BRAKIE A word about those old line conductors most knew how to railroad. and when rules could be safely bent...As long as all went well the railroad turned a blind eye but,if things went wrong there was a day of reckoning and if there was no serious damage then a wink and a slap on the hand since most division superintendents started in train service and knew exactly how that incident happen..
A word about those old line conductors most knew how to railroad. and when rules could be safely bent...As long as all went well the railroad turned a blind eye but,if things went wrong there was a day of reckoning and if there was no serious damage then a wink and a slap on the hand since most division superintendents started in train service and knew exactly how that incident happen..
Anyone asking how things were done years ago (up to maybe the late 1970s or so?) ought to keep the above in mind. A lot of those old bosses would overlook a lot as long as the work was getting done and nobody was getting hurt and there wasn't too much equipment getting torn up. One other thing: Don't ever try to lie to them.
DSO17 Another thing to consider about leaving the caboose on the main is that under SOME old manual block rules, a train had to continuously occupy a block to keep its authority. If the train left the block, it would have to get permission to re-enter the block. By leaving the cab (properly displaying markers) out on the main, there could be no question of continuing to occupy the block. Now, somebody's going to say that if you took your whole train into an industrial track and left the mainline switch open (lined for the industry) you'd still be occuping the main. That might be strictly true, but I think most old conductors would rather have left the cab out there. So it might depend on where the train was.
Another thing to consider about leaving the caboose on the main is that under SOME old manual block rules, a train had to continuously occupy a block to keep its authority. If the train left the block, it would have to get permission to re-enter the block. By leaving the cab (properly displaying markers) out on the main, there could be no question of continuing to occupy the block.
Now, somebody's going to say that if you took your whole train into an industrial track and left the mainline switch open (lined for the industry) you'd still be occuping the main. That might be strictly true, but I think most old conductors would rather have left the cab out there.
So it might depend on where the train was.
You was in your work zone and the protecting signals displayed a absolute stop since the block was occupied.
Another thing the caboose markers made have been nothing but a red flag in the coupler.
Some times there may have been cars behind the caboose with a red flag in the coupler.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
i was poking fun at the 'era' decision with the references to radios and such. modern railroading is nothing like the good-olden-days (before my time).
the decision to detach the caboose or hang onto it depends on what era the modeler is depicting and what type of train control is in effect. these factors are not described as 'givens' in the article.
modern railroading is nothing but safety, safety, safety and a bunch of rules to keep you and the equipment safe. this switching move can take 15-20 minutes (depending on the length of the siding) without regard to the rules. when following all the rules required by NS and the company officers, this switch would take minimum 1 1/2 hours. no kidding!
the original poster asked how to do the switch and several correct answers were given. i am thinking of current railroad rules required by the carrier and the FRA. we all have different ideas of how to railroad influenced by when and where we worked for the railroad. different eras and locations followed different rules. no answer is wrong for this switching move and we are bickering over the little stuff. i'd rather have fun running my trains than defending my opinion.
that reminds me, i'm going down to the basement to pound a few more nails in the framing on my 1800sf empire. PM if you want to help. food and beverage of your choice is included; airfare not included. LOL
Wazzy,As far as the work limits that was usually within mileposts so we was good to go with block signal protection.
The reason we didn't cut the caboose is the conductors felt it was a unnecessary move that took time we usually didn't have-remember the DS had trains to run including passenger trains and a local was nothing more then a necessary evil in the way-"Get your work done so you can clear up!" was the cry.
On short locals we wasn't above kicking the pick up into the train to save time and when necessary we would make a flying switch..
As far as radios..On the PRR/PC 90% of the time we used hand signals and later on when I worked on the C&O under Chessie and later CSX we used radios 80% of the time.
