hdtvnutHere at central Florida shows, I am finding P2K E units new (old stock) for as low as $20, usually about $40. A few bucks more with dummy B units. Hal
I recall talking to a small LHS owner in Indiana some years back. He was lamenting how P2K had produced so much stock of those older E8's and some other P2K diesels and how they were literally being dumped for super cheap out on the market. Those are probably among those production runs and there is still a small glut of them floating around at train shows. I think LL P2K soon tightened up production on their diesel lines, and I think some of the loco's coming out shot up quite abit in price. Among them were the first runs of the original P2K GP60's and SD60's IRRC. Of course that was nothing compared to the price increase's we've seen since Walthers took over the P2k Line.
As an aside, I did purchase a P2K E8 in CB&Q. They were nice engines at the time but mine came with the printing on the nose smeared and pretty ugly looking smear at that. I returned it and still have no E units on my roster to this day. My intention at that time was to model the hand-off of the CZ to the CB&Q in Denver.
The original post if I understand it correctly aimed at what can generally be had on todays market for under $100. Yes, we can treasure hunt for deals and there certainly are a lot of better quality HQ HO diesels which can be found for under 100. Very few of them are from recent production runs however.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
caballorr What Manufacturer makes the best diesel locomotive for under 100 $ in HO scale ? ATHEARN , BACHMANN , ATLAS and so on ? Thanks in advance
What Manufacturer makes the best diesel locomotive for under 100 $ in HO scale ? ATHEARN , BACHMANN , ATLAS and so on ? Thanks in advance
I just got an ABA set of Stewart F3s with Kato drives for $99 on ebay. That is hard to beat. Three powered Stewarts will smoothly pull 65 cars up a 2% grade around a 36" radius curve.....
I just got a Hobby Town of Boston RS-3 for $30, it will pull a ton.
The Athearn Genesis F units can be found for under $100. They are the best looking. If you get the details right for the prototype.
Best unit per dollar spent - if one ignores the used market and goes just on list price. I have to go with the Proto-1000. They look OK and run very well. For the $ I think they are the best deal.
The best sound I got for under $100 was a Proto-2000 U28B on clearance from Train World. It has the first generation QSI sound processor in it.
So bottom line is when one gets into generalizing there are lots of options for under $100. I say you can't go wrong with Atlas, Athearn Genesis (as long as you avoid the older units with MRC sound/electronics), Athearn RTR, Proto-2000, Proto-1000, Stewart, or Intermountain. I can't speak to the Bachmann. I have never run them seriously. I have a couple that I loned to a friend to test drive. He choose them as the one he prefered even over an Atlas. So... for whatever it is worth.
train 62 I dont know if you run DC or DCC, but I just yesterday seen a Kato SD40-2 DC brand new for under $100. I dont what the shipping was. wish I could remember the name, but it has a steamer on the name of the website.
I dont know if you run DC or DCC, but I just yesterday seen a Kato SD40-2 DC brand new for under $100. I dont what the shipping was. wish I could remember the name, but it has a steamer on the name of the website.
With KATO SD40-2's, it really depends on whether they are the earlier release with the electrical pickup problems or the revised version which fixed the pickup problems. That would affect the value and cost, the earlier probably should be able to be had for less, perhaps 60-70 dollars due to the issue which will either render the diesel inoperable after some time or require a substantial amount of work to get it re-wired to correct the pick up problem long term. IMO, it's the sellers who aren't aware of this which ask higher prices based on the reputation of KATO alone and not taking into account the problem. The newer SD40-2's are supposed to be fine and would likely have a higher value, though you may be able to get them for under 100 with some luck.
BRAKIE slammin: Its hard to beat the yellow box Atlas diesels with the Kato drive. While the detail is not up to todays standards, they are some of the best running locos around. Its not difficult to find new old stock selling for well under $100. The older Stewart F units with Kato drives are also great runners and can be had for $50.00 or less if you shop around. Absolutely! They're still a good buy even with today's locomotives.
slammin: Its hard to beat the yellow box Atlas diesels with the Kato drive. While the detail is not up to todays standards, they are some of the best running locos around. Its not difficult to find new old stock selling for well under $100. The older Stewart F units with Kato drives are also great runners and can be had for $50.00 or less if you shop around.
