blownout cylinder That's the thing of it...you might as well look at the hobby as something to do...it sure beats psychiatrist's prices!!
That's the thing of it...you might as well look at the hobby as something to do...it sure beats psychiatrist's prices!!
That's Barry, always optimistic.
OPTIMISM: It's what keeps you from standing naked on the roof with a deer rifle.
At an NMRA convention
Andre
To me the glass is only half full if I am filling it. It is only half empty if I am emptying it. It depends on what I am doing with the contents of the glass. I have never taken that statement to be a "philosopy on life" or a "way of looking at things".
I have a small hobby budget and it is what it is.
I buy Bachamann DCC OnBoard locos to run on my Bachmann EZ COmmand DCC system because that is what i can afford. I don't even drool over the $300 locos as I can't imagine putting out more than the lot rent on the trailer I live in is.
I don't drool over a big layout as I haven't the room for it. I am basically happy with my 3.5 x 5.1 foot HO scale layout. I would like a 4x8 though I think. We are looking for a "MRRing space with a house covering it", and when we find it it will still be awhile before I can afford to build a new 4x8 in the basement. Other expenses will creep in with buying the house.
Scratchbuilding? I did that when i was a teen with balsa wood, or 1/4 in luan for my O-O/27 pike. I was not as adept at it as I thought. I like kits. Reasonable prices for them and I get the enjoyment of painting and assembling them.
I couldn't think of scratch building a loco, so RTR it is. But the reasonable ready to run..like my well serving Bachmanns. I have built a few kit cars, but something always seems to be a tad off that I just can't fix totally. I am not mechanically or electronically inclined.
SO while I would like a lot, I can't afford it like other things in life. I would like to afford a more bigger and expensive house, but our budget is on the lower end. We will find something someday we hope.We know that.
I buy stuff only when it is good price, on sale, and/or I have a coupon for it. I seriously think about every purchase I make before I buy it. SOmetimes you have to pay retail, but oh well. I used to be a handy man of sorts, but now I am disabled and limited on what I can do. Ces't La Vie.
I do, however, think the hobby might be getting expensive. Other hobbies are expensive as well. One can spend a small fortune on "paper scraps" and "thingys" for scrapbooking or photo albuming. One can spend a small fortune on material with which to sew a quilt. ANd car or RV type hobbies are very expensive. ANything that there is a market for, and people will buy looks like the goose's golden egg to manufacturers. SO they will fleece as much as we will take.
So my glass is now half full here on this page as I have filled it with my opinions and thoughts and ideas. anyone is free to read them or pass over them.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Find out how to scratchbuild something, have fun talking about railfanning trips you did..that type of stuff...
Er, uh, Barry, the following is not directed at you but is a general comment based on the words above.
Yeah, right. Then someone will go on a rant about how Evergreen is charging exorbitant prices for styrene, Northeastern outrageous prices for scale lumber (makes full size premium lumber look dirt cheap) and that Micro-Mark prices for tools amount to highway robbery. I don't even dare mention prices for the metal products of K&S Engineering or Special Shapes.
Personally, I'm not totally convinced that scratchbuilding is really cheaper in the long run. It just has the potential of spreading the cost over a longer time period. It also has the advantage of getting you something not commercially offered, which is, to me, the most cogent argument for scratchbuilding.
You want to scratchbuild a USRA light 2-8-2 a la Gordy Odegard in the early 80's? No problem. Greenway Products will sell you four sets of 63" drivers for $72 plus shipping. Bowser has them considerably cheaper, but that assumes that they are still available. In any case, by the time you add shipping, you're still somewhere around $50. Oh yeah, then there's NWSL with their hands out for quarterers, arbor presses, wheel pullers and gear boxes if you plan to something other than the stock Bowser worms and gears. And then there are motors and Cal-Scale/PSC detail parts. 'Course you only have to pay NWSL once for the tools and they become progessively cheaper on a per unit basis if you're doing a lot of work on locomotives, but you still need to pony up at some point.
You buy a RTR locomotive and all the money goes out at once. Scratchbuild it and the payments can be spread. However, were I a betting man, I'd wager that a scratchbuilt steam locomotive detailed to at least the current standards of RTR plastic would end up being as expensive, if not more so, than one of the offerings of Walthers, BLI or MTH. Same with a diesel.
Structures are no different. You need more than just sheets of styrene or wood. Styrene strip in various sizes and sheet in various thicknesses can get expensive quickly. Unless you scratchbuild your own doors and windows, you're going to need to cross the palms of the likes of Grandt Line with silver.
Funny thing is, most people don't include the cost of something they've already spent when figuring out how much something actually costs. Railfan trip? Well, most people don't figure the full cost of the automobile (i.e. insurance, depreciation, maintenance, etc.), just the gas. OK, then there's food and shelter (if it's an overnight trip). If part of the railfan experience actually includes riding on a train, there's the ticket price (unless of course, you're in the habit of hopping freights - not a good idea). The cost of a railfan trip can easily add up to the cost of some very nice stuff from <insert supplier(s) name(s) here>. A ride on the Maine Eastern from Rockland to Brunswick and back would set me back $42 for the ticket. Chasing the train is not really an option. It's about a 90 mile round trip to Rockland from here. I figure the total vehicle cost at about 50 cents/mile. Call it $100 overall with lunch and a tip. It didn't cost much more than that for my wife to renew our Sam's Club membership AND buy a new printer for our computer. $100 was about what it cost me to buy three 24x80 flush doors plus a pair of 18x78 bi-folds to be used as the basis for a an L-shaped switching layout. Of course, that's not the end of it. Screws, 1x2's and 2x2's added about another $100 and more will be spent for other stuff over time.
There's only so much money. A person can spend time saving and spending his money wisely or can spend that time complaining that his/her supply of money is not limitless.
Cedarwoodron was right. The glass is half full.
OTOH, I'm tempted to go on a rant about the price of water (I've seen Evian at about $1.00/500 ml or roughly the price of gasoline in my area).
Any way you enjoy your hobby is the correct way.
It's YOUR hobby.
I've never understood why certain in-DUH-viduals feel the need to impose their standards of hobby enjoyment or 'correctness' on others. As if they way they do the hobby is THE BEST way. give me a break....
The whole point to this thread is that there are OTHER ways to enjoy the hobby without arguing about whether the companies that make the products are taking too much money out'n your'n pockets...
jmbjmb So I assume we're supposed to simply pay whatever is asked?
So I assume we're supposed to simply pay whatever is asked?
I think the immigrant Chinese said it best about 100 years ago or more...."No tickee, no laundlee!"
You are most assuredly required to pay precisely the amount they demand if you intend to leave with the product owned by you. No different from any other retail exchange anywhere on the globe.
Crandell
Well, one should wonder how many newcomers there would be if there were no rtr stuff? Like in the sixties, when most structures, even simple ones were kits and the only rtr was train set fodder, tyco and model power, with ahm making some better rtr stuff.
Very well said !...Cedar...
So I assume we're supposed to simply pay whatever is asked? Before someone gets all wadded up, my hobby expenses are probably far less than most on here. I do scratchbuilding and I still know how to use balsa and paper to build structures that beat a lot of the RTR plastic. But let's also try to look at this from the new comers point of view. A new comer isn't going to know how to scratchbuild because no one has shown them. And when they go looking for kits, they will find a lot of RTR at $30 but few kits at $10. Local swap meets? Unless you live in a very model railroad area, those are few and far between in most of the country. Look on ebay? A new comer doesn't even know what to look for.
I started this hobby in 1971 with a Tyco train set I earned selling Christmas Cards and a "how-to" book from the school library. My first scratchbuilt structure was E L Moore's Carolina Foundry in the Jan 72 issue, built from balsa and paper. I read that article and said "I can do that." But today? When they read an article on someone's railroad, it won't say how much fun they're having in 4x8 with two locos on DC. Instead it will tell them they have to have at least a dozen or so locomotives and DCC. Of course, you have to build up to that dream layout, but again the new comer isn't going to know that. So they're starting out with too big a mountain to climb.
Instead of slapping the newcomers because they can't jump right to the top, this hobby needs to be more welcoming. There need to be some basic locomotives and cars readily available, all the time that will run on 4x8. GP 9s, SWs, 2-8-0s. Not limited runs where if you don't order two years before you know you need it, you won't get it. The industry needs to do that just to grow those future customers. We also need more basic how-to articles (heck, folks raised cain on here a while ago because MR published an article on simple DC control). Maybe the experts already know all that stuff, but those are for tomorrows experts, not todays.
You guys should try G scale these days. Makes the price rises in the smaller scales look mild in comparison. At least your track prices didn't double in price in the last 5 years. The gnashing of teeth about costs going about costs makes thescussion here look a Sunday Tea Party. I agree that it's all relative,some things are going to be more expensive than others.Kitbashing and scratchbuilding are good options but I'm surprised how few peps will step up to the plate and try it. While some have legit health or other reasonsthey can't try. Most capable folks are far too content to just gripe about it and whine about prices and lack of availablity of things. I'm looking to try again in G with an indoor urban layout and I will have to scratch almost everything on it. Just comes with the territory if you want something special and not just another cookie cutter layout.
Have fun with your trains
For the clueless, the world which includes this hobby is continually evolving. It also takes some children a long time to comes to grips with this.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
This is not a problem if you have the bottle, control of your emotions and are not just looking for attention.
Some of the wisest words on this forum, I agree wholeheartily on your comments, if it were not for train shows and their tables of used goodies I would not be in the hobby, I just don't worry about the guy at the next booth buying another "Big Boy" to add to his collection of five others, just carry on and have a good time--- remember to pick up a couple of extra wooden coffee stirrers at your local coffe shop-- makes perfect scale lumber.
