Because of the 40% off sale on magazines, a lot of that merchandise went fast. Saturday was very busy. The transportation section for railway books of any kind were hard to find. Their collection of CD's or DVD's were a mixed up mess. Sales may last about a month?
Some sites may be reborn managed by Barnes & Noble or Books a Million. It may not matter if most books come via Amazon or Ebay.
Barnes and Noble encourages the very behavior about which you are complaining. In fact, if you have a Nook and bring it into the store you can read any book in their e-book library for 30 minutes for free. If you don't buy it you can return another day and read it for another 30 minutes, etc.
If you buy an e-book and have a friend who also has a Nook, you can even lend many of their books to that person for 14 days.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
MAbruce,My post was in reference to cheapskate skinflint Borders customers, not my own customers. Specifically, I am talking about those "customers" (and I use that term loosely) who read entire books without paying for them. What would you call them? I don't have any of these types of customers because when I have someone in the store that's trying to read a whole book (a very, very rare happenstance, BTW), I go over after 30 minutes or so and ask them as politely as you please, "Hi! Can I help you find anything?" And I smile nice, too...but my gaze might drift down to the open book in their hand and I might cringe if they've broken the spine. Around 99% of the time, they get the hint and either buy the book or put it back on the shelf. We are a bookstore, not a library.
For clarity, I'm not talking about the browsing shopper, or people who can't find anything to read after hours of looking, or even the people who come into a store and loudly proclaim to their children in tow that, "We aren't buying anything here so don't even ask me!" (my smart-aleck internal voice usually asks why did they bother to come in at all?)
Seriously, would any other business encourage this sort of freeloading behavior? Even those that have extremely liberal return policies like Radio Shack does not actively encourage people to rip them off. For example, many metal detectors are sold on Fridays and returned on Mondays with sand in the cracks yet reported as non-functional...yet work fine in the store. How many times will they allow that to happen, week after week? And at the very least Radio Shack can play with the money for the weekend while the metal detector is out on the beach. But at Borders, these "customers" don't even do that. They literally pay nothing while probably damaging the merchandise. If I'm a "bad guy" for calling them out for that, then so be it.
Andre,If you use a public library and you pay taxes then you're not a cheakskate. You are paying indirectly, but you're still paying your share to have the library in your town and possibly interconnected to other libraries through book exchange programs. As I tell people who don't understand why we need money to survive as a retail business ("What do you mean I have to pay?"), our bookstore does not get tax money. Instead, we pay taxes just like you.
The other comparisons in your post are way off. If doing your own gardening, plumbing, painting, woodworking, etc. yourself is your comparison to a Borders "customer" reading books for free, then you should also be writing your own books and then reading them. To put the woodworking example into what happens at Borders, imagine you have a dresser you'd like to build. Bring your own wood, fasteners, and stain to Home Depot or Sears, then use their tools to make your dresser right there in the store. Does that seem fair? Hey, it's not like you damaged the tools, you just borrowed them, right?
Paul A. Cutler III
J. Rob, what has this got to do with any government?
It is about a book store chain going under and getting some railroad books at a close our price. No government conspiracy no matter what you wish to believe.
Please do not do this again.
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
It is about a book store chain going under and getting some railroad books at a close out price. No government conspiracy no matter what you wish to believe.
CTValleyRR Second, MBA's aren't always good for companies. TIME ran a piece a couple of weeks ago about how the MBA Finance types are killing companies by focusing on profit, not product. Speaking as a Finance type with an MBA, I have to say that I agree.... to a point. A healthy, symbiotic relationship between bean counters and product people must exist for any company to thrive. A company MUST be product and customer driven, or it fails to innovate and attract new business. However, left to their own devices, product people tend to over-optimize a product, and would never make any money were it not for someone smacking them in the back of the head and saying, "We've got to make some money to stay in business."
Second, MBA's aren't always good for companies. TIME ran a piece a couple of weeks ago about how the MBA Finance types are killing companies by focusing on profit, not product. Speaking as a Finance type with an MBA, I have to say that I agree.... to a point. A healthy, symbiotic relationship between bean counters and product people must exist for any company to thrive. A company MUST be product and customer driven, or it fails to innovate and attract new business. However, left to their own devices, product people tend to over-optimize a product, and would never make any money were it not for someone smacking them in the back of the head and saying, "We've got to make some money to stay in business."
Good point...
