Was just at Arnies Trains he had a whole box of Athearn blue box ATSF flat cars going for $2.99 each i bought a ADM hopper for $4.99, I like what you can do with the blue box kits they are excellent for kitbashing projects to much glue on the Athearn ready to run cars hard to change out the couplers etc,used a blue box tank car frame and a Tyco Arco tank car to get rid of the old horn hook couplers will be doing two more in the near future,like some of the other posters have said they are still out there in quanity and for reasonable prices.
If you watch eBay you can usually find BB Athearn kits offered. Many times the prices are too high when you add the shipping. My past attempts to sell BBs on eBay have failed, even with low shipping and 3 kits grouped with less than $10 starting bids. I figure, if I can't get at least $3.50 a piece for them, I'll keep them! Before moving to western Colorado I bought and sold at dozens of swap meets and train shows each year. Out here I'm at least 3 hours from shows, so I have to rely on eBay.
I have been away from the hobby for a little while. I understand Athearn's decision to discontinue this line of products, and reading this thread from start to finish has got me to thinking. I was introduced to the hobby by my Grandfather, a modeler that hand laid his track, made his own turnouts ( one of my first lessons was soldering rails together to create the frog ) and he gave me his almost complete collection of MR's dating back to the 40's. I remember reading all the old article about modeling on a "Shoe String" budget. I have been working on the same 4X8 layout for almost 3 years, using modern methods. I looked at these kits, when I was a kid as a gateway to being able to build what are considered craftsman kits, being able someday to "Super Detail" my equipment that sort of thing. BB kits were a good way to teach myself through trial and error how to achieve the level of model building I aspire to. I think this is just another reflection of today's desire for instant gratification, in general. I guess that same since of accomplishment, (the feeling this is something I built) from completing a simple BB kit can still be achieved by opening a box and putting the car on the rails huh. Please don't misunderstand my post as "chest beating" , or being a "real modeler" ( <-----one day I might be one of these), just an opinion and observation.
Brad
blownout cylinderHow ironic. People don't like to build these kits so they get these kits built by some dude or dudette in China or wherever(lets face it, folks, that is what they are essentially doing-they are not mass produced out of some machine) and then kvetch about the quality, price, or what have you.... I like Accurail, simply because I can make of there cars what I need them to be...
People don't like to build these kits so they get these kits built by some dude or dudette in China or wherever(lets face it, folks, that is what they are essentially doing-they are not mass produced out of some machine) and then kvetch about the quality, price, or what have you....
I like Accurail, simply because I can make of there cars what I need them to be...
And the good news for those of you who can beat their chests and proclaim that they are real modelers, there are lots of kits still available at shows to keep the olden days alive.
For me, the ends justify the means, so I don't mind if a dudette in China put a box car or engine together and made the details look better than I could. Not all of us can beat our chest and then bring a model to a show and win a prize, but we still may want to build a train that looks close to the real thing with models that match the ones pulled by the SP or D&RGW through the Sierra's or Rockies. As many of us find out, there are plenty of time consuming things we can spend our time on to reach this goal, and having a chinese worker assemble and paint a model that looks great may help us reach that goal - I'm not going to apologize to the "real" modelers who wring there hands over the dying art. It's ok *pats back* ... and if it's any comfort, some of us noobs who have been into the hobby since the 70's still toss some kits together now and then to remember y'all and the good old days. ;)
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
How ironic.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
riogrande5761 ......Accurail, Athearn, Walthers and MDC still have lots of kits at shows if you want to build a fleet at minimum expense with kits that build up without lots of effort and look very decent.
......Accurail, Athearn, Walthers and MDC still have lots of kits at shows if you want to build a fleet at minimum expense with kits that build up without lots of effort and look very decent.