Its hard to beat the yellow box Atlas diesels with the Kato drive. While the detail is not up to todays standards, they are some of the best running locos around. Its not difficult to find new old stock selling for well under $100. The older Stewart F units with Kato drives are also great runners and can be had for $50.00 or less if you shop around.
Absolutely! They're still a good buy even with today's locomotives.
Right. Just be sure the "yellow box" Atlas have the KATO drives because there is a difference. Now as a rule, even the older Atlas yellow box diesels were the best runners of their contemporary brands bar KATO.
I've owned the following yellow box Atlas:
RS3 (KATO drive) runs smooth and quiet - KATO says it all. (still own that one)GP7 (KATO drive) were actually not smooth as silk but pretty good. (sold them because the "black" was really dark gray and the orange was too reddish, just didn't care for the paint job).
GP40 (Roco drive) those had a little noise and ran a little rough at slow speeds. For 1970's they were considered good drives but drives have gotten much better. I sold all four of them because the ugly fuel tank would require a milllng machine and lots of skill to fix.
FP7 (Roco drive) those ran fairly smooth actually but not as good a a KATO. The main thing I had against the FP7 was the shell was butt ugly (narrow windshields, gross looking number boards, gaping hole in the pilot and air grills were crude looking). I couldn't bring myself to buy one, but I've watched others run theirs on my old layout.
The topic has been largely covered now but in summary:
In general, any newly produced (last 2 years) HO loco from KATO, Atlas, Walthers Proto 2000, or Athearn Genesis will be difficult to find "new" for under 100 (even at a very good discount). Prices have just risen too much. So if you want brand new from a recent production run, you may have to go with Athearn RTR (can be nice loco's but hit or miss running qualities), Atlas Trainman, Bachmann Spectrum, Bachman or Walthers Trainline.
HQ upper range diesel brands:
KATO: if you can find one under a hundred dollars (and you definitely can from older runs) they are among the best runners on the HO market, and N. Only one chassis was a lemon and that was the early SD40-2 with the electrical pickups which were a bad design, but was corrected in later runs. New runs will be above 100 street price, runs older than about 2 or 3 years can be found for under 100 new.
Atlas: As above, the newest offerings from Atlas's standard line are nearly impossible to purchase for under $100 at discount prices. I think I paid just under 100 for my non-sound GP40-2's in 2009 but anything issued since then is going to be well above 100 dollars street price. Earlier production (prior to 2009) you should be able to find for under 100 discount and Atlas is a top shelf HO loco maker so I would keep an eye out at train shows and fleabay etc for new Atlas diesels that were produced and shipped prior to 2009.
Proto 2000: Same as Atlas, anything new from the Walthers Proto 2000 line is going to be well above 100 dollars discount price since 2009 and going forward. If you can find Proto 2000 prior to year 2009 production, you should be able to find them under 100, or well under 100 as you go back in time. My Walthers Proto 2000 F7AB non-sound set was the last new P2K item (I bought) that was able to be bought at standard discount prices under 100 dollars (I paid $180 for an AB set averaging $90 each). The F3AB set which came after the F7AB set in production was quite abit higher and well over 100 average price per diesel. I was shocked at the MSRP when I first saw them on Walthers website and as my wife would say, they are having a laugh. They were simply out of my price range - thank the Lord I found some lovely Genesis F3's for a good discount.
Athearn Genesis: These are in the same situation as KATO and Atlas so just repeat the prices and years. Prior to 2009 product run you can find below 100 dollars discount. Since 2009, they have shot up.
Broadway Ltd: They are a bit all over the map but are priced in the top tier so expect to pay over 100 for a diesel. I'll let others comment - I've never bought one before and may never. They just haven't made anything I want yet.