Before there is a general bemoaning of the image centered internetz and the general decline of literacy let us consider the "coffee table books"...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
andrechapelon Fortunately, he left out the biggest cheapskates of all, those who haunt public libraries to get our fill of the written word without having to pay anything.Andre
Fortunately, he left out the biggest cheapskates of all, those who haunt public libraries to get our fill of the written word without having to pay anything.Andre
I'm one of those who haunt the public library and my former library in Liverpool NY was an excellent one with both MR and RMC magazines for me to read, as well as a great selection of books and movies etc. I paid property taxes for many years btw which were very high 5% so I did pay for that service and used it. I"ve since moved to Northern VA and the public library in Centreville is NOTHING in comparison. A tiny selection of magazines, hardly any movies, etc. *sigh*
As cheap skates go, I'm cheap because I have to be to survive, not because I'm evil or tight fisted, Some peole talk like many have pockets full of money to patronize LHS and subsidize that way of life as well as many other "worthy" causes. Well, I was taught by my depression era parents to try to live within my means, and right now I'm barely breaking even, and just paying for the basics like food, auto expenses, phone, rent etc, and an occasional model train. We even use the churches clothing ministry because the cost of living is so high and income is limited. Yep, cheap skate is necessary as a way of life for many of us.
Back on topic,
I'm sad to see the former way of life passing away and books and magazines falling out of use. We seem to be quickly approaching an ear like show in Star Trek the Next Generation where Capt Piccard cherished his occasional hard copy books, because reading electronic books had been the standard way for many years. I guess Boarders closing is a sign of the times. I wonder when MR magazine will finally go electronic or worse?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/07/23/2477619/an-independent-bookstore-that.html
Rob:
While we are not always successful, we try to keep politics out of our forum discussions.
MAbruce: Paul3: As a family member of and a worker for a small, independant bookstore owner, might I recommend that people try looking for one near them? There's still a lot of us around...for now... Anyways, a special shout out to all browsing cheapskates and not to mention all the Kindle and Nook readers for putting 10,000+ people out of work. Congratulations! (not that I'm bitter or anything...) Double sigh. Paul A. Cutler III So this is your marketing strategy to encourage customers to shop at the independents? First ask them to try you out and then turn around and insult them for being cheapskates and putting people out of work? Yikes.
Paul3: As a family member of and a worker for a small, independant bookstore owner, might I recommend that people try looking for one near them? There's still a lot of us around...for now... Anyways, a special shout out to all browsing cheapskates and not to mention all the Kindle and Nook readers for putting 10,000+ people out of work. Congratulations! (not that I'm bitter or anything...) Double sigh. Paul A. Cutler III
As a family member of and a worker for a small, independant bookstore owner, might I recommend that people try looking for one near them? There's still a lot of us around...for now...
Anyways, a special shout out to all browsing cheapskates and not to mention all the Kindle and Nook readers for putting 10,000+ people out of work. Congratulations! (not that I'm bitter or anything...) Double sigh.
So this is your marketing strategy to encourage customers to shop at the independents? First ask them to try you out and then turn around and insult them for being cheapskates and putting people out of work? Yikes.
Fortunately, he left out the biggest cheapskates of all, those who haunt public libraries to get our fill of the written word without having to pay anything.
As cheapskates go, I'm pretty high up in the hierarchy. I don't know how many gardeners are out of work because there are those of us who do our own lawns and gardens, but I would imagine it's quite a few. Then there are those of us who absolutely won't call a plumber until we're absolutely positive that the job is beyond our own skills. Painters curse the wife and myself because we do our own painting. My wife just refinished a pair of dressers, probably putting someone out of work. We rarely eat out, thus killing the job market for a considerable number of food service people.
The only thing that prevents us from being evil incarnate is that we don't grow our own food.
However, we're considering it.
Andre
The hobby's not dead, it's just pining for the fjords.
I have to agree. If we would stop scratch building and buying kits so we could save money and just buy the $40.00 ready to run items we would all be better off, yeah right. I do as many things myself as I can so my money goes farther than it otherwise would. Products and services will remain in business as long as they are a value to their customers. Trying to support someone who can not compete in the market place will only result in failure all around. Folks this is a sign of the times. We now have a poor economic outlook due to the policies our government has been dumping on us for years, not just a few years but decades. Our tax burden has gone up steadily for years and years as has the demand for our tax revenue in the form of hand outs and bailouts has continually increased.
The pendulum will begin to swing back and we will eventually see recovery and the stronger companies will survive and begin to expand. Some of the problems ,book stores for example, face is the quality of their products vs the cost of the products. Magazines and Newspapers have in many cases dropped in both quantity and quality a great deal over the last few years so the customer no longer finds the product of value and stops buying. Some folks subscribe so the periodical arrives at their house and they no longer go to the store to buy them.
I miss the book stores and some of the products as both my wife and I as well as our children are avid readers. I also loved the public library as well after all they are also customers for the publishing industry.