That was/is the attraction of all of these kits: they were kits, they were easy to build, and they were affordable. They were also, for many of us, the introduction to the hobby. If you were satisfied with them built as intended, no problem. If you wanted more detail, or more detail specific to a certain prototype, they were affordable enough to be hacked and chopped to meet your requirements. Some modellers moved beyond these simple kits to more detailed ones or to craftsman-type kits, while others never saw a need to move beyond the basics. I'm not sure what's available now to entry-level modellers, but Accurail and Bowser are the only kit-makers of which I'm aware that fill that niche. Yes, there are lots of great-looking and very prototypical r-t-r models available, but I think that only some buyers are pleased with what they get for their money. For them, the price gives good value: a truly ready-to-run model with detail unimagineable when the simple-to-build kits were the norm. Another segment of the market, perhaps not aware of the hobby's history, buy these models because they're what's available. They may or may not appreciate the details or the fidelity to prototype, and they may not even be dismayed by the price. It's difficult to say whether or not they'd have preferred a kit, or something cheaper, or even something less detailed or less prototypical - there are plenty of modellers out there decrying so-called rivet counters, so who's to say how important these things are, especially to newcomers to the hobby.For some of us, though, r-t-r is simply an expensive route to making a model that's unique to our needs and standards, and it can be rather galling to lay out large cash (compared to that for simple kits) for a model that purports to be ready to run but in fact needs alterations to better suit the modeller's requirements. It is, of course, unreasonable to expect a manufacturer to "cover all the bases", but I'd prefer less detail for less money. Execute well the things which need to be included: fidelity to major prototype dimensions and over-all appearance, but skip the free-standing grabirons and ladders, and detailed brake gear. Most modellers don't seem to care, and, if they do, can probably do a better job of adding such details themselves. If we continue to be satisfied with over-size free-standing grabirons, why not then settle for to-scale mould-on ones? At least they'd be easier to re-do.
I understand that manufacturers need to get the best return on their investment, but modellers also need to get the best bang for their buck. If you're served by the current situation, you have no complaint. Personally, I feel that modelling is an as-equally important component of model railroading as is railroading, so I'm pleased to have quite a few Athearn, MDC, and Train Miniature kits yet to build and modify.
Wayne
Milepost 266.2 I was thinking more in terms of quality of materials, paint schemes, quality control and the assembly experience.
I was thinking more in terms of quality of materials, paint schemes, quality control and the assembly experience.
From most of the Accurail cars I've seen and built, the paint jobs aren't any better or worse, on the average, than most Athearn bb freight cars. The paint is "ok" but not stellar on Accuail, and to be fair, many Athearn bb kits weren't stellar either. Many Accurail cars I've seen, the paint appears to be easily worn or rubbed off from just rattling around loose in the boxes during transport - I've put kits back on the shelf from Accurail that I considered buying because some of the paint was rubbed off in places. Personally I don't see much significant difference between the two brands for rolling stock. Athearns engines, especially blue box, suffer from quality control issues for sure, but the freight cars - no more than Accurail.
I've assembled plenty of both, and Athearns generally are just as easy as Accurail to assemble, and in some ways I can argue are better. Many Accurail kits used pushed in plugs to hold the trucks on rather than the screws Athearns did. Yes, you can replace them but thats "out of the box" screws are much preferred. An honest appraisal would put most Athearn and Accurail freight car kits on an even playing field as far as ease of assembly, quality of materials, paint etc. The differences - advantages and disadvantages of both are minor. Thats been my experience building them between the early 1970's as a teen and the present - realizing Accurail didn't come on the scene until what, the late 1980's sometime?
What drives my decision far more than perceived quaility etc, is finding appropriate freight cars which are good matches to the real thing, or if a better car isn't available in HO, I may buy them as "stand-in's" because they approximate the look of certain prototype freight cars well enough until a better model comes along. To that end, I purchase models from most of makers based on the above criteria (Accurail, Athearn, MDC, Walthers, E&C/LBF, Atlas, ExactRail, Intermountain, etc etc. Granted Accurail, Athearn, Walthers and MDC still have lots of kits at shows if you want to build a fleet at minimum expense with kits that build up without lots of effort and look very decent.
riogrande5761 Milepost 266.2: I'm glad someone remembers that Accurail are still selling shake the box kits. Their product blows away Athearn blue box on virtually every aspect. Most of Accurails box cars are fantasy/bogus models. ie, it's very challenging to match any Accurail box car up to a real box car. Many Athears to be fair are similar in that respect but probably you can find more models matching prototype in Athearn than Accurail. Accurail and Athearn bb kits go together pretty much equal. Ok, you like Accurail but they don't blow Athearn bb away in virtually every aspect. Please. I've said this before, and will again, I try to buy what I can from all different brands, where they match real train cars, that includes Accurail, Athearn, MDC, Walthers, etc. I generally don't toot one brand over another for that reason, because I can find models from among most brands that fit.
