I am trying to build a model of the Draper Hotel, Oconomowoc, WI, that was torn down in approx 1970. The hotel had grooved style pillars that came from the Columbian Exposition held in Chicago in approx. 1890. The pillars were approx. 25" in diameter and 21' in ht. In HO this works out to about 0.287" diameter and 2.9" ht. Do you know of a manufacturer of grooved pillars in this approximate size? Have any modelers built a pillar, how? One thought I had was to wrap aluminum roofing material around a dowel, then stretch it to open up, then paint and let the paint fill in the grooves to "round" them out a bit. I've tried this and it works but the pillar is not tapered and it is near impossible to have equal size grooves and to make a set of seven pillars that look alike, and also they would be hard to construct a mold. Any ideas?
I don't know if anything like this is available either in styrene of resin. If you need to scratch build these it can be done by tapering hardwood dowels. 1/4" dowel would be a close for starters. I have done this for tapered booms/ spars, masts etc for ship models. Cut the dowel to a handy working length and work the taper on a power sander (table, disc or inverted belt sander) Years ago I did this by chocking a belt sander in a padded vice jaws. The shaping/ taper would be the easiest portion of this, to simulate the "Fluting" , carefully drag a razor saw down the length of the dowel. After some practice you can gradually allow the saw to run from a 90 degree angle to about 45 degrees to slightly close the fluting spacing as the column tapers. This will give you the "scaled" appearance of groove/ flutes and of coarse will not be perfect at a close inspection. Once satisfied w/ the column it then can be cut to length. But for purposes and the scale once assembled/ painted may suffice. The right no. teeth/ in and the pressure used as well as fine sanding may give you the look of the columns desired.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
You might want to check out wedding cake decorations. Guy at our club used a couple larger ones to do a scratchbuilt passenger station. I think the columns are available in different sizes. Here is a link to show some on a cake: http://www.bakingshop.com/bc/item/wk-4.htm
How many of these columns do you need to make?
I was cleaning out the sink and looked in the medicine cabinet. I saw a bottle of calamine lotion, but the interesting part was the cap. It's "fluted" to provide a better grip. It's too big, of course, and the plastic is too thick and stiff to even consider forming it smaller, but here's one way you could do this:
Get some latex rubber (Woodland Scenics makes it) and paint it all the way around the outside of the cap. You'll have to do 3 or 4 layers. When you've got it built up, cut it off along one line, and flatten it out. Measure off about 3/4 of an inch (pi x D) and cut square edges. Then, roll it up and tape it. Add tape as a cap on one end. Mix up a bit of hydrocal and pour it in the mold. (Make the hydrocal thin so it will pour well. Give it a couple of hours, remove the tape and you should have a fluted column. Repeat as needed. You'll have to stack them to get the height.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
And now for something completely different. How close is this model to the viewer? I'm thinking of getting a picture of the fluting and making a decal. You could apply the decal to smooth 1/4-inch styrene tubing, or even to a painted dowel, and at first glance it would look like a fluted column.
MisterBeasley How many of these columns do you need to make? I was cleaning out the sink and looked in the medicine cabinet. I saw a bottle of calamine lotion, but the interesting part was the cap. It's "fluted" to provide a better grip. It's too big, of course, and the plastic is too thick and stiff to even consider forming it smaller, but here's one way you could do this: Get some latex rubber (Woodland Scenics makes it) and paint it all the way around the outside of the cap. You'll have to do 3 or 4 layers. When you've got it built up, cut it off along one line, and flatten it out. Measure off about 3/4 of an inch (pi x D) and cut square edges. Then, roll it up and tape it. Add tape as a cap on one end. Mix up a bit of hydrocal and pour it in the mold. (Make the hydrocal thin so it will pour well. Give it a couple of hours, remove the tape and you should have a fluted column. Repeat as needed. You'll have to stack them to get the height.
A bit of genius Mr. Beasley. Most real fluted columns are made by stacking individual sections called "drums" to get the desired height. A single piece column would be too heavy and awkward to handle. Each drum gas a slight taper and is a little smaller than the previous to get the tapered column desired.
Joe
Thank you for this suggestion. I have emailed to baking shop to ask for approximate dimensions and where/how to buy. From what I saw on the website they may be too large but maybe I can cut a slice out of them and reconnect the edges and then make a smaller mold.
These are all such great suggestions. Thank you everyone.
The wedding cake pillars are available at AC MOORE's or Michael's crafts stores. They should be avaialble anyplace that sells cake decorating products. ACMoores and Michaels often have 40% off coupons in the sunday paper. I, to, believe they may be too big.
If you are not picky on the fluting of the columns {or lack thereof}, I found these:
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/pls/pls90993.htm
One thing you COULD try:
Buy some styrene sheet "corrugated metal roofing". take something like tinfoil or even try paper and rub it carefully over the corrugations, pressing into the valleys well. Then wrap the tinfoil or paper around a dowel to simulate your fluted columns and paint. Careful not to indent the raised portions! Voila! you have a fluted column!