Did not mean to get off topic but things will eventually get back on track when the folks that have been living on handouts from the rest of us go back to work, our government stops trying to guarantee equal results instead of equal opportunity, and the taxes reflect our government getting the money it needs to do things it should instead of redistribution of wealth.
I hope all those folks can find jobs and continue to be productive members of our country My best wishes to all of them.
MAbruce Paul3: As a family member of and a worker for a small, independant bookstore owner, might I recommend that people try looking for one near them? There's still a lot of us around...for now... Anyways, a special shout out to all browsing cheapskates and not to mention all the Kindle and Nook readers for putting 10,000+ people out of work. Congratulations! (not that I'm bitter or anything...) Double sigh. Paul A. Cutler III So this is your marketing strategy to encourage customers to shop at the independents? First ask them to try you out and then turn around and insult them for being cheapskates and putting people out of work? Yikes.
Paul3 As a family member of and a worker for a small, independant bookstore owner, might I recommend that people try looking for one near them? There's still a lot of us around...for now... Anyways, a special shout out to all browsing cheapskates and not to mention all the Kindle and Nook readers for putting 10,000+ people out of work. Congratulations! (not that I'm bitter or anything...) Double sigh. Paul A. Cutler III
I actually have several thoughts on this subject.
First, Borders was always a great place to go browse.... but i didn't often buy things, so I'm partially to blame for their downfall. It's a shame though. We have two Borders near us, which was probably oversaturation on their part (although one started as a Waldenbooks); both will be folding up soon.
Third, I do try to patronize local, small bookstores. We bought the last 4 Harry Potter novels by pre-order through them. The problem is, beyond the current NYT Bestsellers, most of what he has are classics and some oddball stuff. No mass market stuff, no special interest sections (transportation, history). I know, the carrying cost of that inventory must be enormous, so what can I expect in a town of 7500.
And finally, if the growth of e-books and on-line reading is encouraging more people to read books (rather than blogs and forums), then that's a good thing.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Living at what for the next few weeks is still the heart of the Borders chain, this has been pretty rotten for quite a few years.
I started shopping there when it was a single store across two storefronts on the edge of the University of Michigan campus, about 25 years ago. I've had about a dozen friends and acquaintances who have been laid off from good jobs there as the company has desperately tried to shrink to a sustainable size over recent years.
Someone pointed out that Borders was doing all right until the "grow, grow, GROW!" crowd took over. Having watched this from very nearby, that is an accurate reading. They did well for a while, but since the management was now loaded with people who knew how to move money around for the sake of moving money around and no understanding of the changes taking place in the actual business that generated the storefront revenue, they were caught completely off guard. It was proof that having the most highly-educated MBAs running the show doesn't mean anything if nobody is left who understands the underlying business.
Once Borders is gone, all we'll have left in its hometown of Ann Arbor for (new) bookstores are one reasonably solid, if small, independent shop and a Barnes & Noble. That's in a town of about 110,000.
Now, in this town we're known for adopting technology quickly, but there's a LONG way to go before there's anywhere near as much available digitally as in hardcopy. And some of us simply refuse to take a laptop or other gadget out to the lake.
'course for train books, we can just go to the hobby shop, right?
Well, Rider's Hobby in Ypsilanti is closing on July 30, after 65 years in business. Not much of a surprise, really, as they'd been in a inventory-starvation death spiral for a couple of years.
Nearby Michigan Model Train Center is in its last months as the family winds down operations following the death of owner Skip McDonald in May. When MMTC closes, that'll be it for hobby shops in Washtenaw County that carry train stuff.
I've always been more interested in convenience than in chasing the cheapest price. If I want or need something for a project I'm working on, I'm not really interested in waiting for mail order- the project will just end up on the pile of other stalled projects. 'guess I just have to cut back on the projects.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
This would make a good movie. It should star people like Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks...
Paul3 As a family member of and a worker for a small, independant bookstore owner, might I recommend that people try looking for one near them? ...................................Paul A. Cutler III
As a family member of and a worker for a small, independant bookstore owner, might I recommend that people try looking for one near them? ...................................Paul A. Cutler III
Paul, your posting struck a cord with me and I have been searching around both the web and the good old fashioned yellow pages and have stumbled upon an independent book store not too far from here that I did not previously know about. I am planning on popping in some time this week.
So many on here are firm advocates of supporting the LHS, and this really is no different except that reading, being a much larger market than the MRR is subject to much larger on-line competition.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
chutton01 also took several dates to the Coffe Shop there - but that's not really railroad related...
also took several dates to the Coffe Shop there - but that's not really railroad related...
better start making your dates railroad related ! ! !