Mid tier:
Athearn RTR: This is a line which quite frankly is a bit fuzzy because there are very highly detailed diesels such as the SD40T-2 and SD45T-2 and even the SD45 which can still be had for under 100 discount ( about $85 currently) and other than the motor (which could be better) they almost compare to highly detailed brass models and are quite a bargain. Then their are RTR GP40-2, GP35 and others which are very nice solid basic loco's with some modest level of detail but also cost less discount price. Athearn RTR in 2011 remains somewhat of a bargain but they may need some TLC in some cases to get running smoothly, be warned, and QAQC is somewhat spotty still.
Bachmann Spectrum: I hesitate to put B/S in this level because the fidelity of many of their diesels still don't measure up to my preferences but they are the "premium" line of Bachmann. I expect these may be priced a bit below the top tier and at a disount had for under 100 dollars.Budget tier (meant to be below 100 dollars street price and modest level of quality and detail):
1) Atlas Trainman, 2) Proto 1000 and 3) Walthers Trainline, 4) Bachmann standard line . All four of these linese are supposed to be a cut above "trainset" quality loco's and offer good performance at low cost sacrificing fine parts and details. I've ranked them in order of what I think are best to worst but they are all in the same ballpark.
In general, if you can get new engines older than 2 years, you can get better quality for your less than 100 dollars. IMO, the 100 barrier is somewhat of a psychological barrier and when the HQ diesels (KATO, Atlas, P2K and Genesis) shot above that barrier for street price acquisition, I would hazard their production and sales have slowed markedly. That kind of data is probably proprietary but I'll bet any dealer who is very active probably has seen the trend. I tended to buy more diesels when I could get them for around $70-80 each. Most of the recent diesels I've gotten in the last 2 years have been Athearn RTR tunnel motors which sold for that street price. Any loco' I've considered different from Athearn RTR has been more like $120 street price. I've only bought one. I imagine a lot of people are like me, and have cut their purchases drastically but this is something beyond our control. We can only buy what we can afford and the manufacurers do what they have to (that has been beat to death in other topics).
Cheers.
slammin Its hard to beat the yellow box Atlas diesels with the Kato drive. While the detail is not up to todays standards, they are some of the best running locos around. Its not difficult to find new old stock selling for well under $100. The older Stewart F units with Kato drives are also great runners and can be had for $50.00 or less if you shop around.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
In general, I would have to say Stewart and Atlas because of their drives. However, like others - I have found $100+ diesels on eBay for under $100. My Proto 2000 GP38-2s and S1s come to mind.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
You wil/have gotten about as many answers as there are brands.
Everyone can have a great experience with their loco brand, OR everyone can have a faulty experience. Like a car, "never by a loco built on a monday or a friday"!.
I am very happy with my Bachmann diesel DCC OnBoard Locos {around $50 a piece or less, some more} and have had NO trouble with them! I will swear by them! SOme are spectrum, some regular line. SOme were Spectrums in the first run, but become the standard issue after that. Bachmann has worked very hard to upgrade their products! I have not tried to run any of them into the ground on a marathon "lets see how long it will last before it fails" contests, tough admittedly. I run them as much as I want to enjoy them. They may lack some details, but I see many guys on the forums crying in their coffee that the details broke off.
My one Athearn on the other hand is a PITA.
SOme more expensive locos do NOT mean "quality is better". I have seen many threads when a $300.00 loco fails the owner. SOme have some nasty language over it. Since my Bachmanns were so reasonably priced, they may not "owe me anything" if they DO fail.
So there you have it.
Judge by what you can reasonably afford and enjoy them. Then IF they DO fail, they will owe you nothing if you got years of good use out of them.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Thanks for the info
~ Tim .
To see photos of my HO scale / 1/64 scale layout and diorama photos base in the present day . http://www.flickr.com/photos/icr140/
Proto 1000's hand down. Easy to wire DCC is you go that way. All so love Proto 2000's but might be over $100.00 depending on which one you buy.
