Coupler conversion/wheelset help

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by enduringexp

I have viewed the Kadee coupler application charts and it shows that my Athearn 85' flats, 86' flats, and 86' hi-cubes need a #27 coupler. Does anyone know what else fits?

I have an MDC/Roundhouse 60' bulkhead flat that came with plastic wheels. I have measured them, and they appear to be 36", but my eyesight can't be trusted for such small items. Do most later era freight cars use 36" wheels? Any recommendations?
- Tim

The #27 is an is an underset shank version of the #5 in plastic. It's for cars that sit too low. if you don't have a coupler touching metal, I'd sub the #47 and if you use tight radii with 85' cars - # 41 is a longer version.

Most Athearn and MDC cars use 33" wheels on their freight cars. You would need better eybealls or a caliper to verify. Try 33's. You can always go larger.

[Anonymous]

Rather than take a chance, I opted for the proper Kadee couplers. I guess it is only fair, as they are the only company to make a conversion table available. That being the case, why should I give my money to the other companies that don't take the time to publi***heir fitment guides? I also ordered a bunch of 33" and 36" P2K wheelsets, so we will see what fits best. Thanks for all the help!!
Tim

[Don Gibson]

SIMPLE EXPLANATION::

Most ATHEARN equipment is low for KD couplers - and has always been..

The KD 27 compensates for this. If you don't want to buy them, DONT.
Buy what ever you like - but don't complain if you have problems.

[Anonymous]

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Display.taf?itemnumber=47257 You may have to type in 47257 in their item box on their page to bring it up.
The wheelset subject gets a little more complicated since model car manufacturers use more than one manufacturer type of truck.
For instance, Athearn & Accurail use Andrews & Bettendorf.
MDC use Arch, Bettendorf & Fox.
Walthers use Andrews, Arch, Bettendorf.
KD use Andrews,Arch, Barber, Bettendorf & Vulcan.

Generally Athearn, MDC, Walthers & AccuRail seem to accept Proto 2000. Be careful here, since
Proto sells both smooth back wheels and ribbed back wheels, depending upon the era the
prototype had them in use, (1920s etc).


But, Atlas 33" caboose wheels fit Athearn 33" cars perfectly.
And then, you have the Intermountains, a premium all metal axle too. Because of their extra 1/2 oz weight they work well for flats, empty gondolas & empty coal hoppers..
Lots of exceptions.

Not only do up-graded wheel sets vary in length but also in free rolling ability and then that
takes you to another question. How much is too much especially if you are doing a lot of yard/switching work.

By comparison, upgrading to KDs is a walk thru the park. To compensate for Athearn lowriders modelers have substituted 36" to correct coupler height.

For all those that may wi***o consider doing it right www.reboxx.com an after market maker
of dozens of up-graded wheel sets publish a wheel application chart for 33",36", steam loco tender & electric.

I do have some extra copies if you want me to mail one to you.

[cacole]

McHenry standard and scale size Knuckle Spring Couplers are direct replacements for Kadee #5s. McHenry also makes underset and overset shank, short, medium and long, the same as Kadee's choices. I have found McHenry's new knuckle spring couplers to be sturdy and reliable. Granted, they are still plastic and can't take a hard full-speed coupling without breaking, but you shouldn't be doing that to any coupler. Early McHenry couplers were very brittle, but they have improved immensely.

As far as the wheel size question is concerned, I always try to keep an ample supply of both 33 and 36 inch wheels on hand. By holding one up next to the original and looking at them from the end, you should be able to determine if they are the same size or not.

While on the subject of replacement wheelsets, I have recently replaced over 250 of my Kadee metal wheelsets with LBF, because the LBFs roll so much better than Kadee, even in a Kadee truck.

[Anonymous]

So, orsonroy, are you saying I could probably buy a bunch of say, Kadee #5's and just shim up or down to make them fit? The #27's that Kadee calls for are considered medium underset shank, so I imagine they are medium length with a lower than center shank. I could use #5's and just drop them down with a shim or a new draft box? This is all new to me. I am trying all sources I can to learn what I need to know, but you guys here are the best and easiet.

I wasn't worried about Kadee's mating with others, but whether others would fit and work properly. I don't have a hobby shop near, so all my purchases have to be sight unseen. The same goes for the wheelsets. I was planning on getting P2K wheelsets, but I am unsure as to whether I needed 33" or 36". I will get some of both and just use the ones I don't need as static display. Thanks for the help!!

