Does anyone have any experience in what the pros and cons are to Walther's proto max couplers? They look exactly like Kadees and are cheaper, so what's the catch?
The Proto Max couplers are a little more over-sized than the standard Kadee #5 couplers. Other than that, they're pretty much the same. I think the Proto couplers are made in China, so that would explain why they're cheaper than Kadee couplers (which are US made).
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They are about the same price - Bulk packs usually average a little over a $1/pair. I see Walthers has Proto Max bulk packs on sale for $20 right now(20 pair for $20). I can usually buy the Kadee 148 bulk packs(25 pair) for around $27/pack of 25 pair at most train shows.
I have Proto Max couplers on my Hiawatha cars and they work fine. I like to stay with Kadee couplers due to the wide selection of mounting options available. But if you can save a couple $$'s - go for it - they seem to work fine.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Take one of each, couple 'em up; and pull apart. Let us know which one breaks.
Dave
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steemtrayn Take one of each, couple 'em up; and pull apart. Let us know which one breaks.
You have metal couplers pulling against each other..The Protomax is metal and not a plastic KD wanna bes.
I been using these on some of my newer HO cars I use at the club and have no problems.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Actually they are KD wanna bee's, just metal ones. I'll stick with the original and proven one. The company has done us well all these years, and there's nothing wrong with having something Non chinese on the layout.
Springfield PA
I scored a bunch of free ProtoMax couplers at a couple of train shows, and I've been using them for all upgrades for about two years now.
I agree that they're a little larger than Kadees, and have fewer mounting options, but functionally, they're just as good.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Hamltnblue Actually they are KD wanna bee's, just metal ones. I'll stick with the original and proven one. The company has done us well all these years, and there's nothing wrong with having something Non chinese on the layout.
I never liked being pinned down to one brand of coupler or anything as far as that goes...Now we have a choice of knuckle couplers should the need arise..I still lean toward KD's 148s though..
BRAKIE steemtrayn: Take one of each, couple 'em up; and pull apart. Let us know which one breaks. You have metal couplers pulling against each other..The Protomax is metal and not a plastic KD wanna bes. I been using these on some of my newer HO cars I use at the club and have no problems.
steemtrayn: Take one of each, couple 'em up; and pull apart. Let us know which one breaks.
Yeah, I know that. Just wanna know which one breaks first.
steemtrayn BRAKIE: steemtrayn: Take one of each, couple 'em up; and pull apart. Let us know which one breaks. You have metal couplers pulling against each other..The Protomax is metal and not a plastic KD wanna bes. I been using these on some of my newer HO cars I use at the club and have no problems. Yeah, I know that. Just wanna know which one breaks first.
BRAKIE: steemtrayn: Take one of each, couple 'em up; and pull apart. Let us know which one breaks. You have metal couplers pulling against each other..The Protomax is metal and not a plastic KD wanna bes. I been using these on some of my newer HO cars I use at the club and have no problems.
KD couplers will break they are not bulletproof.
Both couplers uses the antiquated knuckle spring and magnetic uncoupling..
In better than 40 years of playing with HO trains I have had a Kadee coupler break "one" time. When these clones started coming out I bought some and tried them on a few items. They have since been replaced with the Kadees and I will remain 100% Kadee's on my layout.
I suppose if you are running small trains of 10 cars or less they would work but I don't understand the thinking about "saving" any money using them.
You buy a $100+ locomotive and then put cheap couplers on it, sort of reminds me of "recaps" on a Cadillac.
Mark
Hi!
Over several years I've tried various other couplers (usually because they came with a car or kit) and keep coming back to the realization that KDs are the most reliable. No, they are not the cheapest, but you get what you pay for in this situation.
I have not tried the Proto Max couplers, and it sounds like they are OK - so if money (or whatever) is an issue, then I suggest you buy a few and try them out. That being said, I personally support the old adage, "if it ain't broken, don't fix it"!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Ditto
good morning guys, can i ask a stupid question, what is the reason for replacing the couplers that come on the equipment from the factory? ive seen the kadee couplers for sale, some stock comes with them right out of the box, do i need to buy some and replace all of em on my cars? is it best to have all the couplers the same or can you run trains with a mix different couplers as long as they are the same/proper height? thanks
I too have been a Kadee fan since the early days (60's) and stick with them. I remove any non Kadees that come with a kit or finished car and replace them with the real thing. I seldom have any failures and I know that nothing is 100 % non failing, so will stick with Kadee. I can always find a home for all the non Kadee's I remove from the boxes.
