Excursion Trains -- Good or Bad for Promoting Rail Passenger Travel?

[Roadtrp]

I went on an Excursion train today, and had very mixed feelings about the experience. I went on the North Shore Scenic Railroad for a 1-1/2 hour trip from Duluth to Lester River and back. I would guess it was about 15 miles each way; the train moving slowly along what must be marginally maintained track.

I hate to criticize it, because I like almost anything that exposes people to train travel. I just don't know if this was a very good exposure. The passenger cars were restored to the extent that they were safe and had a nice coat of paint on the outside. Inside, they were configured nothing like they would have ever looked like in service, and were extremely worn. The train was pulled by a nicely maintained early diesel switcher, but it was nothing special.

And the Scenic part was something of an exaggeration. For about 5-10 minutes each way you could see Lake Superior. The rest of the way you saw the back side of run down buildings on one side and the trees and bru***hat were between the tracks and the lake on the other. Frankly, no one on the train seemed very impressed. I'm not sure many would ever try it a second time. Train fan that I am, I know that I wouldn't.

On the other hand, I hate to bad-mouth the train. The crew is entirely volunteer labor by former railroad employees, and the funds go to support what is actually a VERY GOOD railroad museum in Duluth.

I just wonder if in the end it is an overall plus or minus when it comes to supporting rail travel. We paid $10 each for an hour and a half ride to nowhere on antiquated and poorly preserved equipment.

For $32 per ticket, you could take the Empire Builder round trip from Minneapolis to Winona Minnesota. This trip would give you a beautiful view of the Mississippi River valley virtually the entire trip. You would be traveling on first class equipment with a wonderful dining car. You would also have about a 4-1/2 hour round trip instead of a 1-1/2 hour one.

So, what do you think? As well intentioned as it is, do you think an Excursion Train like this is good or bad when it comes to promoting rail travel? [?]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Apples and oranges Jerry. Amtrak is transportation, it goes places. Excursions are just that, they return you to the place you started. An interesting comparison though for the dollars and the trip. Excursions usually mean roughing it a bit, but that's part of the fun. A piece of history.

Here's another example. Ever ride the streetcar by Lake Harriet? Two bucks a head for the slightly more than a mile ride in a vintage streetcar. Round trip about 20 minutes. Big Girl, my kids and I all love it. Total cost $8.

Have you had a chance to ride the new light rail? Now that's a ride!!! Buck and a quarter each or $5 for the four of us. Speeds up to 50 MPH, and about 90 minute round trip, 12 stations on the 8 mile line. It will be even better in December when they open the last 3 miles and 5 stations. The tunnels under the airport should be fun. The kids liked the light rail even better.

We as railfans may make the connection between rail excursions and rail travel, but the average person probably doesn't. An excursion is something you do when you are on vacation. Travel is meant to get you there. There are a lot more considerations when choosing a mode of travel.

Did Amtrak spoil you on your trip to Chicago???[swg]

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005


Did Amtrak spoil you on your trip to Chicago???[swg]

Yes, we were spoiled. But I want EVERY traveler in America to be spoiled just like we were. So often when I talk to folks about our trip, I get the old "But you could have been to Chicago in an hour for half the cost." They don't get it.

They don't see that travel by sleeper on a train is a higher level of luxury than you will EVER get on a plane. They can't imagine the privacy accorded by a sleeper when you lock the glass door and slide the privacy curtain across it. They can't imagine the food. They are feeling pretty cocky because they got micro-waved chicken on a plastic plate while everyone else got peanuts and a coke.

I ate Rack of Lamb at a table covered by a cloth tablecloth with a fresh flower in a bud vase. I experienced a level of luxury, at a very modest cost, that very few others will ever experience.

I want EVERYONE to know how great rail travel can be today. And the North Shore Scenic Railway just isn't going to make anyone want to take the train.

[:)][:)]

[Anonymous]

I think that excursion trains are in general a good thing. Along with tourist lines they fill a vital role in this country in teaching the public what train travel was like, and giving them a little glimps as to what they are missing.

As much as I hate to say. the Best program running is Union Pacific's. Two very well maintained steam locomotives and a fleet of what are now rare and signifigant diesles. If you are lucky to ride one of these trains, you are in for a rare and delectible treat.

