I couldn't find the CN22 spec sheet either. One of the sellers said it ran at 9,800 RPM. I don't know what the rated voltage is, though. The EN22 is a proven motor in some of the highest quality HO locomotives, and since it's $5 less expensive, I would still recommend it over the others.
If you'd rather have a more direct replacement, NWSL has a motor that's the same size as the one used in the Rivarossi Big Boy, Challenger, and 4-8-4. I don't know how much torque it has, but I suspect it should be enough. http://shop.osorail.com/product.sc?productId=976&categoryId=55
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I am currently in the process if re motoring a Rivorossi 4-8-4, and got a NWSL motor similar to the canon motor. The only thing is, I kinda want something that I can put a flywheel on..... I modified the motor mount by trimming off the uprights the the motor screws to, then I fashioned a piece of sheet metal and secured it to the existing mount with a pair of 2/56 screws. then I screwed the motor to the new mount with 2 more 2.56 screws. The shaft is too small for the existing plastic drive shaft, so I bought a piece of round aluminum at home depot, and cut it to length then drilled holes in each end to match the shafts on the motor and worm gear. It is a little loose, so I am planning on drilling a hole in the side and threading it for a set screw to hold it in place.
RJ
"Something hidden, Go and find it. Go and look behind the ranges, Something lost behind the ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go." The Explorers - Rudyard Kipling
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i can't find a spec sheet on the cn22
I would go with the EN22, but the DN22 would also work (it's the 3-pole version of the 5-pole EN22). I just checked the spec sheet at Canon's website, and the EN is rated to run at 7,000 RPM. Your Challenger should run at around 70 scale MPH with that, which is the top speed of the prototype. The CN22 at 9,800 RPM would give you a speed of close to 100, and the DN22 is made to run at either 6,800 or 8,200 RPM.
pig snot or bull frog snot?
darth, which canon motor should i get? there is a en 22, dn 22 & a cn 22. of the three the cn 22 has the highest rpm, & i think that would match the rivarossi motor better, just stronger hopefully.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390081330064&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT is that a fare price?
Have you tried using "Pig Snot" on your drivers? When I first heard about that stuff I honestly thought it was someone's idea of a joke but after visiting with a well known model railroader who was testing it out for a review we were both amazed at the difference in tractive effort. He performed his test on a BLI Light Mile I believe and the locomotive was about to increase it's tractive effort by what we calculated almost 30%. I picked some up at the LHS on the way home and and applied it to my Trix Big Boy and was able to add another 30 cars to a normal 80 car load.
I think what your experiencing is (loss of power after some time) normal for an open framed or sqew wound motor as they tend to heat up more so then can motors do. my replacement can motor of choice is the Helix Humper.
As far as standard iron core motors go, the Canons are some of the best. I can't think of one that I would say is better. The speed and torque should be just right for what you need, and they're very smooth and quiet running.
what would you suggest for a motor that would be better than the canon?
That motor would also work very well. Faulhaber coreless motors are some of the best in the world for model railroad use. Even so, I would recommend the Canon motor first. In the case of Rivarossi's steam engines, there wouldn't be enough difference in performance to justify the extra cost. Coreless motors really shine when they're in top quality mechanisms, but the mid-range quality of old Rivarossi would pretty much defeat the benefits of a coreless motor.
Putting a motor in the boiler would require cutting out a large section of weight. It's worth it to some people, but I would rather keep it in the cab as long as you don't mind the appearance. Cutting the mount like you mentioned will help quite a bit, but you'll have to find an alternate way of mounting the motor. RTV 747 sealant would work well, or you could make a new bracket.
Darth, i was going to remove the motor mount & push the motor forward so that non of the motor is hanging out. would this motor be any better? it is almost the same size as the factory motor. i just don't know jack about motors. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150625354967&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT anyone have a picture of one installed in the boiler? there just doesn't seem to be much room in my challenger for it. a big boy probably has more room.
Allegheny 2-6-6-6, it's running fine now, it just needs more pulling power. it also seems the longer i run it the slower it gets. not by much, but a little.
Haven't been on the forum most of the summer model railroading's been set aside for out door chore not fun stuff chores, that being said I had to comment on your post. Short and simple DON'T this is coming from a guy who had it done maybe 6 or 7 years a go and the motor is only part of the problems with the old AHM Rivarossi loco's. Your money would be better spent on purchasing a new Hornby BigBoy which is DCC ready as well as having newer wheels flanges. One of the big drawback of the old R/R AHM stuff is the small wheel flanges. I used to have 25 of those clunkers on my old 50'x100' UP layout and there wasn't a single one of them that would pass a frog without a problem. The fella that helped me build the layout and myself tried everything we could think of, went as far as hand filling all of the points on every turnout and it made things some what better but not fool proof. Purchased a Bowser kit and assembling it, I could not believe the difference. I then purchase several Tenshado Brass Big boys and also was convinced my old Rivarossi's were now destined for the side track. Of course Bowser kits are few and far between and Tenshado Brass or most other brass engines are out of reach for most these days but I have to say that the New Generation Hornby Big Boy is a good buy for the buck. My two cents worth
The Canon motor runs at about the same RPM as the Rivarossi motor (about 8,000), but has much more torque. It's also longer than the Rivarossi motor, so it will stick out of the cab pretty far. If you don't mind that, you won't need the NWSL instructions. Those are mainly for people who want the motor in the boiler instead.
The 1533 flat motor is also a pretty good option, but the Canon motor is better quality. It should still serve you well if you don't feel like spending the extra $5.
The round Mabuchi motor is way too big and fast to fit any Rivarossi steam engine. It's made more for hair dryers and small vacuums, or high speed RC cars.
No matter which motor you choose, I would highly recommend getting NWSL universals. I used them for my Rivarossi Big Boy, and they run a whole lot smoother than those cheap plastic tubes that come stock.
North West Short Line has a tutorial on repowering a Rivarossi/AHM Big Boy.
http://www.nwsl.com/tutorials/repowering-the-rivarossi-ahm-ho-gauge-4-8-8-4-bigboy-etc-articulateds-c1970s80s
i'm wondering if any of you has ever remotored an ahm challenger or big boy? i know it won't be hard, but i don't know crap about motors. FYI it has the motor in the cab.
I just bought an old ahm rivarossi challenger. It is beautiful & runs OK, but it doesn't have much power. i want more power without losing top end speed. if it gets faster that's fine too. which motor would you recommend? does anyone know what kind of rpm the factory rivarossi motor turns? i'll post a few links to some motors. tell me what you like & why.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Flat-can-Canon-motor-has-5-skewed-poles-high-power-/360334031988?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53e594fc74
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360375190259&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120742183778&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT