Mine is around the room N scale in a room about 10 1/2 by 10 1/2. I am building 58 inches high, so it is at standing eye level. I have a duck under, designed so it is only 14 inches across to get under, and very little under the table. It is a duck-my-head, rather than a crawl-on-my-hands-and-knees.
For someone who cannot duck easily- having an office rollaround chair might be a workable way in and out.
If youi want benchwork 3e feet out from the wall, fine, but you do not need that to have 30 inch radius curves. (You did mean 30 inch RADIUS didn't you, around the room, not 30 inch diameter where the an entire turnback curve fits on one poiece of 3 foot benchwork?) Benchwork 18 inches to 24 inches deep would work fine with 30 inbch radius curves around the corners, just may need to have a little triangle piece. Benchwork doesn't need to be rectangular boxes....
Dear Frank
That's not a bad drawing at all.
My father-in-law and I decided to build my son's layout in our basement. I don't know how much space we have down there, but this layout (image attached) takes up about sixty to seventy percent of it. It's against two walls.
I chose 24" and 30" radii because I'd plan to run some of the longer passenger cars. I'm new to this hobby and know almost nothing about it. The squares represent one foot, so the layout is approximately 12' x 11'.
--Jaddie
This is the winner if you want to go around all the walls. Increase layout height, and use a chair with wheels to roll under for access. To reach the rear sections of your layout have a step stool to stand on and your reach is much greater. I am planning on something similar for a layout space. One other advantage of the higher layout is it gives you more space under the layout that can be used for other things. If your layout is over 50 inches high you maybe able to work in staging under the layout, as well as putting in a desk or some other items like a work bench and lots of storage space. I would recommend anything that gets put under the layout be on wheels so it can easily be moved if needed to work on the layout.
Hello well here is a drawing of what I am thinking of it shows the room size and were things are.
sorry for the bad drawing. I kinda like the track plain but not sue how big I can make the loops. What do think Frank
Hello well I have been reading though a few books and mags and all the replies here. And now I am thinking of a G shape with a loop on each end. The layout will be the only thing in the 12x14 space . So if I offset the the loops I should end up with a walkway. And have room in the middle. I been drawing ideas out on paper. I still have about a month or so till I can start working in there so I am sure I will have more questions. Thanks for all the info it helps Frank
The biggest advantage to an around the room layout is more layout. Longer runs, more square footage for buildings, sidings, etc.
The biggest disadvantage is getting in and out of the room.
When I used a duckunder, my layout was built with the top at 58". Using two pieces of 3/4" plywood laminated together I bridged the door opening giving an underneath clearance of 56.5". This worked well for me - I'm 5'11". Basically, I just had to bend slightly ducking my head down - sounds more complicated than it is. Entry and exit to the room was really very easy even when I turned 60.
My current layout doesn't have a duckunder. The underside of the benchwork provides 46" of clearance, IMHO this is too low for a duckunder. But I can roll under the layout sitting on a desk chair so that may be an option if you want.
Good luck
Paul
Seamonster You will need a lift out or a hinged bridge affair that you can raise to open the door, with the appropriate interlocks to prevent running a train off the end of the track. But then, once you're in the room with the lift out in place, running trains, you're trapped in the room and no one else can get in until you lift the bridge, stopping train activity in that area.
You will need a lift out or a hinged bridge affair that you can raise to open the door, with the appropriate interlocks to prevent running a train off the end of the track.
But then, once you're in the room with the lift out in place, running trains, you're trapped in the room and no one else can get in until you lift the bridge, stopping train activity in that area.
Or simply duck under, if you want to get in or out while trains are running over your head on a moveable lift-out, lift-out. swing gate, lift bridge or whatever.
If you have someone (layout owner or visitor) who can't duck under, traffic will just have to halt while this person moves through the moveable section.
Up to each of us how complicated or simple we want to make things.
There are few, if any, one-size-fits-all solutions in model railroading. Pretty much all design decisions we make are trade-offs in soem way.
Me, one of the things I like about around the walls on not too deep shelves is that it tends to leave plenty of accessible storage space on the walls above and below the layout, while still leaving the center of the room open, and that if often (but not always) allows the layout to coexist with other uses of the room.
Say a computer room/home office combined with a layout room. A rarely used guest bedroom combined with a layout room. A storage room combined with a layout room. Other uses of the room often means that the doorway (and possibly windows, as a fire escape) should not be permanently blocked.
Dogbones (for continuous run without having an enclosed area) also work, of course, but they tend to use more floor space, and tends to make other uses of the room harder (at least of the room is not so big).
And of course - there is no law that says that you have to have continuous run. One can make a heck of a layout on not too deep shelves along three or three and a half walls of a room, by foregoing the continuous run option.
