How many engines needed to pull 100+ car train

[Junctionfan]

I curious to know about what kind of engines other than Proto 2000s would pull a 100 + train up a 2% grade and how many. I use modern rollingstock and use kadee coupler because the modern rollingstock tends to be heavier. I'm interested in the Kato engines and wondering how many should I buy.

[Anonymous]

Buy a bunch of Katos. Brass engines tend to be poor pullers, because their own weight is so much more than plastic engines.

[Anonymous]

You're so lucky to have a layout big enough to pull 100+ car trains. I didn't know you could have that long a train on a layout.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of variebles involved here, How much do the cars weigh, are they all NMRA recommended weight, How freely do the trucks roll, Is some of the 2 percent grade on curves, and what radii are the curves involved, I haven"t had occasion to pull 100 cars up a 2 percent grade, but based on my experience of running hundreds of somewhat shorter Trains with Kato power, useing the Kato SD-90/43 Mac as the motive power of choice, I would think that you would need at least four units to avoid excessive wheelslip, and a possible stall, again depending on all of the variebles involved, Someone else who has done this lately may give you more insight as to the number of units it would actually require to do this than I, Keep us posted on your results, after you have actually pulled the Train, I would be interested to know how many locomotives you had to use, cheers.


Mac

[johncolley]

Well, hello! I am one who enjoys that game. My Stewart FT ABBA set easily pulls 60+ cars with power to spare, and by adding an AB set there I can probably get the other 40 cars and since I am doing 1947, of course I add a caboose! Now, the 2% grade is not the whole length of the train, maybe a third of that, and once at the summit the rest, as they say, is downhill! The only problem was the 24"radii. Larger radius curves are easier on the equipment. I use Kadee couplers throughout and easy rolling metal wheels on all cars. Now, then, does anyone out there have 54 feet to run on?

[philnrunt]

I used 3 Atlas Alcos to tug a 78 car train around a big loop once, the engines had extra weight added and there was no appreciable grade, and we all know what luggers Alcos are! [;)][;)]
You might find a review on the Kato you're thinking of, see how many it's rated to pull and multiply that .
Just as I posted this, I thought of Hawkins Rail Services, in Lafayette In. Their add mentions that they have a 115 car train on rolling display. Look them up in MR and call them and see what they can tell you.

[Junctionfan]

This would be at a club( I wish i had money for a layout big enough to run a long train like that. I really do-shy)..Most of the cars would be stuff like HO atlas tanker, hopper:Walther airsides, autoracks, centerbeams, gondolas, coilcars; Intermountain hoppers; Accurail ACF hoppers; LBF highcube: Genesis highcubes and maybe a brass Overland pressure flow hopper. I trying to model a CN train that starts out NS out of Allentown PA and becomes CN train 334 from Buffalo to Toronto MacMillan Yard. His consist is mostly autoracks, plastic pellet hoppers, funnel flow tankers, gondolas, coil cars, many lumber carrying cars. He often can total an excess of 150 cars and has been know to use NS, CSX and BNSF power.

[Anonymous]

i would use 3 AC4400CW at the front and 2 AC4400CW DPU units on the back, thats how U.P. does it around here.

[bogeys]

As I recall, MR reported the BLI 2-6-6-4 was capable of pulling over 100 cars on straight and level track. Never seen it myself. I have been told some of the Proto 2000 engines pull pretty good too. I have an E8 that has a lot of power but not enough track for 100 cars thats for sure.[xx(]

[Don Gibson]

Too hypothetical:

(My turn)::
How many KATO engines can you afford ?
How many cars do you now own?
Are these $10' Blue Box Athearn - or $30 Intermountains?
100 cars would average somewhere around 60 feet long. How long is your layout?
WHY do I get the feeling this is purely an academic excercise??

Real railroads run approx. 6 - 12 wheel engines for 100 cars and double that up a 2% grade - add another 9 feet. On a 4 X 8' layout that would be about 6 track loops inside each other.

[Anonymous]

I dont know how much a grade would affect it, but we have one club member that regularly pulls a train with 114 Bowser 100 ton hoppers with loads (plus caboose) on our modular layout with 3 Atlas GP40's. Alot of times we have set up where the floors have been less than flat, and have a grade to contend with, but we've never tried to measure it. A full 2 percent grade, I would guess, could be handled by 5 geeps, but a lot depends on the cars too. All of the cars in this train have metal wheels and are weighted at the bottom to alleviate "pull over" on turns.

[Anonymous]

I took two LL p2k SD-9's and pulled 54 cars up a grade right at 2%. On my around the walls layout, the train took up over half the outside loop. These were mostly 40' & 50' transition era cars. A train of modern 85' TOFC's would be 100' long. That would take up both my loops of track!

[Morpar]

Hawkin's Rail Service was mentioned above. Jack normally runs the 115 car train(s) with 3-4 Kato SD90MAC units on the head end, none on the back. Sometimes a caboose, but not always. Now mind you, this is a display layout in a store, little if any grade, but basically 2 large loops. The cars in the train are mostly covered hoppers from various manufacturers, weighted to NMRA standards, with Kadee couplers added. It is my understanding that the wheels are whatever came with the car, but I could be wrong. Jack does have a website, (www.hawkinsrailservices.com) but be forewarned it is not for sales. You could contact him through there for more information. He is always glad to help (pester?!) me when I walk in the door! Good luck.

[orsonroy]

Well, I've got several Mantua Mikados that can EACH pull 100+ car freights on the flat. Of course, Mantua steam is all-metal. Up a 2% grade, I'd say it'd take no more than two engines.

Of course, modern modelers will need several plastic diesels to get the same performance!

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

Well, I've got several Mantua Mikados that can EACH pull 100+ car freights on the flat. Of course, Mantua steam is all-metal. Up a 2% grade, I'd say it'd take no more than two engines.