The St. Francis Consolidated Railroad of the Colorado Rockies
Denver, Colorado
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
blownout cylinder Sigh...I'm with Paul on this. There seems to be a commercial real estate melt down going on...with Borders out..there will be even more giant empty buildings to fill with what? Dollar Giants? Meh....
Sigh...I'm with Paul on this.
There seems to be a commercial real estate melt down going on...with Borders out..there will be even more giant empty buildings to fill with what? Dollar Giants? Meh....
Well maybe there's a bright side... think about it... let's form a new MRR club and rent one of those shells.... 20,000 sq ft layout anyone ???
John
Unfortunately, there are no book stores in my town. The big box stores have a book section, the thrift stores have a book section, some of the antique dealers sell books, etc. But no dedicated book shops. There were a couple that showed up on web searches when we first moved to town almost 2 years ago, but they were already gone when we went looking for them.
I miss them along with the hobby stores and independent hardware stores.
Paul
There is here at least 3 independent book stores that cater to the browsing market. Plus there are numerous used book stores that have mrr sections here. Try to search those ones out in your community..and support them.
slammin I guess I'd better jump in before this thread is locked. Independent booksellers are important to a free society. When they all disappear, the big boys and online sellers will dictate what we can read by only offering books they want us to read. Many obscure books won't be published. Like they LHS and other small independent business, the dollars spent there usually stay in the area, versus going off to a hugh corporation. BUY LOCAL!
I guess I'd better jump in before this thread is locked. Independent booksellers are important to a free society. When they all disappear, the big boys and online sellers will dictate what we can read by only offering books they want us to read. Many obscure books won't be published. Like they LHS and other small independent business, the dollars spent there usually stay in the area, versus going off to a hugh corporation. BUY LOCAL!
Don't get me wrong, as I enjoy my library of printed railroad books, but I believe ultimately digital publishing will actually increase the number of obscure books offered as digital is the perfect medium for small run books.
I agree also, support the brick and mortar book stores. Has anyone noticed how boring shopping is becoming since the internet?
Jay
Paul3 Anyways, a special shout out to all browsing cheapskates and not to mention all the Kindle and Nook readers for putting 10,000+ people out of work. Congratulations! (not that I'm bitter or anything...) Double sigh.
Actually, the nook created jobs. Depending on the size of the store, B&N hired at least one full time person (outside hires too) as the lead salesperson for the nook. The outside hire thing made a lot of us grouchy and was one of the many reasons I left B&N.
As a family member of and a worker for a small, independant bookstore owner, might I recommend that people try looking for one near them? There's still a lot of us around...for now. Borders and Barnes & Noble are not the only bookstores that exist. Many of us small timers are hanging on just because we love books, not because it makes us wealthy. Just do a Google search for bookstore for your local area, and you might find one of us just under your nose. Sort of like that time our own local town newspaper lauded the arrival of Starbucks, and opined that all this town needed was a small, independant bookstore to make living here a complete experience. My mom wrote a letter to the editor to ask, "What are we? Chopped liver?" At that time, we'd been in the town for 15 years, (and even carried that same local newspaper) and their editors didn't know we existed! Sigh...
The Borders bankruptcy was pretty much inevitable. I had hoped though that they would be able to pull it out of the fire and restructure it somehow. Not surprised though that nobody bought 'em though. They have the same infrastructure in all the same places as their competitors, and since Amazon is pretty much online-only, they're everywhere and nowhere, and have no use for the overhead / baggage it would drag along with it. And they'll probably end up making a buck off the books one way or the other in any case.
Welcome to the new age.
If anybody ever read the "Colossus" series of Sci-fi books there's a lot of similarity between these Mega-stores and Online Giants and Colossus-- but, if you read the books, you know that Colossus was able to finally be defeated.
"Forbin, we are coming..."
As I understand it, Borders was doing well when it was run mostly by 'book-lovers' (overgeneralization, I know), but faltered when taken over by MBA management (Waldenbook merger, maybe??? - not sure when - oh wait, here from wiki: Borders was acquired in 1992 by Kmart) - for one example, IIRC when they implemented their website around the turn of the century, they neglected to add an option to have the user buy books and have them shipped to the nearest Borders for pick-up, which many people wanted.I don't recall the local Borders (which closed earlier this year) really having much of a selection of Railroad perodicals and reference (their Transportation selection was always rather weak). I do remember spending some time there reading (they had an excellent Computer section back then - and yes, I brought books there too so I wasn't a lounge leech), also took several dates to the Coffe Shop there - but that's not really railroad related...