On such a layout, you either have staging on both ends or run and out-and-back scheme of some kind.
Or for that matter, do a turnback blob/helix on one end only, going first one way on one shelf, then around and down (or up) and then head back in the opposite direction on the shelf above or below the one you first ran on, giving you a longer point-to-point layout.
Options are many :-)
Smile, Stein
Five years ago I moved my n scale layout from my family room up to an unused bedroom. It was an around the walls type with a 70 ft single track mainline, of modular construction. Each module was 48 in long X 1 ft wide. Before I moved it I reversed the swing of the door so it opens out into the hallway ( I was replacing the doors anyway). Now I have a 34 ft mainline run on the lower level. A helix going into a closet up to the second level which will use up the rest of the benchwork. The 42 inch duckunder may become a problem later as I get older and my artritic knees get worse.
There are alternatives to duckunders and liftouts - a swinging gate, either vertical (think old style bar) or horizontal. One guy built the equivalent of a lift bridge - thing looks like an elevator.
My layout is 17 ft. x 13 ft. and the entrance is in one corner at a 45 degree position to the room, which I felt limited the space if I put in a dogbone style. So I elected to go with around the room as I definitely wanted continuous running. That put about a three foot duck-under or bridge into play. As the whole three feet end up on a curve I elected to go with the duck-under. There are two bridges at that location, one is at 51 inches and the other is at 56 inches in height. so for me being at 5ft 7 it is not much of a duck.
You really have to weigh out the pros and cons and your preferences because there are many things in model railroading that can be changed and this could be also, but this one would really create alot of work not only at the corner but also further back into the layout on both side and then the frustration of trying to make it work without a complete dismantle.
This is so very important because you are the one who knows your personal requirements for yourself, your family and your friends. we cannot make those decisions for you. It all comes down to your planning.
Now having said that I'm not limiting you to have every tie and spike planned out. Myself, I had spent a lot of time planning, but I found I was spinning my wheels. Thus made my mind up that I knew what I wanted and had decided on the aforementioned layout/room design, so I just started building some benchwork, not over 30 inches wide and then had to adjust some of that when I decided that I would put a helix at the end of the center peninsula to access the lower level that I added after starting, to get the necessary aisle width (which by the way is fairly narrow), but it works for me and I don't have a lot of visitors.
This worked for me, others have had everything planned, there is no right or wrong way. But my suggestion to you is make the basic decisions and get started, and just enjoy the journey.
Johnboy out................. and back to the "Honeydolist"
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
One big advantage of an around the room layout is the ability to convincingly model flatter terrain. I rent so my layouts must be small and portable. I built a 40" x 60" N Scale layout depicting the South Carolina low country, which is relatively flat. There was simply now way to disguise the whole "Round and round the Christmas Tree" effect. As such I got board with it, tore it down and built my Cherokee Foothill Railroad, another 40" x 60" roundy rounder. This layout has mountains and tunnels to give it more visual interest.
Around the room layouts also have a lot less dead space to fill than their table-top roundy-rounder brethren.
Modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in N Scale.
www.prr-nscale.blogspot.com
Fastball I had duck-unders and movable bridges for years and serioulsy got tired of them. I dismantled them earlier this year and now have a giant dog bone and could not be happier.... -Paul
I had duck-unders and movable bridges for years and serioulsy got tired of them. I dismantled them earlier this year and now have a giant dog bone and could not be happier....
-Paul
I was very concerned about the same issue. I saw my father lose his layout and model railroading as a hobby when he injured his back and could no longer duck under. Eventually, the heartbreak of not being able to continue the layout as he wanted and dreamed led him to give up the hobby completely in frustration.
Then I realized how slow my layout progress really was. I figured (now in my late '50s) that the chances of me being locked into model railroading in the same smallest spare bedroom 10 years down the road are pretty small. The last kids will be out of the house in another 4 years or so, and even if we don't move to a smaller, more maintainable house and yard, I would use another bedroom for the layout.
So I figured building a non-continuous layout around 3 walls is just fine for the next 4-5 years or so. I have a portable loop (40" x 60") to set up on a table when I need a continuous running fix, and for tuning my locomotives and rolling stock. And an under-the-Christmas tree Lionel layout for the fun of it.
The viable alternative to preserve continuous running is as Paul mentioned - the water wings or dog bone around 3 sides of the room. Automating reversing loops at either end makes a single track between the reversing loops quite reasonable (and realistic) to use. Access issues can be mitigated by not putting the reversing loops in the corner - leave an aisle in the corner to get to the end of the reversing loop blob.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
3' is a long reach......