If you like E-6's, the none sound pull like mules
I hate Rust
BRAKIE Jim,The newer Bachmann diesels seems to be smooth runners but,lacks details like no grab irons-kinda like the Atlas TrainMan.Of course prototype accuracy is out the window with Bachmann as you know and for the same dollar amount it would be best to move up the ladder to Athearn RTR,TrainMan or Walthers P1K or Trainline..
Jim,The newer Bachmann diesels seems to be smooth runners but,lacks details like no grab irons-kinda like the Atlas TrainMan.Of course prototype accuracy is out the window with Bachmann as you know and for the same dollar amount it would be best to move up the ladder to Athearn RTR,TrainMan or Walthers P1K or Trainline..
I am of the same mind. I've noted the Bachman GP40's are even produced in Rio Grande, but for some reason the lettering looks a bit "off" style wise and since I have some 21 GP40's and GP40-2's now from Atlas and Athearn, there isn't even a reason for me to look more closely. It is good that they Bachmann seems to offer a good running low cost diesel. Just might be "4 foot" models still as far as the accuracy goes (to quote the older MR review).
I do tend to trust Atlas Trainman as decent lower cost quality and I know my Trainline F40PH's are pretty decent for the $35 or 40 I paid for them, certainly they look better to me than the Spectrum warmed over F40PH.
I too say Atlas or Atlas trainman. For the most part I am happy with Athern but you have to run them awhile to get them run smooth.
If you count used, you sometimes you can get very, very, lucky on ebay.
I've gotten 2 dcc/sound equipped locos for under 100 bucks. I got a BLI SP NW2 for $75, and a P2K U28B for $95. I've also picked up several P2Ks for about $15 each.
As for new, trainman locos are pretty good.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
CTValleyRR You can save a lot of $$ by buying "DCC Ready" versions and installing your own decoders, too. I'm going to buck the people who say, "Stay away from Bachmann". Their basic line, yes, but I have 4 Spectrum locos (a GE E-33, a K-2 Pacific, and 2 GE 44 Tonners), and they all run very well, and are reasonably well detailed. I would, however, stay away from Bachmann's non-Spectrum products.
You can save a lot of $$ by buying "DCC Ready" versions and installing your own decoders, too.
I'm going to buck the people who say, "Stay away from Bachmann". Their basic line, yes, but I have 4 Spectrum locos (a GE E-33, a K-2 Pacific, and 2 GE 44 Tonners), and they all run very well, and are reasonably well detailed. I would, however, stay away from Bachmann's non-Spectrum products.
Agree'd. You can get very decent decoders in the $15-20 price range like the TCS T1 etc, especially if you buy them in groups of 4 or 10 you get a discount. That way you have some control over the decoder you get, and it may save you some money. If DCC ready you only have to pop off the shell and plug it into to the provided socket.
When it comes to Bachman, it totally depends. And I have to be honest, I have not kept up on the newer Bachman plastic diesels - or the published reviews. I know Bachmann diesels of the 1990's and early 2000's were lacking in many ways. The past 6 or 7 years may have seen improvements but I would definitely read the reviews and get feedback before buying, especially if you are used to the quality of Atlas, KATO, Proto 2000 and yes, even Athearn. The Bachman Spectrum line is generally better in the diesel line but I saw the "improvements" they made to the Spectrum F40PH, which was upgraded 4 or 5 years ago and still think Walthers Trainline F40PH is better as far as fidelity goes.
Remember, the Spectrum "steam" line was run by a different group in Bachmann and are, as a rule, very nice loco's, and have gotten very good product reviews. I have read that some of the Spectrum diesels like the GE44 tonner have also been revised and are signifcantly better than the older 1990's model.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Like Randy, I paid well under $100 for the vast majority of my HO loco's, which are listed on page 7 of the "show your diesel roster" topic in this same forum section. I paid between $55 and $90 discount for most of my HO loco's which include Stewart F's, Genesis, KATO's, Proto 2000 and Athearn RTR loco's.
