Howdy! I recently decided to join an HO scale club in my area, but being a N scaler for the past 8 years, I do not know as much as I used to about HO. Also, my HO equipment is not up to par and I have decided to just invest in new equipment. I have heard good things about Proto 2000 models and in my searches I found a decently priced P2k SD-7. My question is: can anyone provide any information as to the performance of this locomotive or similar ones? Or better yet, tell about their experiences? Links to reviews are fine as well. I just do not want to put money into it and have it go bad on me.Thanks!
Chessie HO and SP N in Collegehttp://collegerailroad.blogspot.com/
Howdy back.
The P2K SD7 had several runs. Back in the 90's it came in the typical bigger Proto blue box. The first run used Athearn style coupler boxes with the little plastic press on cover, with horn hook style couplers. The second blue box run came with a screw-on coupler box and NMRA approved knuckle couplers (wording designating this on the outside of the box). Then last year or the year before they ran a Walthers updated version, which comes in the standard P2K gray box.
All run very smoothly at slow speeds and beyond due to their Kato-cloned drive, and the detail of the also very good. There is no "cracked gear" issue with these since the truck is different.
I have heard instances of the earlier runs having some drive train chatter issues due to worm gear sloppiness or something but I think that is fairly rare. I have owned some and never had the problem. I'm sure the Walthers gray box version resolved the issue, to the extent there was one.
I'm a DC guy so I can't speak to how DCC ready they are. I think the light boards use more juice than DCC guys like and consider a lot of Protos to be "power hogs". For DC, I love the constant light board.
I think they are great locomotives. I didn't care for the very early runs with the Athearn style coupler boxes however, but if I found one of those at a good price, I wouldn't let that issue stop me.
- Douglas
espee8110 Howdy! I recently decided to join an HO scale club in my area, but being a N scaler for the past 8 years, I do not know as much as I used to about HO. Also, my HO equipment is not up to par and I have decided to just invest in new equipment. I have heard good things about Proto 2000 models and in my searches I found a decently priced P2k SD-7. My question is: can anyone provide any information as to the performance of this locomotive or similar ones? Or better yet, tell about their experiences? Links to reviews are fine as well. I just do not want to put money into it and have it go bad on me.Thanks!
I have two of the "older" Proto SD9's which are quite similar to the SD7. They came DCC Ready, and I installed D13SRJ decoders in them.
More recently, I bought two Walthers Proto 2000 SD7's. They came with a DCC sound decoder installed.
Both the older and the newer locos are great. They run smooth, they pull a ton of weight, and they look good. Proto 2000 diesels have always been reliable both before the acquisition by Walthers and after.
As the other reply indicated, the older Proto 2000 diesels had some split gear problems, and that included the SD7 and the SD9. Walthers sells the replacement gears in such instances. Not all Proto 2000 diesels exhibit the problem because the bad gears were limited to one production run, but that production run was extensive. If a particular Proto 200 diesel has the split gear (maybe cracked is the better term) problem, you know it immediately because of the clicking sound as the loco runs down the track.
Rich
Alton Junction
I have over a dozen of the SD-7/9s and have never had a problem with any of them, no cracked gears either.
My experience tells me they will give you many years of good service assuming they are wll cared for.
Mark
P2K SD7-9 run decent. Kato-style trucks help, but the gearing has a bit of slop in it, so downhill running with a fair load behind is less than premium. The ones I have are early run, so I had to drill out the frame, carefully tapping the threads to screw in the coupler boxes. Use a flat head screw to mount the couplers, otherwise the body won't seat onto the frame properly. Might still need to do a little filing to get things to work right. The coupler mounts of the frame are very easy to twist off, use caution. If it happens, the couplers can get body mounted. The couplers do stick out a bit; I use a short shank on mine to reduce this, but body mounting can bring them in a bit more.
The stock board has all kinds of extra gobbledygook on it, so replacement with a board-style decoder helps. You will need to get a TCS T1 or equivalent, with a harness from 9-pin to 8-pin to get it to fit. A direct 8-pin plugin like a TCS DP2X won't fit.
Easy to install a board-style decoder. I would take the engine all apart, remove the peanut butter "lube" the factory put in, and use good stuff. Lower left shows bottom truck plate and worm cover with peanut butter. Bottom engine now has LED lighting.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
One thing not mentioned, is the gear ratio of the 6 axle P2K units. I doubt that the 18:1 ratio has been changed in recent runs to a more compatible 14:1 like 90% of all other offerings.
I have 2 SD7s from the origional run (large blue box where the shell is off the chassis. As mentioned succesive runs did change the couplers and also solved a tight truck problem. The origional units didn't have enough side motion of the truck causing possible derailments at turnouts of slight uneven/ level track conditions. I had called The tech dept and was sent new worm covers to solve the problem. Apparently the cover fingers would hold the truck too tight to the fram not allowing any side movement to allow the wheels to keep contact w/ trackwork. Filing or draging the cover fingers over sandpaper will do the same as the replacement cover. I actually modified on of the replacement covers to allow 1 truck to have slightly more movement. I'm not sure if this was corrected on the 2nd run, but any of these problems have been eliminated on the gray box units.
