Trivia question: first Pacific class locos

[robengland]

A trivia question: which railroad had the first Pacific class locos?

(just because i recently learnt the answer [:D])

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by robengland

A trivia question: which railroad had the first Pacific class locos?

(just because i recently learnt the answer [:D])

[:D][:D][:D]

VERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRY FUNNNNNNNNNNNY !!!!!!!!!!

[dknelson]

I seem to recall that the first ever Pacific was built for the New Zealand railways, hence the name Pacific. But then I remember that someone came up with a photo of an even older Milwaukee Road 4-6-0 that the railroad had added a little tiny rear pony truck too, presumably for tracking when running backwards, as opposed to balancing the firebox weight as on a true Pacific (just as there were lumber railroad 2-8-2s that were not true Mikes because the trailing truck played no weight-bearing function). I believe the MIlw Rd's experiment was short lived and it was re-converted to a ten-wheeler soon thereafter, but those are my answers: the first true Pacific was for the New Zealand RR and the first 4-6-2 was Milwaukee Road.
If I win, what's my prize? Does Mookie bake me cookies?
Dave Nelson

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dknelson

I seem to recall that the first ever Pacific was built for the New Zealand railways, hence the name Pacific. But then I remember that someone came up with a photo of an even older Milwaukee Road 4-6-0 that the railroad had added a little tiny rear pony truck too, presumably for tracking when running backwards, as opposed to balancing the firebox weight as on a true Pacific (just as there were lumber railroad 2-8-2s that were not true Mikes because the trailing truck played no weight-bearing function). I believe the MIlw Rd's experiment was short lived and it was re-converted to a ten-wheeler soon thereafter, but those are my answers: the first true Pacific was for the New Zealand RR and the first 4-6-2 was Milwaukee Road.
If I win, what's my prize? Does Mookie bake me cookies?
Dave Nelson

Without disagreeing with Dave's answer, George H. Drury's book "Guide to North American Steam Locomotives," notes on page 34, "In 1886 George S. Strong of the Lehigh Valley designed a double-firebox Camelback 4-6-2 which was soon rebuilt as a 4-6-0." Is this a trick question, or what ?
Bob
NMRA Life 0432

[robengland]

Not a trick question but a tricky one. For every source that says A someone comes out with another that says B.

I agree that a trailing truck that doesn't carry load doesn't count as a Pacific - it is all about expanding the firebox. But I had never heard about the Lehigh Valley example.

New Zealand Railways made their own Pacifics by modifying 4-6-0s, prior to ordering Baldwin's first Pacifics delivered in 1901. I haven't been able to find out when they made their own but it won't be as far back as the Lehigh Valley ones.

So despite my national pride, I may have to yield to Bob on this one [:I]

[tutaenui]

The first pacific type was the Lehigh Valley camelback Loco "Duplex" built in 1886, later rebuilt into a conventional 4-6-0. The 1892 Milwaukee 4-6-2's can be considered as obese ten wheelers. The next 4-6-2 to apear was a one off for a railway in West Australia in 1897. Perhaps "pre-pacifics" is a better term for these loco's, for the 13 strong Baldwin built 1901 NZR Q class had all the features of the modern pacific, features that were to shape locomotive design for the next 30 years. Incidently the name pacific was first used to describe some Alco's built for the Northern Pacific in 1903.
NZR also claims the first mountain class 4-8-2's the 18 strong homebuilt De Glen compound X class of 1907.

[Gunneral]

The first class of locomotive to be specificaly named `Pacific` was the New Zealand Government Railways 4-6-2 of 1901 built by Baldwin, probably because Baldwin called it `The Pacific order`!

[tutaenui]

I stand by my claim that Alco coined the classification "Pacific" In fact it can be quite accurately dated to Feb 1903 when Alco standardised on the Whyte system of locomotive classification and also the type names. The first time "Pacific" appeared in the press was Oct 1903 refering to some 4-6-2's built for the Rock Island. Actually Baldwin was very shy about publisizing the NZR Q class. Probably because it was quite revolutionary by the current Americian standards. Not only was it a4-6-2 but also had piston valves and outside Walschaerts valve gear.The feeling was that in a conservative industry the failure of such a radical design would reflect unfavourably on Baldwin.