Then the crews working out of the Brooklyn Roundhouse in Portland also do a bang up job. But are hamstrung by sky high insurance. But Doyle and the boys do good job of putting on a spectacular show for the fans when they are out on the road.

As a whole Excursions are a vital part of the railroad industry. They generate good PR for railroading, and serve to connect the public with railroading's past.

James

[Big_Boy_4005]

I hate to say it Jerry, but excursion trains generally operate on shoestring budgets. They aren't supposed to rival commercial travel or railroad owned and operated vintage equipment. We are lucky to have them at all. Remember Amtrak is a business, and is even partially funded by tax dollars. The poor little North Shore Scenic is a non profit gig scraped together and manned by volunteers. So who is going to have nicer cars, and a nicer ride? I say any train, even a bad one, is better than NO train.

I don't want to sound rude here, but go over to the Jackson Street Roundhouse, and join the Minnesota Transportation Museum. Then volunteer on any of the projects, and see what it takes to make trains go or fix them up. I was a member many years ago, and I haven't forgotten.

[Jetrock]

roadtrp: Agreed as to the level of luxury on Amtrak--I got back on the California Zephyr two weeks ago from Chicago (heck, maybe we were there the same time!) and enjoyed it immensely. Everyone I talked to had that same dumbfoundedness as to why I bothered to take the train at all, when airplanes are so much faster...it's one of those things that is hard to explain. Either you get it or you don't.

Expedition trains vary widely. Within an hour of home, we have the Sacramento Southern, which is a short (three-mile, 40-minute) trip, with a river on one side and a freeway on the other--the river side is pretty nice, the freeway side lacks a certain level of charm. The track is scrupulously maintained, and while the open-air cars are not exactly show-stoppers (converted gondolas with canvas tops) the coaches are all immaculately-restored heavyweight passenger cars, and the motive power either an 0-6-0 steamer or one of several beautiful antique diesels.

Then there's the Yolo Short Line--the track is a little scruffy but well-maintained, as is the rolling stock, and the trip is about four hours through flat, flat terrain along a long trestle (the Sacramento Valley only has two kinds of terrain: flat and underwater.) But in the spring, when the trip over the trestle looks like you're taking a long, long bridge over an ocean, and where you can see land it's covered in wildflowers, it's breathtaking.

Finally there's the Western Railway Museum. Their trips through most of the year are short runs, just a couple miles, but they run through rolling hills on a variety of interurban and trolley equipment varying from a big articulated Muni Bay Bridge unit to a single-truck Birney "bobber" trolley or a 100 year old all-wood interurban car. For the big spender, a special train in April consisting of a box motor, a chair car and a parlor car run out every weekend--for $5 you can get a seat in a genuine wood-lined interurban parlor car and get fed lemonade and cookies.

In my mind they're all fun in different ways--the only difference is that Amtrak is actual transportation.

But then again, the historic trolley lines in San Francisco and Portland do both!

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I hate to say it Jerry, but excursion trains generally operate on shoestring budgets. They aren't supposed to rival commercial travel or railroad owned and operated vintage equipment. We are lucky to have them at all.

Yes, I realize that. As I said, I hated to criticize the effort because of the wonderful railroad museum they maintained. I was just concerned because I'm sure that for most people on the train, it was their only experience with rail travel. Hopefully you are correct, and they recognize the difference between an excursion train and travel on one of Amtrak's premium long distance trains.

I was encouraged that a little excursion train holding 210 people was SOLD OUT on a Tuesday afternoon. Hopefully that is a sign of growing interest in rail travel.

[:)]

[Anonymous]

You guys out west are lucky, I've only ridden on one (The Broadway Limited, after Amtrak renamed it to the Three Rivers the diner was dropped ) out of about 25 Amtrak trains that had a diner, even the Acela doesn't have a great menu!

[CP5415]

In my one true experience for an excursion was riding ACR's Canyon train in 1998. It was, for me, a good experience. Mind you I paid the extra cash for the dome car without children.
Keep your shirts on, I like kids, I have a daughter remember!
It was a full day trip, spent two hours in the middle of no-where while the train set up for the trip back, but the scenery was amazing!
The car itself was an EX- California Zephur dome "Silver Palace"
In true passenger train service, 3 F units up front!
This was a trip I would recommend for anyone.
Again, as Elliot said, apples & oranges.
I guess it depends on where you are going & what you are riding!

Gordon