These SDs have run for extensive hours during open house at my club and never had any issues at all. They do have that driveline slop that make downhill running to cause surging from pulling a long train. Now this may not be evident in your use, I used these units to pull 30+ loaded hoppers, that's a substantial load pushing against the 2 units.
The lowered gearing will also only allow you to run with other like units, oter proto 18:1 Es, SD50/60 ect. Yes you could speed match if using DCC, but you can't make them run faster, only adjust and slow otherwise perfectly good running 14:1 locos.
As a first engine to aquire to run in a club setting, ther is nothing wrong w/ these, however, I would suggest a different engine that will MU with most everything the other club members will be running.
I have run my P2K SD50s for many years as well as the SD7s, and have stuck some of my Atlas GPs in the mix. The Atlas or other 14:1 drives always try to run much faster on startup and through the entire operatind range. I actually had run a Atlas GP38 so much w/ them that some bad driveline noises started in the GP from it always trying to push the SDs. Just some advice from my experiences.
Other issues w/ the early P2K SDs id the handrails are ever so fragile. Even though I handle w/ extreme care, I have broken the "2piece) potions of those rails a few times now.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I have one from the first release, PRR #7607. Details are very, very good, and running is smooth. It is a 6-axle loco, so it does not like 18 inch radius that much. Altough, I have a small layout with few sharp Peco Setrack turnouts, and it never derails on them. It may slow down on sharper trackage, but it will go through.
I have put TCS A2X decoder in it, because this decoder had outputs for 1,5V LEDS on the loco. One of my favourite USA engines.
I think the SD7-9 has 14:1 gearing. After taking out the P2K board, it does run quite a bit faster than before. I have a Atlas/Kato GP7 (same TCS A4X decoder) that it runs very well with. I think I had to slow down the SD7, using CV5 (top speed) and CV6 (speed at 50%).
The bigger P2K SD's have goofy gear ratios. SD50 and SD60 have 18:1, SD45 has 9:1 when done, 18:1 in the trucks with a 2x worm.
The recently announced SD9 from Walthers now promotes a 14:1 helical geared truck. Highly unlikely they will have any replacement trucks available for sale.
Allow me to be a slight downer of the group. I own one of the grey-box "Limited Edition" PRR SD7 8588 (one of two PRR SD7s prototypically) and have one minor problem with it on DCC: It shorts out. I'm not sure if the problem lies in the truck or if it's as easy as the DC jumper plug is kerbusted, so I'll update'cha if you wish when I can get it fixed, but you may find if it is the plug, that you may have a similar issue.
-Morgan
I have one of the older Rio Grand #5303 SD 7. When I first got it, it did not pull very well. 12 to 15 cars where its max. After some run time the wheels must have broke in and it now pulls 20 + cars so I am happy.
Stock headlight is awful, I have replaced the lights with LED's and it sure helped.
Could not get the body shell clips to fit in the chassis for some reason? So I finally had to clip them off, body fits fine now but it needs to be picked up from the fuel tank.
Over all a great engine.
Ken
I hate Rust
Wow. I am glad there are as many of y'all with experience as there are. I have been convinced that this is a good locomotive for the price, and the purpose. When it gets in and I get to testing it, I will let post the results. Fortunately, this is the model that comes with sound and DCC, so I will hopefully not be too busy with soldering and the other joys of decoder installation. Thanks guys!
My first experience with the P2K line was a Walthers PRR PA unit w/o sound and DCC ready with a 8 pin plug. I was brand new at the time to model railroading so a very knowledgable DCC club member that I had just joined installed a Digitrax motor decoder for me. It would run great for a while then quit responding then start working again (very frustating). It ended up that one of the power leads had a intermittant short in it. My friend replaced the wire and a year later there have been no issues. Wiith a powered PB unit they will pull a 29 car loaded coal drag with a cabin car up a 3% grade with no issue.
I have also purchased a LL P2k PRR E7A and it runs great with no issues. With both of these units I have since added detail parts and love them both.
Curt Webb
The Late Great Pennsylvania Railroad
http://s1082.photobucket.com/albums/j372/curtwbb/
Decoder install on these puppies is actually not so hard. Unless you get an early (brown box) P2K or dumb lucky with the grey-box Limited models (I have an SW8 in this category) they come with a plug on them, and possibly two different. SO all you have to do is take the shell off, remove the dummy plug (which is what I think is causing my problem, I hope...) and plug the new one in. easy as pi.
Funny coming across this thead, I just purchased a Walthers gray box SD9 DRGW 5307 with sound and dcc. This was purchased new in a box (3/16) but prbly has sat around. I am totally inexperienced to the point I don't even have a layout yet, just a test track. I have managed to collect quite an inventory with high hopes. I have NCE power cab dcc and this unit does not run smoothly until I hit about 47 on the throttle. Prior it chugs (almost sounds as if its missing) and has a stop and go momentum with some shaking in the 5 - 10 range. Any help on this is greatly appreciated and hope this adds to the discussion.