Now the caviat is that much of the HO loco's offered in the last 2 years from Gensis, Walthers Proto 2000, Atlas and KATO have such a high MSRP now that the discount prices is pushing will above $100. My newest Atlas GP40-2 without sound were about $99 each, my newest Genesis FP7A was $119 at discount. However my nice Athearn tunnel motors with a lot of prototypical specific details, (plow and light packages) etc for about $75 and now the newst $85 each.
Look at the Walthers GP9M in their catalog:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=&scale=&manu=walthers&item=&keywords=gp9m&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=Search
There are a whole bunch of road names on sale now for $36.98. They are DC, and only have a headlight (no rear headlight,) but they look fine. I just got one a couple of weeks ago. It runs well. It was a piece of cake to add a simple decoder, and I'm thinking there's room in the shell to put in sound.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Every loco I own, with the exception of my PCM steam locos with sound, were under $100 - including the Stewart Baldwin switchers which are about the best running plastic locos I have ever seen, mainly thanks to the Canon can motor. Nearly all of them have MSRPs greater than $100, however none of them are current production so I got them mostly via eBay but others from train shows. Not all were used, either. Some were still sealed in the original box, yet cost me only $40-$50. Careful shopping is the key. Don't go crazy because it's something you "really want", keep your head and eBay can be a HUGE bargain marketplace. ANd check feedback before bidding so you don't get stuck paying a known deadbeat.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
If it's cash on the barrel head, yes you can get a lot of Atlas or KATO for under $100. You DO NOT have to pay MSRP. Find a good discount supplier or fleabay and get those nice loco's for under $100. It's all about what you CAN get them for. No need to settle for Athearn RTR, Atlas Trainman or even Atlas Classic (which are nice loco's to be sure).
Here's food for thought.
Don't forget those older Atlas/Rocco or Atlas/Kato locomotives there are still good locomotives.
Either the Athearn RTR or the Atlas TrainMan are nice locomotives.
But!
By shopping on line you can find Atlas Classic for around $100.00
Be wise and check the better on line shops before deciding.
Atlas
One of my favority loco's is an Atlas trainman genset. The MSRP is 119.00 but actual price will be under 100 bucks.
http://www.atlastrainman.com/HOLoco/tmhogenset.htm
Springfield PA
Probably not the type of reply you're expecting........but I've had great results on ebay in winning 8 Proto 2000 HO locomotives "new-in-the-box" ranging from $45-$90. I also won an Atlas SCL U-33C for $60. I agree that hands down, Atlas quality is excellent.
Some of the older run P2K units have minor issues (cracked axles, electrical p/u, oversized windshield wipers) but these are easy to fix. I like the detailing on them, including the etched walkways and operational doors, like the units below.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
While I've come to enjoy Atlas' offerings, I do love Athearn, Stewart & Proto locomotives. For sheer simplicity, you can't beat Athearn BlueBox loco's. Yes they are noisy & yes they don't have all the "details" the latest offerings have but they will last.
I'm still finding new ones at shows, prices are reasonable & in my humble opinion, are a better locomotive to get started out with in this hobby.
Gordon
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
Like many of the others, I feel that Atlas is the best choice, followed by Walthers Proto (formerly Proto), and then lagging behind is Athearn and Athearn RTR (somewhat noisy and finicky on occasion). The rest shall remain nameless.
Rich
Alton Junction
The BEST locos for under $100 are the ones that have an MSRP higher than $100 that you find on sale for less than that.
General evaluation of manufacturers, though, Atlas, Proto 1K/2K (although good luck finding a 2K for under a C note, even at deep discount), Bachmann's Spectrum line (only), and IHC's Command XXV line (now out of production) are good quality for the money. Athearn and Walthers Trainline can be squirrelly, but are usually pretty good. Other less expensive brands: buy at your own risk.