Seriously, I couldn't agree more. I am always amazed at the outraged sense of entitlement in some people. Simply, if you can't afford something, that's just the way it is. The grownups know not to buy stuff on plastic unless it is absolutely necessary, and they also know if it isn't absolutely necessary, one needn't have it. We confuse wants with needs all the time.
A hobby is a diversion, some 'me' time. It isn't "It's all about me!" time.
sfcouple Cedarwoodron, Very well put and I totally agree. A few years ago I saw a branchline water tower kit that would be a perfect fit for my then existing layout. So I just scratch built it using the top of an old aerosol can as support for the wooden planks making up the tank. This provided many hours of enjoyment and the total expense was probably 1/10 what the kit would have cost. BTW: for me if a container is either half full or half empty it means the container is twice the size it needs to be. Wayne
Cedarwoodron,
Very well put and I totally agree. A few years ago I saw a branchline water tower kit that would be a perfect fit for my then existing layout. So I just scratch built it using the top of an old aerosol can as support for the wooden planks making up the tank. This provided many hours of enjoyment and the total expense was probably 1/10 what the kit would have cost.
BTW: for me if a container is either half full or half empty it means the container is twice the size it needs to be.
Wayne
I agree..great post here cedar...
As for the glass...I want a large glass as well.....
cedarwoodron ... For me, that glass of water is half-full! Cedarwoodron
... For me, that glass of water is half-full!
Cedarwoodron
I would say your glass is too big.
(Old engineer's joke which I have used, hopefully with permission.)
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
Well said.
The timbers beneath the rails are not the only ties that bind on the railroad. --Robert S. McGonigal
You know, I was planning on throwing in my 2 cents worth on that "What has happened to the hobby" thread that ran 4 pages, but what is one more reply among dozens on that thread?
So, let's look at it from the other side:
To those who complain about costs of the hobby:
1. While RTR has become a significant factor in purchases, the quality level has increased exponentially over the old days. The economics are relative to the times we live in and the requirements of production/consumption in the marketplace- those things are beyond our control. Most of us probably had a father who groused about the price of meat or a dress shirt when we were kids because he remembered prices in the 1930s and 40s. I remember my first Athearn BB of a SP flat car at $1.98 in 1965. I treasure the memory, but I also live in the present, and must deal with it.
2. Necessity and (economically) adverse conditions- our own personal costs of living versus our desire to enjoy the hobby are not insurmountable barriers.
- Buy something new when you can, but navigate the internet for sales, auctions, etc. for bargains.
- Get off your duff and spend 4 hours at that local train flea market that is put on every so often, and come prepared to buy, because you WILL find discounts of something that you want (that catches your eye) or need (essential to building your layout). If that is not possible, fall back on the internet.
- Don't assume that improving that old BB kit or building that wood structure kit (that states " for intermediate skill level modelers" on the box) is beyond you- there is a universe of help and advice just a few keystrokes away online. I can't think of a greater bunch of folks than those on this website from whom I have sought advice and received it for free- I always say thank you, the courtesy coin of the realm on this forum!
- Many of us have become adept at looking elsewhere for our modeling needs- or looking at something meant for another use and adapting it to railroad use.
- Scratchbuilding is not a DEAD ART! I have seen far too many examples of masterful work done by others (again, online) and many of these folks are generous in describing their techniques.
- Scratchbuilding supplies are plentiful- from the pre-cut balsa, basswood and acrylic paints available at a craft store to the cast-off styrene plastic signs your neighbor throws out after his yard sale. Again, be creative and innovative of your own accord!
- The home supplies centers sell plywood sheets, foam board, pine and fir trim pieces that can still make a table for your layout- they are not going to disappear any time soon. Even discarded wood of all sorts is always around somewhere- if you look.
So, given all these less- expensive alternatives to ordering everything at retail cost, use old-fashioned CAN-DO American ingenuity and think (and do) for yourself!
Most of us can attest to the self-satisfaction of accomplishing something we thought we couldn't, of being creative with the materials at hand, or finding an efficient economic solution to a hobby problem.
Part of the concept of a hobby is to not just pass the time, but to engage in an activity that is emotionally and (perhaps spiritually) rewarding. That we use our own native intelligence to solve problems, no matter how young or old we are is also part of the whole thing.
If you want to see more young modelers in the hobby, don't be shy or ashamed to talk up your interests with nephews, grandchildren, or (in my case) students. Believe it or not, there are young people who can still discover the thrill of being creative with tools and such- just because the majority are often distracted by technological toys and gadgets, doesn't mean there isn't a minority who like to build- they are our future engineers and such.
And if you feel a need to justify being a person "who plays with trains" when talking to anyone, irrspective of their age, speak about the technological skills that this hobby promotes- basic electricity, electronics, materials science, precision measurement and assembly, architectural design, regional planning, logistics, industrial design, engineering and manufacturing processes- and I could go on and on with more.
For many of us, whatever our economic circumstances, there are ways to enjoy the hobby without being rich. For me, that glass of water is half-full!