With all the new rules,belly packs and such I don't think I would like railroading today since it hampers railroading.
if the train is heading in one direction without returning later on, one must consider what type of track authority they have: a proceed or a work between as determined by the specific timetable or dispatcher.
with a proceed, leaving the caboose cut off on the main to the left, prior to the runaround (with this track example), is required. the crew would be making a return move and be legal when on the main anywhere left of the westend runaround switch. if the caboose is moved with the car exchange, the train will be occupying the mainline making a reverse move when on the main anywhere left of the westend runaround switch; unathorized with a proceed track authority.
with a work between, and within the train's work between limits, the caboose can be moved anywhere with the car exchange without issues.
however, back in the days of cabooses, the caboose was used as a marker for the rear of the train and established the boundry (left side in this case) the train was using. since there is a caboose in the equation, i must assume the era is before train crew radios, 2 man crews, cell phones, i-net, fuel injection, i-pads, play station, computers and color tv.
LOL
Thank you all, gentlemen! Wazzy, thanks especially for the real-world description. Makes perfect sense now that I have the right picture in mind... just hadn't thought about pushing the yellow car ahead of the right switch.
And wow, cacole, that's a cool website with the shunting puzzles. My track-planning interest might give me the boost I need to study those. Usually when I try thought puzzles my reactions are (1) "No way is this possible" and then (2) after I give up and peek at the answer "Duh! I'm an idiot..."
Dean
Back when cabooses were used for cooking, sharing with the engine crew would usually ensure smooth couplings.
While they were not indestructible, the old caboose stoves would take a lot of abuse. Come to think of it, everything on the railroad had to take a lot of abuse, especially the men.
bulldog_fan I get how the locomotive can pick up the red car and add it to the rear of the train. But what sequence of moves lets it get behind--rather than in front of--the yellow car?
I get how the locomotive can pick up the red car and add it to the rear of the train. But what sequence of moves lets it get behind--rather than in front of--the yellow car?
Or, uncouple the yellow car, crank up the repulsorlifts, float the yellow car over the locomotive and couple to the front of the locomotive as shown.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
First in my day I will ask what coffee? Or do you mean the coffee in our thermos bottles?
As far as embers that wasn't much of a concern after all we avoid making high impact joints..
Most of the old line conductors I worked with knew how to railroad and get the job done in the most efficient manner and would ensure the facing point setouts would be in the best location-usually by the caboose...A lot of times we put the pickups in the middle of the train so they would be out of the way.
if the train length is longer than the distance between the siding switches, you will need to cut off the 'excess' length prior to the first (left) switch. modern trains do not have a caboose, but holding onto the caboose during these coupling moves might spill the coffee pot or knock a few embers from the stove onto the floor. i would leave the caboose out of the switching move.
For even more switching puzzle fun, there's a web site in England dedicated solely to this topic:
http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/
Dean,Back in the day we would not uncouple the caboose..We would simply couple on the caboose and do the work or we would not bother and make the switch on the return trip.That would be the decision of the conductor and the majority of conductors on the turns I worked with would make the switch on the return since its easier and faster.
You see there was no need to do unnecessary work especially if you are tying up the main line.
Great explanation Wazzzy,
So simple when I think about it.
What length train would you do that series of moves with?
Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)
in the real world, this is an actual move i make everyday. cut the caboose off PRIOR to the left runaround switch and cut your train off on the mainline between the run round switches. bring the engine back through the right side crossover and onto the runaround. grab the red car from the customer and drag it on the runaround to the left. get on the main and couple it to the rear of the train (whats on the mainline). shove it all forward until the yellow car is past the right side switch. cut it (the yellow car) off on the mainline and drag your train back between the left and right switches. bring the engine, no cars, through the runaround and back onto the main coupling onto the yellow car. drag the yellow car back into the runaround and spot it at the customer. move the engines back onto the main using the right side crossover and back up and couple to your train; don't forget to get the caboose!
NS conductor......next question??
Hello all. After a few decades of model railroading dormancy, and now most recently a few years of acquiring way more model trains than I'll ever realistically need, I'm pondering some layout design possibilities--so I'm reading with interest David Popp's article on Switching Fun in the May 2011 MR. But I can't figure out the runaround switching diagram shown on page 31 of that issue, copied here:
The red car was originally on the facing-point spur waiting to be picked up, and the yellow car was originally the first car behind the locomotive in the train. I get how the locomotive can pick up the red car and add it to the rear of the train. But what sequence of moves lets it get behind--rather than in front of--the yellow car?
Thanks...