Milepost 266.2: I'm glad someone remembers that Accurail are still selling shake the box kits. Their product blows away Athearn blue box on virtually every aspect.
I'm glad someone remembers that Accurail are still selling shake the box kits. Their product blows away Athearn blue box on virtually every aspect.
Most of Accurails box cars are fantasy/bogus models. ie, it's very challenging to match any Accurail box car up to a real box car. Many Athears to be fair are similar in that respect but probably you can find more models matching prototype in Athearn than Accurail. Accurail and Athearn bb kits go together pretty much equal. Ok, you like Accurail but they don't blow Athearn bb away in virtually every aspect. Please.
I've said this before, and will again, I try to buy what I can from all different brands, where they match real train cars, that includes Accurail, Athearn, MDC, Walthers, etc. I generally don't toot one brand over another for that reason, because I can find models from among most brands that fit.
Milepost 266.2 I'm glad someone remembers that Accurail are still selling shake the box kits. Their product blows away Athearn blue box on virtually every aspect.
riogrande5761 304live: I read that the kits are going for $5 at train shows... ive searched the internet high and low since i read that in this thread looking for $5 kits i cant find them... does anybody have a link to a buyer selling them for 5 bucks? i'd pick up several every 2 weeks when i got paid if they were only 5 bucks still... You read they were selling at train shows for $5.00 for kits. I saw some at the Timonium show for that yes, so in answer to your questions, perhaps the reason you can't find them on the internet for that cheap is because you aren't looking at a train show, instead you are looking on the internet. Key difference there. Go to some train shows and maybe you'll find some. Quite frankly train shows vary from one to another, but if you go to enough, you WILL find some good deals. I saw more good deals at the last Timonium MD show than the previous one for example.
304live: I read that the kits are going for $5 at train shows... ive searched the internet high and low since i read that in this thread looking for $5 kits i cant find them... does anybody have a link to a buyer selling them for 5 bucks? i'd pick up several every 2 weeks when i got paid if they were only 5 bucks still...
I read that the kits are going for $5 at train shows... ive searched the internet high and low since i read that in this thread looking for $5 kits
i cant find them... does anybody have a link to a buyer selling them for 5 bucks? i'd pick up several every 2 weeks when i got paid if they were only 5 bucks still...
You read they were selling at train shows for $5.00 for kits. I saw some at the Timonium show for that yes, so in answer to your questions, perhaps the reason you can't find them on the internet for that cheap is because you aren't looking at a train show, instead you are looking on the internet. Key difference there. Go to some train shows and maybe you'll find some. Quite frankly train shows vary from one to another, but if you go to enough, you WILL find some good deals. I saw more good deals at the last Timonium MD show than the previous one for example.
If there was a train show in my area every pay period I would go to it and look/buy but unfortunately West Virginia does not have train shows that often.
I assumed that if multiple sellers at train shows had hundreds of kits for sale... one or more of them might have an EBay store or a website with kits available for that price or something close to it.
sorry for asking
hon30critter Accurail has been mentioned before. If you haven't looked at them you should. They have a great selection and good prices (although not in the $5.00 range)
Accurail has been mentioned before. If you haven't looked at them you should. They have a great selection and good prices (although not in the $5.00 range)
southernpacificgs4
Georges Trains in Toronto is currently offering BB kits - 6 for $39.99 Cdn. Not sure what the shipping cost would be or if they will even ship overseas but here is their website:
http://georgestrains.com/
One other good source that I don't think has been mentioned is Tichy Trains. Their kits are a lot more detailed than the BB stuff and they require painting so they may not be what you are looking for:
http://www.tichytraingroup.com/index.php
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
304live I read that the kits are going for $5 at train shows... ive searched the internet high and low since i read that in this thread looking for $5 kits i cant find them... does anybody have a link to a buyer selling them for 5 bucks? i'd pick up several every 2 weeks when i got paid if they were only 5 bucks still...