I also don't recommend "mixing" brands. I have in the past on a few cars just to see, and usually have them replaced within a week with Kadee.
Bob
thortenney good morning guys, can i ask a stupid question, what is the reason for replacing the couplers that come on the equipment from the factory? ive seen the kadee couplers for sale, some stock comes with them right out of the box, do i need to buy some and replace all of em on my cars? is it best to have all the couplers the same or can you run trains with a mix different couplers as long as they are the same/proper height? thanks
You don't have to replace them but after a while of running there will be a day when you have a couple of cars with kadee's and will see the difference. I started out the same with plastic and switched.
If all you run is the plastic couplers you don't see it right away. Trains will sometimes come apart, coupling sometimes needs some help even when straight, and the occasional broken coupler. With Kadee's the train operation runs smoother in all of those areas and even gives the trains a better look. I would suggest trying a couple of packs, and change one loco and a few cars. Put them side by side and then operate them. I think you'll answer the question yourself.
Another thing that is just as important IMO is metal wheels. If you're running plastic in HO metal wheels will improve the train operation and keep the track cleaner.
Good Luck
wm #734 Does anyone have any experience in what the pros and cons are to Walther's proto max couplers? They look exactly like Kadees and are cheaper, so what's the catch?
Count me as loyal Kadee user. I read here daily complaints about "made in China'. I never use any of the wannabe, They have never made it to my RR. Buy American!!!!!!
jerrold
Forty Niner In better than 40 years of playing with HO trains I have had a Kadee coupler break "one" time. When these clones started coming out I bought some and tried them on a few items. They have since been replaced with the Kadees and I will remain 100% Kadee's on my layout. I suppose if you are running small trains of 10 cars or less they would work but I don't understand the thinking about "saving" any money using them. You buy a $100+ locomotive and then put cheap couplers on it, sort of reminds me of "recaps" on a Cadillac. Mark
Mark,I wish I could say in the 50 plus years I've used KDs I never had one to break..I have had 5 to break but,considering the age of those couplers and the amount of switching I do I suspect it was metal stress along with wear and tear due to old age..I have also drop a car and broke the KD.
Again the ProtoMax isn't a plastic clone and its a good coupler and a opinion we never had before-think how the railroads kept EMD in check with Alco..
Of late I been only replacing the plastic KD wanna bes and using the metal clones with zero problems.
Generally whenever I buy a Walthers passenger car, the first thing I do is replace those droopy, fragile plastic couplers with Kadee's. However, the new "city" passenger cars have the Proto-Max metal couplers, and they seem to work just fine. No droop, positive coupling, just like Kadee's. So for the time being I'll let them go and see what happens. True, they are a little more 'oversize' than the Kadees, but close-coupled, it's hardly noticeable.
But count me as one who just instinctively replaces stock couplers with Kadees whenever I get a new car--kit or RTR. It just gives me a feeling of security.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Thortenney,
No such thing as a stupid question. Years ago I often refrained from asking what I thought was a "stupid" question, but often found out others had the same one in mind.
To answer yours, I believe the switch to KDs goes back to the "old days" when kits and cars that came with couplers (not all did) came with the NMRA "horn hook" type. These were actually fairly reliable, but looked really bad and were a bear to uncouple. KaDee came out with a fairly good representation of the prototype, and it was an excellent piece of engineering, all metal, and made in the USA. While they were not cheap, they had applications for pretty much every car and loco around, and they could be uncoupled with magnet devices or pencil like "wands".
In my experience, mixing different types of couplers often ends up with "hard to couple, hard to uncouple, unwanted uncoupling" and other difficulties. This is not always the case, but in my experience it is often enough not to mix them.
I started in HO in the early 60s, and it wasn't until the mid '70s that I had the money to do a conversion effort. So I fully realize that the cost of the KD's (and new wheelsets that you will eventually want) may prevent one from starting out with them, but eventually you will probably want them.
Thanks everyone for all of your input. I never use plastic couplers unless I run out of KDs anyway, so I think I'll just stick with Kadees unless I see those proto-max's on sale.
I think Proto Max couplers are decent, and they get the job done nearly as well as Kadees. I've had quite a few Proto Max couplers lose their coupler springs and cause problems with trains, so that's something I'd recommend watching out for. Overall, they're pretty good couplers.
I am running a train now that has two Walthers 89 ft flats in it and one of the Proto Max couplers has one spring missing and so far nothing has come uncoupled.
Russell