Of course, modern modelers will need several plastic diesels to get the same performance!

Yeah but they don't have to stop to take on more resin...I mean water....[;)]

[Anonymous]

I would have to agree with AC4400CW CTE.
BNSFrailfan.
I tell you what you pull a 100 car train up a 2% grade your going to need some real big time power.

[Anonymous]

122 car coal train: prototype: BNSF - Powder River

Cars: E&C Shops / LBF Bethgons with Kadee trucks and couplers

Locos: 5 Kato SD70MAC / 4 SD70MAC and 1 AC4400 - 3 at the point - 2 DPU

Runs perfect - at our club layout here - at home I have no space for such a train at the moment.
I control the train with a german computer control system called Gahler + Ringstmeyer MpC-Classic http://www.gahler.de/index1025683547.htm.

G+R MpC-Classic isn´t easy to declare: The engines are DC but layout is DCC !

A Personalcomputer controls my layout but the interface between me and the layout is a "normal" controlboard.

With this system such a train with rear end helpers is no problem.

I change the Bethgons into Athearns - looks much better than the LBF!

[Anonymous]

the BLI A-class mallet will haul 170+ loaded cars on the level, would assume it would be capable of hauling 100 cars up a 2% grade without much need for assistance.

I have a Mantua Heavy Mountain and it has no prblem hauling the longest trains we can strring together at my club (about 40-50 cars) although it slows down slightly going around our 30" radius bends. With a pair (another club member has an identical engine) they are more than capable of hualing the train at high speed around the layout.

[AntonioFP45]

If ANY OF YOU are able or already pull trains this long.........video record it and post a link to it! Those locomotives would really be earning their keep!

Cheers & 10-4

[Anonymous]

I can't manage 100 car trains, but here's a list of the best locos for haulage (in my experience). All are HO.

Bachmann Dash 8-40CW - this is amazing - it will haul on its own a train that gives a pair of Athearn Dash 9s some trouble. Three of these would probably handle this length of train, I only have one (bought from an LHS that had picked up a batch at clearance prices - cost me about 2/3rds of full retail and was excellent value for money).

Athearn BB F7A/B (Super-Powered version). These are superb haulers and I'd suspect if you built a set of an A and several Bs - all powered (a consist used by the Chicago Great Western), it'd have little or no trouble with 100+ car trains.

The Athearn DD40 could be made into a real heavy-hauler by adding lead ballast. I've done this with my single-motor version and it now weighs about twice as much. Sadly, the single motor isn't really up to the job - mine won't run steadily at very low speeds as the flywheels aren't big enough - for some reason Athearn fitted the "slimline" flywheels from their SW7! If I can uprate the motor (or ideally buy another and convert to twin-motors) this loco should be good.

I'd also suggest trying the new Bachmann FTs - an ABBA set of these (B units are supposedly due this year) should be able to haul this size of train. The same could be said for their GP40/GP50, though I suspect these are a little lighter. I intend buying an A-B set of their FTs when both are available in CB&Q livery - will be adding detailing and a drawbar coupler between the units as per prototype.

[BRAKIE]

Well,The only experience I have was watching a 105 car train ran across the club's layout which is a single track with passing sidings point to point layout with the steepest grade being 1.7%..We used 4 Atlas GP40s on the point and 3 Atlas SD35s on the rear shoving-we use Atlas units due to the closely match speeds..Now we do not follow RP20.1 for car weight.. The cars use on the layout uses the factory weight that comes with the car-only exception is front runners and impact cars we add weight to those light cars....We use metal wheels..
Anyhoo,that was a very impressive sight since our normal train length is 35-50 cars during our normal operations.This is due to passing siding length.

[Anonymous]

In N scale the longest train I've had was 84-88 cars. I was able to pull them with a minimum of 2 engines but I recommend 3 just in case.

-Matt

[darth9x9]

Hey AntonioFP45,

Do you have broadband? I have a 350 +/- MB video that shows half of my 114+ coal drag. It is very cool. LMK and I will put it on the web and let you download it.

If you don't have braodband access, I can mail you a CD. Contact me at [e-mail]

[Junctionfan]

The longest train I have seen was at my club. We had 2 Proto SD60M pull a 70 car train toward our marshalling yard up 1.5% hill. That was a when we were hauling just CN trains. Now we are modeling CP and they haul rediculously large trains. Fort Erie, Ontario (other side is Buffalo) CP has run 160 car train on route to their Toronto MacTier Yard. They use 6 different SD40-2 for that. Most of the time their long trains use an SD90 on the front and AC4400 than 2 SD40-2. One time someone took a picture of a CP train with a CEFX SD90, UP SD70M, SOO SD60M and 2 CSX AC4400CW. Now thats power.

[SSW9389]

On our layout in Radcliff, KY we have a member that has run 100+ car Atlas HO coal gons with either four Kato or four Genesis locomotives. The layout has 36" radius curves and grades in excess of two percent. All the cars perform uniformly. It is interesting to watch the train while part of it is climbing and another part is going downgrade. The only real problem with this heavy of a train is when the slack runs in, especially on a curve. This tends to pu***he cars off the rails. A steady speed and close watch on the train are key to safe operation.[8D]

[BRJN]

Prototype info:

It took Penn Central 7 locomotives (GP-38 or lower horsepower) to move a 100-car train. They actually NEEDED 4, but bankruptcy really cut into the maintenance budget., so things would break down. If you dispatch 7 locomotives, there ought to still be 4 running at the end of the day, when you get to (or close to) where you wanted to go.

Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

I had a AHM Cliner pull the equal of 120 cars in a weight pulling contest on a level
track.I could have pulled more then the 3 pounds but backed away out of fear of
burning out the motor.
David