I seen 'em 3/$10.00 at some train shows and as high as $15.00!!!!! Rare! Collectable! so read the sign.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE You can make up whatever reason you want, but if a products sales are slow enough, a company has to shift to what products do sell well. ---------------------------- According to Athearn's reply on their facebook blog the kits was not selling and Athearn had to make a tough call..Discontinue the BB kits. If one cares to read more closely I think Athearn was in poor financial shape when Horizon bought them.I know Athearn has turned out new or improved models since the buyout. So,which would be better? A new and improved Athearn or a closed Athearn from the lack of kit sales?? As Jim stated attend trains shows and stock up on old BB kits. PS..Accurail still makes affordable car kits.
You can make up whatever reason you want, but if a products sales are slow enough, a company has to shift to what products do sell well.
----------------------------
According to Athearn's reply on their facebook blog the kits was not selling and Athearn had to make a tough call..Discontinue the BB kits.
If one cares to read more closely I think Athearn was in poor financial shape when Horizon bought them.I know Athearn has turned out new or improved models since the buyout.
So,which would be better?
A new and improved Athearn or a closed Athearn from the lack of kit sales??
As Jim stated attend trains shows and stock up on old BB kits.
PS..Accurail still makes affordable car kits.
I don't know that Athearn was "in trouble" when Horizon bought them, but they definately were at a transition point as the market was changing - maybe they needed Horizon to make that transition, maybe not.
But one thing is for sure - they made the transition and dispite all the nay sayers, they have come back stronger than ever.
Interest in kits has clearly fallen off. Many modelers today prefer RTR, be it more afordable stuff like Athearn or more expensive stuff.
But kits of all skill levels, materials, and prices are still out there if you look. If your not a kit builder, you won't be looking very hard, so you won't find them.
I buy lots of Athearn Ready to Roll, I buy some of the more expensive RTR stuff, but I also still buy and build a lot of kits, easy kits, hard kits, wood kits, resin kits, plastic kits.
I have a big stock of unbuilt ones, I buy more all the time, Athearn, Intermountain, Proto, F&C, Accurail, Bowser, etc, etc.
Fact is, a large portion of the Athearn Ready to Roll line is just Athearn Blue Box kit cars, or MDC kit cars, with a few upgrades. Now sold RTR.
For those of you not old enough to have knowledge of the dark ages known as the 1960's, Athearn sold their whole line of plastic freight cars both in kits - the boxes were yellow back then, not blue - and as RTR items fully assembled for about 50% more.
Interest in RTR HO died out, they stopped making the RTR versions, by the 70's the kit boxes changed to blue.
And now it is reversed - RTR rules, no more Athearn kits - EXCEPT for the undecorated items - thank goodness.
Sheldon
For those who just plain like the Athearn blue box type of kit for ease of construction and good basic quality the Bowser and Accurail kits are for all practical purposes of the same sort of kit.
For those who want Athearn blue box because a box car kit was $1.79 list price -- ah .... sorry I can't help you. MR was 50 cents an issue at that time. We won't even talk about a gallon of gas....
Dave Nelson
There are Athearn RTR cars available at msrp $20 and discount for $15. There are Accurail kits at $14 msrp and discounted to $11 or $12. There are some Model Power RTR cars for $10 msrp discounted down a couple of dollars.
Old BB kits at the last train show I was at could be had for $8. Maybe some for less as I wasn't really looking for them. As others have said - stock up now.