Hi Dashingdan:
Welcome to the forums!
The first thing I would suggest doing with your SD9 is cleaning all of the old grease out of the trucks. To do this properly you will have to remove the trucks from the locomotive and take them completely apart. You can then wash out the old grease with isopropyl alcohol. Once the bits are clean you will be able to inspect the gears for flash or possibly cracks which may be contributing to the rough running.
You can buy lubricants specifically designed for use with model locomotives. You will need some grease as well as some light oil. The grease goes on the gears and the oil is used on the shafts. Do not over lubricate, a little goes a long way. Most modellers use Labelle products:
https://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/430-106
The light oil can also be used on the motor bearings. Don't put oil on the commutator (brushes).
There is another alternative and that is Nano Oil. It is more expensive but it has amazing lubricating qualities. I would suggest the #10 and #85 grades in the small tubes.
http://nano-oil.com/
You may have some cracked gears which are easy to replace. I am not an expert on replacing the gears but I believe these are suitable replacements:
http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH60024
Regards
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
bogp40I have 2 SD7s from the origional run (large blue box where the shell is off the chassis. As mentioned succesive runs did change the couplers and also solved a tight truck problem. The origional units didn't have enough side motion of the truck causing possible derailments at turnouts of slight uneven/ level track conditions. I had called The tech dept and was sent new worm covers to solve the problem. Apparently the cover fingers would hold the truck too tight to the frame not allowing any side movement to allow the wheels to keep contact w/ trackwork. Filing or draging the cover fingers over sandpaper will do the same as the replacement cover. I actually modified one of the replacement covers to allow 1 truck to have slightly more movement. I'm not sure if this was corrected on the 2nd run, but any of these problems have been eliminated on the gray box units.
I too have two SD7's - big boxes and they both derail on a gentle curve where the super elevation stops. Other six axle locos manage the curve without a hitch. I was suspecting the worm gear clip and some flash on the frame casting I filed off the flash and sandpapered the bottoms of the clip to allow the truck to rock a little more but that hasn't seemed to help. I did it on the truck that derails, maybe I should perform the fix on the other truck also? Presumably you replaced both clips at the same time?
hirsutus bogp40 I have 2 SD7s from the origional run (large blue box where the shell is off the chassis. As mentioned succesive runs did change the couplers and also solved a tight truck problem. The origional units didn't have enough side motion of the truck causing possible derailments at turnouts of slight uneven/ level track conditions. I had called The tech dept and was sent new worm covers to solve the problem. Apparently the cover fingers would hold the truck too tight to the frame not allowing any side movement to allow the wheels to keep contact w/ trackwork. Filing or draging the cover fingers over sandpaper will do the same as the replacement cover. I actually modified one of the replacement covers to allow 1 truck to have slightly more movement. I'm not sure if this was corrected on the 2nd run, but any of these problems have been eliminated on the gray box units. I too have two SD7's - big boxes and they both derail on a gentle curve where the super elevation stops. Other six axle locos manage the curve without a hitch. I was suspecting the worm gear clip and some flash on the frame casting I filed off the flash and sandpapered the bottoms of the clip to allow the truck to rock a little more but that hasn't seemed to help. I did it on the truck that derails, maybe I should perform the fix on the other truck also? Presumably you replaced both clips at the same time?
bogp40 I have 2 SD7s from the origional run (large blue box where the shell is off the chassis. As mentioned succesive runs did change the couplers and also solved a tight truck problem. The origional units didn't have enough side motion of the truck causing possible derailments at turnouts of slight uneven/ level track conditions. I had called The tech dept and was sent new worm covers to solve the problem. Apparently the cover fingers would hold the truck too tight to the frame not allowing any side movement to allow the wheels to keep contact w/ trackwork. Filing or draging the cover fingers over sandpaper will do the same as the replacement cover. I actually modified one of the replacement covers to allow 1 truck to have slightly more movement. I'm not sure if this was corrected on the 2nd run, but any of these problems have been eliminated on the gray box units.
Both trucks were removed and the worm cover fingers were both modified. I only allowed one to have slight mvement and allowed greater play on the other. Very similar to setting rolling stock trucks to track but not wobble. If too much is taken off both clips, you will experience body roll/ torque shifting. I seemed to have trouble more on a leading truck entering turnout. run long hood forward, gave more side play to the front truck. May not make any difference, but has solved the problem and has never derailed since.
The Life-Like (pre-Walthers) Proto 2000 engines were interesting. I'm guessing different models were made for them by different manufacturers or something. I have several old LL Proto E-units and SD-7/SD-9 engines that run great, and I have a couple of GP-9s that really never ran well. As noted, some engines had trouble with the broken plastic axles, some engines were built differently and never that problem.
I only have one Walthers Proto engine, an E-7, and it's a great engine. I think a lot of the problems the old LL Proto engines had were fixed by Walthers.