I do not disagree with your advise to play it safe with the lubricants used in any type of expensive machinery be it a toy or a fine wristwatch and I would suggest everyone to heed that good advise. The one thing I keep seeing on every web site I visit referring to lubricants is that somehow synthetic oils are not petroleum.... on the contrary synthetic oils are indeed petroleum based with only the tiniest percentage being a nonpetroleum element. Model train lubricants is a very niche market... and like so many such markets there are wild claims made and outlandish prices paid for what is probably a very basic product. The secret is in marketing not chemistry. In my opinion anthing over $3.00 for a fraction of an once of any mass market lubricant is too much, and keep in mind $2.50 of that is in packaging and advertising.
bogp40 I know some swear by ATF, however in my opinion, many of the small idler gears do have emormous amount of play. Real heavy "goo" for grease doesn't help except to dry out and almost bind. The ATF seem to be the other extreme, I feel that the slick #106 allows for great gear mesh but still stabilizing some of those loosely fitting (wobble) in the gearcase. I have tried ATF and ,sure, it worked great, Don't know if too much was used or the extreme light viscosity allowed to travel out of the gearcase and to places not needed or wanted. Some nosier, higher speed running, especially in older Athearn trucks. The heavier viscous #106 grease quieted them considerably. Go figure? Like reponses to those using ATF and what are your findings.
I know some swear by ATF, however in my opinion, many of the small idler gears do have emormous amount of play. Real heavy "goo" for grease doesn't help except to dry out and almost bind. The ATF seem to be the other extreme, I feel that the slick #106 allows for great gear mesh but still stabilizing some of those loosely fitting (wobble) in the gearcase. I have tried ATF and ,sure, it worked great, Don't know if too much was used or the extreme light viscosity allowed to travel out of the gearcase and to places not needed or wanted. Some nosier, higher speed running, especially in older Athearn trucks. The heavier viscous #106 grease quieted them considerably. Go figure? Like reponses to those using ATF and what are your findings.
I found out about ATF from guys who ran Lionel display layouts at shows. Engines were running hard 8 hours a day for 3 days straight. That's a lot of wear (if not kept lubricated) on irreplaceable but very sturdy post-war Lionel equipment. Their reason for ATF was that it lasted as a lubricant more than one day. Labelle and other model-specific lubricants evaporated under the heat and load and/or didn't cling to the gears well enough. Without ATF, they faced a teardown and relube every night to get ready for the next day. With ATF, they could go all 3 days and then some without a teardown.
None of this contradicts your experience. ATF is in reality hydraulic fluid with lubricant properties added. ATF must fulfill both roles in an automatic transmission for several years without the slightest bit of attention. Is ATF the ideal lubricant under more normal operating conditions for our models? Probably not. But I do like ATF's detergent properties and its ability to cling to gear teeth under extraordinary circumstances.
FWIW, I use Labelle on motor bearings - I feel ATF is too viscous for the high RPM and tight clearances. I prefer ATF to grease on gears and axle bearings due to clinginess and cleanliness. Side and main rods are kind of a toss-up in my mind.
just my experiences
Fred W
papasmurf IF you happen to have some good ol' MMO, [ Marvel Mystery Oil ] it'll work anywhere you need light lube oil. Been around since before I was a kid [ am almost 74 ] and my son has even used it as gun lube. It WILL be used on my small, in-progress HO layout, anywhere it's needed. My 2 cents. TTFN. ......Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH [ CEO & sole section-hand: Abenaqui River HO Shortline RR ]
IF you happen to have some good ol' MMO, [ Marvel Mystery Oil ] it'll work anywhere you need light lube oil. Been around since before I was a kid [ am almost 74 ] and my son has even used it as gun lube. It WILL be used on my small, in-progress HO layout, anywhere it's needed. My 2 cents. TTFN. ......Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH [ CEO & sole section-hand: Abenaqui River HO Shortline RR ]
Papasmurf,
MMO has been tested by several independent labs: Like most automotive lubrication products, it has a base of 50 weight motor oil and a number of 'special' additives. MMO says the additives/ingredients are their secret formula. It works fine in autos - the engines have metal moving parts.
Model trains - Most model train have lots of 'engineering' plastic drive train parts(usually the worm gear is brass) and bronze bearing. You do NOT want to use a petroleum based lubrication product in your $260 Atlas DCC/Sound engine. Or even in your $20 used Athearn 'BB' engine.
You need a synthetic 'plastic compatible' lubricant for these models. I have cleaned out my fair share of 'home lubed' engines that folks have used WD40/MMO/3 in 1/Singer sewing machine oil on. Usually they put too much on the wrong parts, and have a gummy mess with the gear train 'softened' by the oil, and many times ruined. WD40 is some kind of 'fish oil' IIRC, and usually causes no permanent damage. Spend $10-15 and get the correct stuff for you models....
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
I also highly recommend Labelle products...Like those old Brylcreem commericals said "A little dab will do ya".
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
rockislandnut Good ole Labelle lubes. Here is a link that has a lot of Labelle Industries lube info, also at the bottom of page is a video ( You-Tube ) on the lubes. Guy also mentions and shows auto motor oil and ATF fluid as comparison. http://www.all-railroads.com/lablubes.htm
Good ole Labelle lubes.
Here is a link that has a lot of Labelle Industries lube info, also at the bottom of page is a video ( You-Tube ) on the lubes. Guy also mentions and shows auto motor oil and ATF fluid as comparison.
http://www.all-railroads.com/lablubes.htm
Thanks for posting the link for Labelle. Their #102 (light oil) and #106 (graese w/teflon) has worked great for me for many years. As Jim mentions: a little lasts a long time. I couldn't ever think to go cheap, such a small investment to care for all your quite $$$ equipment.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Wadda ya mean I'm old ? Just because I remember gasoline at 9 cents a gallon and those big coal burning steamers.
I strongly "2nd" Jim's use of LaBelle products, for my money they are the best lubricants on the market. I even use them in my clock repair/restorations as they are also "non-gumming" which is also very important.
A lot of times these days you "don't" get what you pay for but in this case you do and the best isn't really that much more money anyhow.
Mark
WGAS
Do not use sewing machine oil/3 in One/petroleum based lubricants - you have engineering plastic gears on most of your engines and they will be affected. You need a synthetic oil to for your models.
Crandell mentioned ATF fluid, and he has had good luck with it over the years. Myself, I have LaBelle oil/grease that must be over 5 years old. A little goes a long way. This is only the second batch of lube that I have bought in 40 + years of modeling!
Do you have a half-used container of Dexron III Mercon auto-transmission fluid? It is safe on your rolling stock and locomotives. I have used it for several years once I learned of it. Grease? Any white lithium grease should be good.
Crandell
My Hob-E-Lube oil is probably 15 yrs old, and I need some grease, so I went searching.....and found I would like a bargain alternative to $7 tubes of lube. The magazine(s) used to mention using sewing machine oil, anybody have extended experience with that? What hacks me off besides the price is that neither the locally owned mom-and-pop hobby store or Hobbytown have any oil during several visits over the past month or so, and few ebay sellers have oil and grease in stock to save on shipping. And it's not time yet for an order to MBKlien or such right now....