All this says that no one's going to be making new sub $10 msrp kits, but kits are still available. And there are discounts. I suggest you check out MB Klein http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/
Enjoy
Paul
Train Modeler I would sign. My 12 year old son, a 3rd generation modeler is very unhappy about this too. It seems amazingly short sighted that for a hobby that is trying to attract younger people that it ignores what those kids want. My son is a Scout and they build a variety of kits for various projects(not RR modeling related). Boys like to build things!!! It's one of the ways that they learn. A well known example are the Cubscout's Pinewood Derby cars. These kits were cheap and easy to build for boys around his age and those of his friends. Doing so gave them a sense of accomplishment.
I would sign.
My 12 year old son, a 3rd generation modeler is very unhappy about this too. It seems amazingly short sighted that for a hobby that is trying to attract younger people that it ignores what those kids want. My son is a Scout and they build a variety of kits for various projects(not RR modeling related). Boys like to build things!!! It's one of the ways that they learn. A well known example are the Cubscout's Pinewood Derby cars.
These kits were cheap and easy to build for boys around his age and those of his friends. Doing so gave them a sense of accomplishment.
Rather it would be short sighted if Athearn continued to widely produce and distribute a product that generally didn't sell. Especially if poor business moves like that eventually put them out of business. Instead, why don't you visit the next big trainshow within striking distance and stock up on blue box kits that are on the tables in large quantities. Just buy a box full to keep Jr busy unit the next train show eh. Problem solved.
I have written Athearn and passed along these perspectives to the LHS. But, I think the hobby is being driven by what the old guys want---RTR--where we have the money and not so much the eyesight. Yes, my son would save up his money to buy a BB kit. At around $7+/- he could do that. The approx $30 cars---aren't going to happen for him, so yes he is discouraged about that too. This has made it too expensive for him to have "ownership" in the hobby. By the time he's 14 or more, the hormones will be kicking in and then "gas and girls"(as we say in the Scouts) will become a distraction. But he would have had that base created as a youngster which would come back to him later in life. Now, I'm not so sure. I say all of this in the post, hoping that someone pays attention to the ripple effect as well. Richard
By the time he's 14 or more, the hormones will be kicking in and then "gas and girls"(as we say in the Scouts) will become a distraction. But he would have had that base created as a youngster which would come back to him later in life. Now, I'm not so sure.
I say all of this in the post, hoping that someone pays attention to the ripple effect as well.
Richard
You can make up whatever reason you want, but if a products sales are slow enough, a company has to shift to what products do sell well. So many answer is, see my above comment - again, problem solved. So get crackin before those hormones kick in!
Martin4What I would like is that they offered their current super-detailed models as kits.
The LION doesn't run much in the way of freight cars anymore. Some of my 50' boxcars are being converted to NYCT flats.
Blue Boxes. They make cool storage boxes, easy to label, stack nicely. LION has lots of them.!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Hi!
I've been working with BB kits since the '60s! Sad they are out of vogue, BUT, there is hope.
Lots of them are listed on Ebay, especially this time of year. Remember, Athearn (and MDC) also sold their undecorated kits to folks like Bev-Bel, who applied some really nice paint jobs and graphics to them.
Last I looked, both kits and built examples are plentiful on Ebay. Check it out, you will be surprised!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
In answer on post of Atlantic Central
Ok but I can not be at those train shows where those dealers are with a lot of Blue Box kits.
Is there someone who has a link to a dealer with so much blue box kits?
I live over sea and here we find not them anymore
I have written Athearn and passed along these perspectives to the LHS. But, I think the hobby is being driven by what the old guys want---RTR--where we have the money and not so much the eyesight. Yes, my son would save up his money to buy a BB kit. At around $7+/- he could do that. The approx $30 cars---aren't going to happen for him, so yes he is discouraged about that too. This has made it too expensive for him to have "ownership" in the hobby.
There still are many craftsman kits offered today. I feel one thing preventing newer modelers from trying them is the high cost. Maybe I'm showing my age, but I remember buying Campbell kits at the LHS. Most were less then ten bucks. Have you seen the current prices in the Walthers catalog? I'm not saying they aren't worth it, but with the fear of being unable to build it, many won't risk 60 to 70 dollars. Limited edition kits are price in the hundreds.