[Anonymous]

Kadee #27 have a medium length underset shank. The shank or part that comes out of the gear box attaches at the bottom of the actual coupler. Othe manufacturers will list theirs as medium underset. I don't know theother numbering systems. As for wheels, I take actual measurement for the diameter of the wheel on the tread. 28" wheels are .323 Inches in diameter in HO. 33" are.379", 36" are .413", and 38" are .437. Most modern 100 ton trucks us 36" whells

[Anonymous]

Kadees are, in my opnion, the best couplers. They will work with other brands of knuckle couplers such as McHenry and Bachmann E-Z mates and have been a standard for many years. As I understand it, they offer a special mounting kit for the Athearn cars you mention - this replaces the stock mounting with a system that does not rely on the trucks to swing the coupler mounting arms in a similar manner to most full-length passenger cars.

As far as wheels are concerned, this is more of a problem. I find Lifelike Proto wheelsets fit well in Athearn trucks - these are available in 28in, 33in and 36in sizes. Your best bet may be to buy one pack of each to check - 33in and 36in wheels are fairly common so you're unlikely to waste money by doing this.

[orsonroy]

Virtually any of the plastic knuckle couplers will mate with Kadees. Sargeant couplers won't mate with Kadees, and Accumates don't like to mate with Kadees under certain circumstances. So you can buy any of the newer couplers made by Life Like, Bachmann or Intermountain (most RTR cars come equipped with either Bachmann or Accumate couplers).

Keep in mind that all of the plastic couplers, with the exception of Accurail's, are relatively fragile. You get what you pay for, and plastic couplers are cheap. They're also not available in as many styles, shapes, and configurations as Kadees, meaning that you'll be falling back on Kadees anyway for certain special circumstances. If you do start buying plastic couplers, only buy either the sort with metal knuckle springs, or Accumates. Kadee's don't break or generally fail at all, unless a car happens to meet the concrete floor suddenly. I've had ALL brands of plastic couplers fail on me at one time or another, so I no longer use them.

One other thing to keep in mind is that you don't HAVE to use all those fancy Kadee "special use" couplers anyway. Most experienced modelers who use Kadees only use the standard #5 (or now the #58 scale coupler), and if necessary, convert the car, or shim the existing coupler box, to accept the standard-sized Kadee coupler box. It really saves time, effort, money and frustration when you know how to do this, because you'll never run into parts issues when you keep an inventory of just one sort of coupler around! I now use nothing but Kadee #58's, and figure out how to get them onto odd (and non-NMRA compliant) cars and engines.

As for which metal wheelsets you should use to convert your plastic wheelsets, get yourself either a scale rule or scale calipers. You'll end up using them for all sorts of modeling projects anyway, and they'll be able to tell you exactly what diameter wheels you'll need to get. As for axle length, you'll have to measure the length between the bearing surfaces, and find a wheelset that matches. Lots of manufacturers are now making all sorts of metal wheelsets, including some lines that include many different axle lengths. The most popular manufacturers of metal wheelsets include Kadee, Jay Bee, Intermountain, Like Like, Bowser and Roundhouse (possibly in that order).

Again, you can either buy wheelsets with specific axle lengths for specific cars, or you can lay in an inventory of one type of wheelset for all your cars, and change out trucks when and if necessary. I've found that this is a LOT simpler to do, especially when coupler to "the tool", a reamer for truck bearings. I've standardized on Life Like wheelsets as a compromise between cost and good performance. They don't give me any problems, and train performance and track cleanliness have REALLY improved. I now don't allow plastic wheelsets on my track.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for trying, Chuck, but you missed the point. I know about the KADEE table and that metal wheels are better than plastic, but....

I want to know what OTHER manufacturers couplers will interchange with the #5 and #27 Kadee's, and how do I figure out what size wheels are on my freight cars. Are they 33", 36", etc. They are plastic now, but I want to change to metal.

I know there are a bunch of coupler manufacturers, and they make couplers for many cars, but I can't find any listings for what they fit. I don't want to be FORCED into buying Kadee's only because I can't find info on the others. I may buy Kadee's anyway, but I want to be able to compare.

[Anonymous]

You have found the KD conversion/ explanation straight forward. You will not find
that true with wheel set upgrades.
This is because of four sizes. 28,33,36 & 38 and because of different axle lengths.One set may fit an Athearn car will may not fit an Atlas car etc.

NMRA specifies a maximum length but there is no minimum, thus the variation in many axle lengths. For starters http://www.nmra.org/beginner/wheelsets.html and http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/002/197xvpbs.asp

Also consider buying the"Truck Tuner for approx $12.00
www.micromark.com and type in 82838 in item number. Click on description for an exploded picture.

[Anonymous]

I have viewed the Kadee coupler application charts and it shows that my Athearn 85' flats, 86' flats, and 86' hi-cubes need a #27 coupler. Does anyone know what else fits? I am not against Kadee, but I would like to comparison shop. Also, I need to make sure I am getting the correct size wheelsets. I have an MDC/Roundhouse 60' bulkhead flat that came with plastic wheels. I have measured them, and they appear to be 36", but my eyesight can't be trusted for such small items. Do most later era freight cars use 36" wheels? Any recommendations?
As always,
Thanks for any help!!
Tim