Here's my HOn3 layout in a roughly 11x14 room:
I have a round the room layout. The benefit, I get a lot more layout than I could with a "table in the center" scheme. I have liftout sections to bridge the door into the room and the closets. The liftout sections are a difficulty. I made them close fitting and find that they stick in the summer. Putting them into place or removing them without damaging the track is so difficult that I leave them in place and just duck under to get in or out.
You have 12 * 14 feet. I would certainly look at a dog bone design just to get rid of the liftout sections. You can have a 30 inch radius on a dog bone that is only 6 feet wide. Consider a view block down the center of the dogbone making two scenes of it.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
To avoid "Doorway/Duckunder Syndrome" -- Employ a dogbone layout design on each end near the doorway while maintaining full walk-in room access.
Without a duckunder -- The layout design challenge then becomes how to turn the trains at each layout end -- Which is then in essence a point-to-point layout instead of an around-the-walls continuous mainline layout. With a point-to-point layout, at minimum, you still need to turn-around the engines at the layout ends with a turntable or a wye.
If you consider 32" as your maximum comfortable benchwork reach -- The dogbone still permits this comfort-reach as the benchwork ends can adjust to the width needed for the dogbones. The dogbone-return can be as simple as a reverse loop if you stick with a 1-track mainline for return runs.
Or: You can have the appearance of a 2-track mainline in the middle of the around-the-room shelf layout between the two dogbone-ends. You can always have turnouts arranged as crossovers to assist with mainline directional-control. This design arguably allows for the greatest layout-planning and operating flexibility.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Hello
Stebbycertral #3 sounds cool I could put in a fire pole in to get down but this room is on the 3rd floor so the ladder would be in the living room the Wife wont like that.
Tom,Seamonster
The room is 12x 20 but has a closet that is 6x6 witch gives me the 12x14 of open space the door will be 6' from the layout. There is one window in the 12' wall. It's a finshed room with hardwood floors it gets warm up there in the summer but not real hot.
How well do the liftout's hold up I have a bad knee so a duckunder wont work.
I had duck-unders and movable bridges for years and serioulsy got tired of them. I dismantled them earlier this year and now have a giant dog bone and could not be happier. My wall section is 27 feet long by 24 inches wide and the reach is good. 30 inches may stretch it for short people but I'm 6' 2" so I could handle it. My deck height is 40 inches, adequate for me for to lean over and still good for children to view the layout.
I have around the garage layout with 24 inch shelf all around and about 3 feet of aisle space and at one end in the middle I have a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the middle so my mainline does a climbing loop from one side the of garage to another.
The pros- You end up with more mainline and alot more change of scenery and industry opportunities.
The cons- the duck under (which I do but my layout is at my elbow height so not too bad) or you do a lift out. That is about all I can think of
For starters, 3' is going to be a heck of a reach to the back of the layout not only to put in scenery and track but to re-rail trains. To test this out, have someone hold a broom handle 3' out from the wall and 45" off the floor, stand in front of it and try to touch the wall. If you're pressing against the broom handle with your body, then you'd be pressing against scenery and any trains on tracks at the front. I realize that you may need the extra width in corners to get your 30" curves. You could install a curved backdrop in the corner that's in from the corner of the wall to reduce the front to back distance to a more manageable distance without sacrificing the space for 30" curves.
As for the door, it likely opens into the room. You will need a lift out or a hinged bridge affair that you can raise to open the door, with the appropriate interlocks to prevent running a train off the end of the track. But then, once you're in the room with the lift out in place, running trains, you're trapped in the room and no one else can get in until you lift the bridge, stopping train activity in that area. That said, many people have around the room layouts that go across doors and I'm sure some of them will offer their solutions. I don't have an around the room layout so I'm just speaking from the point of no experience.
Or you could remove the door or turn it into a Dutch door. Just kidding!
..... Bob
Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here. (Captain Kirk)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. (Adam Savage)
Resistance is not futile--it is voltage divided by current.
Hey Frank,
FYI: 3' wide may be a bit of a reach when it comes to maintenance/access. 30" is generally the maximum width for reach for most folks.
With 14' along one wall, you could have a small peninsula. Will you be using the room for anything else?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Just the obvious, getting in and getting out. Duckunder? Lift section? Cut a hole in the middle of the floor and run a ladder up from the basement? (Personally, I'd vote for #3.)
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Hello I am getting a new train room I will have a 12 x 14 space to fill. I was thinking of a around the room layout . I was thinking the bench width should be around 3' out from the wall ? The top of the bench will 45'' off the floor. The layout will make a full circle so I will need some kind of lift out ? I run HO scale in DC and would like 30'' curves if I can. Is there any thing I know be for I start planing ? thanks Frank