Just a thought.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Hello Galaxy,
Thank you too for your suggestions. I do want to stay with fluted pillar design. I may give your styrene sheet corrugated metal roofing idea a try. I'll check out the dimensions of the corrugations spacing---it may be that S or O guage material may make for better fluting spacing.
I know most of these suggestions do not provide for a tapered pillar but I don't think that will be noticeable or at least not something I can live with. Modeling is a lot of compromising.
Thanks again.
Oconomowoc Hello Galaxy, Thank you too for your suggestions. I do want to stay with fluted pillar design. I may give your styrene sheet corrugated metal roofing idea a try. I'll check out the dimensions of the corrugations spacing---it may be that S or O guage material may make for better fluting spacing. I know most of these suggestions do not provide for a tapered pillar but I don't think that will be noticeable or at least not something I can live with. Modeling is a lot of compromising. Thanks again.
I meant to put something in about tappering the columns. I don't think it would really be noticeable.
BUT, the "genious" of my idea is that with the paper impressions you could taper it yourself, with the seam towards the back of the column so it isn't seen. HOWEVER, this may not work as gentle fluting may not show either, and greater flutting may show to much.
Try a few sizes of the corrugated roofing plastic to see how big the flutting you want is.
I did a search and came up with HO scale fluted columns at this site:
http://www.modeltraincrossing.com/ssl_ho_parts.htm.
Scroll down about 1/3rd of the list for item numbers 2136-2138. The site offers very few details but there might be something there to suit your needs.
Dave
Sorry - I don't know why the link did not highlight.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critter I did a search and came up with HO scale fluted columns at this site: http://www.modeltraincrossing.com/ssl_ho_parts.htm.
Here's a direct link to the manufacturer's web site:
http://66.241.223.134/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SS2545&Category_Code=&Product_Count=
I've ordered from them, and their products are first class.
hon30critter I did a search and came up with HO scale fluted columns at this site: http://www.modeltraincrossing.com/ssl_ho_parts.htm. Scroll down about 1/3rd of the list for item numbers 2136-2138. The site offers very few details but there might be something there to suit your needs. Dave Sorry - I don't know why the link did not highlight.
Dave, I tried pasting the link and it didn't work. Then it was realized that the period at the end wasn't needed and when that was removed it worked very well. That may be why the link didn't highlight? Just a guess on my part because, while not a pc novice, sometimes this stuff is way over my head.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
I also meant to add that the ideas listed here are just awesome. Some interesting and innovative methods from experienced modelers and while I'm not in the market for the pillars I've learned a lot from this thread.
Here is an update on my search for grooved pillars.
I checked out the item SS2137 from SS Ltd and I attach copy of this correspondence for your information. I also talked to Turner as suggested by SS Ltd but they say their item 2793 O-scale pillars are only 3/16" diameter and are the smooth configuration. I've been waiting for a drawing from Turner for almost a week as I am unsure if I understood them by telephone 423-462-2228. I'm sure they more to do than selling three packages of three pillars at $4.50 per package.
My conclusion to this point is that HO fluted pillars in the 25-30" diameter and 21' in ht are not commercially available. I will explore all of the suggestions from all of our previous discussions. Thank you all for your help.
Harry-I measured our SS2137 pillar/post and it measures as follows:1.81" high (overall)1.25" high (fluted section only)0.140" diameter (fluted section)0.228" diameter (base area)Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be big enough diameter...SS2138 measures:0.80" x .092" (fluted side-3 other sides smooth) x 1.642" tall0.116" square base and topYou might check with Turner Model Works - they carry O scale parts and do have an O Scale - Turned Column Post, 13.5' part number: 2793mplink:http://tmwshop.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_14&products_id=422Turner has many of the old SS LTD 'O' scale parts from when JAKS Industries sold off the O scale division to him.Hope this all helps!PeterSS LTD*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********On 8/1/2011 at 5:38 AM Harry Evans wrote:>Dear Peter,I may have mis-estimated some in width and height of the required pillars. Ithink I could get by with pillars in the width of 25-30" and a height of at aminimum of 21'. In HO that would be 0.287-0.344" width and 2.9' in length. Theoriginal values I gave applied to the original Draper Hall which was fourstories, but I am building it in the post-fire height of 2-stories plus 3rdfloor dormers (which don't pertain to the pillar height).After the fire and the pillar height was reduced it appears that they cut thetop portion from the pillar and kept the wider lower portion for the remainingpillar. This means they ended up with pillars at the base that were 30-40"diameter for a 21' pillar ht, a ratio that is perhaps unusual. What I'm leadingto is if my pillar is to be 21' then a more common diameter would be 25-30" fora pillar of that ht.So...I'm wondering if I could consider your part number 2137 for my pillars. Your description states the height of 13.5'. My thought here is I could stackand cut to size two pcs to make my required 21', but that sort of depends on ifthey are tapered (which I could rework with filing/sanding) and of a diameter of0.287" which is my minimum near-base diameter but maybe I could even accept astill slightly lesser diameter. Does this sound reasonable and would your partnumber 2137 suffice as I describe? What is the near-base and near-top diameterof part number 2137?I would take the same approach to rework of part number 2138 which we've neverdiscussed as I had intended to fabricate a couple of these for another area ofthe model. Can you tell me the square dimension of part number 2138?I'm sorry to take so much of your time on this but I really appreciate yourhelp. Thank you again for taking a little more time.Sincerely,Harry Evans
Ocono-
you could also maybe skip my idea of using the paper and or tin foil, and just maybe shape the corrugated styrene "sheet metal roofing" around into a pillar shape, tapering as it goes towards the top and glue carefully.