Rolling stock is another matter. I would much rather build a P2K or Branchline Blueprint kit versus buying a ready to run version of the same, unless I can buy that RTR car for what I would spend on the kit. Being a tight-wad I have a problem paying 25 to 35 dollars for a plastic freight car. Many of us entered the hobby with a ready to run train set and advanced to kit building. All we can do is encourage the new guys to follow.
Definitely true this...
The list keeps growing too by the looks of things....
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Today all that is different. And considering that companies like Campbell, SS Ltd, FSM and other started some 30-40 years ago, there has since been 30 years of "new" history to model. This is also a point "missed" in these discussions. Modeling "present day" when I started in the hobby meant freight cars with roof walks, trains with cabooses, and 1500 hp diesels. As for craftsman kits of large scale urban settings, how about CMR, http://www.cmrtrain.com . They make lots of large, well detailed, properly proportioned urban buildings that regardless of construction date, that still stand today. And their kits are far from "shake the box" regardless of the material they are made of. I don't have any magic figures on how many model railroaders there are, or how many build what types of kits, but from what I see, those interested in building stuff is declining.
Today all that is different. And considering that companies like Campbell, SS Ltd, FSM and other started some 30-40 years ago, there has since been 30 years of "new" history to model.
This is also a point "missed" in these discussions. Modeling "present day" when I started in the hobby meant freight cars with roof walks, trains with cabooses, and 1500 hp diesels.
As for craftsman kits of large scale urban settings, how about CMR, http://www.cmrtrain.com . They make lots of large, well detailed, properly proportioned urban buildings that regardless of construction date, that still stand today. And their kits are far from "shake the box" regardless of the material they are made of.
I don't have any magic figures on how many model railroaders there are, or how many build what types of kits, but from what I see, those interested in building stuff is declining.
Sheldon, I would hasten to point out to those who might question the level of interest in, or which way interest in craftsman model building is going, as well as their strength of numbers, that the fact is over the past 10-15 years the hobby has seen a rapid increase in the number of craftsman kit manufacturers that definitely out numbers the new RTR makers. Today there are many times more kit makers than ever existed at any previous time in the hobby. To give some idea of the current diversity, the link below takes you to a craftsman kit dealer's site. The majority of the companies listed on the page are strictly HO craftsman kit providers.
http://valleymodeltrains.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21
Few of these companies advertise widely and almost none do so in Model Railroader because of the type of modeler it largely caters to. Many advertise by fliers sent directly to hobbyists known to be interested in such kits, some simply through their website. Likewise, word of mouth from kit builder to kit builder generates much of their sales. This is why so many, particular on forums such as this one, don't realize just how strong the craftsman builder aspect still is in the hobby. While we may no longer be the majority, we remain a highly viable segment and certainly one not likely to disappear any time soon...in spite of what some might say.
CNJ831
AS someone pointed out, much of Athearn's RTR selection is simply blue box that's been assembled with a few details added. Many are also from MDC/Roundhouse.
Personally, I only miss BB/MDC because of the low price. I liked assembling kits, but I don't mind not doing it.
Also I would like to lament the lack of Dummy engines. Though, using the Atlas parts department, you might be able to build one from parts for less than a full priced engine...assuming they have all parts in stock.
As for actually buying BB/MDC kits at swap meets/LHS. I do see thousands of them and they are for the most part all kits I have zero interest in. I model modern or at least late 70s to present and while there are some kits appropriate to that, I rarely see them available. I would, for instance, kill to find some MDC 50' high cube boxes and their 62' bulkhead flat.
For locomotives, sure, I see many of them out on the tables, but they are almost always overpriced and are usually limited to the widebody models. If you can find an SD40-2/T-2 or the GP38-2/40-2/50 or the newer Dash-9, then you are luckier than I and if you do find them, odds are they are over priced.
One thing I also want to find that I don't see many of is an MDC/Roundhouse Steamer kit. I'm not picky about which one, but I've always wanted to build one of them and I never had the opportunity. You simply don't see those at all.