It may not wrap around good enough, and you may have to go back to the tin foil/paper idea to press it in the "flutings".
Remember also that tapering is so subtle it is almost inperceptable to the naked eye and the naked eye is looking at something FAR LARGER than itself, and form a view far away {straight on} or from far below {looking up}. YOur model will be seen closer, so the tapering may look exagerated on your model to our eye.
Good luck with your project.
I have completed the model of Draper Hall. I think it turned out very well and if anyone would like to see a picture please email me directly and I'll send one to you. My email is harry_e@att.net. I am copying a one-page Technique sheet I made on how the pillars were constructed. Thank you to all of you who made suggestions regarding my project. Following is the technique:
Technique for Making Fluted Pillars: On this model the pillars are 28.5” diameter in HO scale and the grooves are approximately 2.5” across. Other diameters could be similarly made in HO or other scales.
1. On my pillars the round pillars begin by cutting 5/16” styrene tubing to final length; square pillars were made from 5/16” square basswood. Note: Final length here refers to the length of the styrene or basswood---a portion of this length is inserted in a hole in the top decorative piece of the pillar assembly. The height of the final pillar assembly with top and bottom pieces will actually be greater than the length of styrene or basswood depending on the top decorative piece or bottom piece you choose for your pillar.
2. For grooves I used K&S .030” #16130(an alternative brand is Williams Bros. .030 item#6 56780 600000 0) corrugated aluminum which is first cut to desired height and circumferential length, then wrapped and super glued to the pillar stock. I found that there is a better adherence of the aluminum to styrene if you rough up the styrene tube somewhat with coarse sandpaper. If you are modeling a larger scale you may consider K&S .060” #16132 to achieve a wider groove.
3. Aluminum fluting is then primed with Floquil Primer #F110009. It is best not to use Polyscale primer here as Polyscale is thicker and fills in too much of the groove. Polyscale primer is also zinc chromate (orange) in color and therefore takes a heavier top coat to cover; again this fills in more of the grooving.
4. Steps 5-9 apply to round pillars, steps 10-13 apply to round and square pillars.
5. The rings I used for the round pillars start with what is known as “back up” rings in the hydraulics industry (used to prevent extruding of o-rings on valve assemblies due to the high pressure of hydraulic systems). They’re made of Teflon and come in many O.D, I.D., and cross-section dimension sizes. They can be “solid” which is a continuous ring, or they can be “split” which means they are cut through so they can be opened up by spreading the ends. If you follow my technique solid back-up rings are required.
6. Because all back-up rings have square corners the edges need to be rounded to be realistic pillar rings. I used a piece of 5/16” styrene tube and chucked it in a drill press. I then used sand paper to taper the exposed end of the tube. I then removed the tube, slid on a solid back-up ring, and then turned the tube 180 degrees and inserted it back into the drill press taper end first. Press lightly on the ring to seat it on the tapered tube.
7. Turn on the drill press and using a hobby knife carefully “round” the corners on the rings and one can also reduce the O.D. this way if desired. (Note: when rounding the second corner it is necessary to remove the ring, then turn it 180 degrees, then place it back on the tapered tube).
8. On my pillars I have three different rings but all begin as the same back-up. A large one at the bottom is round on one edge only and after installing lays flat at the very bottom of the pillar. The ring just above it and lying against the fluting is rounded on both corners and is also the smallest in O.D. The ring resting at the top of the fluting of the pillar is also rounded at both corners but the O.D. is close to the original O.D. of the back-up ring.
9. The three different rings are now glued to the styrene/corrugated tubes (made in step 3).
10. To make the top decorative pillar piece one can carve masters and make molds and castings, or one can fashion a different style top piece. I have seen some top pieces that are two-three stacked pieces of different square dimensions (as though different size boxes are stacked upside down from largest to smallest).
11. The bottom piece for each pillar is nothing more than a square of styrene or basswood of the width and height required for your particular pillar.
12. For square pillars the rings are bass wood. On my pillars they are all made using 1/32” x 3/64”.
13. Once the entire pillar assemblies are complete they can be painted a Reefer White color.
Good Luck! It’s easier than it sounds. Harry Evans 262-200-2194
I wish I had seen this thread when it was first posted. This is the perfect type of object to be 3D printed. It would take about 5 minutes to design it in the computer. Send the file off to some place like Shapeways or Moddler.com and within a week your columns arrive in the mail.
Steve S