4-4-0 & the union jack

[pedromorgan]

during the civil war, did the 4-4-0 americans ever run with union jacks on the front?

Peter

[orsonroy]

Union Jacks? You mean the flag of the British Empire? Not in the USA.....

[Anonymous]

`you mean this?

[Anonymous]

The Union Jack is/was the flag of the United Kingdom (Wales, Scotland, England, Northern Ireland) - to the best of my knowledge it would not have been seen in the US during the civil war (not sure if it was around at the time of the war of independence, it certainly wouldn't have been used in the US after that). The flags of the two warring parties were the Confederate flag, as shown in flyingscots post above, and the Union flag - which if I remember rightly looked rather like a simpler version of the modern "Stars and Stripes" flag?

[pedromorgan]

railroading brit thankyou for your post that answered my question perfectly. why didnt they teach me this stuff in school??

whilst n the subject of the american civil war, does anybody know if there were any markings that were applied to railroad equipment at the time to demonstrate their neutrality? sort of like UN being plastered down the side of tanks or the stars and stripes down the side of ships at the start of WW2?

Peter

[jrbarney]

Pedro,
To the best of my knowledge, the railroads did not wear any neutrality markings, and both sides made raids on each others railroads. One of the more famous raids was when Union soldiers stole "The General." There are some books you should see if your local public library can get on Inter Library Loan for you to borrow. They are:
"Civil War Railroads," George B. Abdill, 1961 (First Edition), Superior Publishing Co., Library of Congress Catalog Card No. 61-13110. Later editions and publishers okay, but photo reproduction may be "muddy."
"Civil War Railroads & Models," Edwin P. Alexander, 1977, later edition published by The Fairfax Press/Crown Publishers, ISBN 0-517-66557-3
"A Picture History of U. S. Transportation," Roderick Craib, 1958, Simmons-Boardman Publishing Corp., Library of Congress Catalog Card No. 58-13988
"Victory Rode the Rails," George Edgar Turner, 1953, 1981, University of Nebraska Press, ISBN0-8032-9423-9
Hope this helps.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[dehusman]

Since there wre no neutral parties during the Amercan Civil War, especially with regard to railroads. They were strategic military resources and were used or destroyed as required. As the Union Army traveled through the south they would pull up the rails and put them across stacks of ties, then light the ties on fire. The heat would cause the rails to soften and bend, rendering them useless and keeping the south from using the lines.

Dave H.

[timthechef]

The south sabotaged and stole a lot of equiptment from the B&O at Harpers Ferry During the begining of the war.

[darth9x9]

and to add on to dehusman....

after the rails heated up from the burning ties, the Confederates would take them and wrap them around the telegraph poles and trees until the two ends met. This made them pretty useless. The Union devised ways of straightening rails. There are pictures of this in the Time Life series of books about the Civil War. The one book titled "Spies, Scouts and Raiders" has such a picture on page 103.

[wrobwrob]

I agree that trains were not typically identified during the war, because it was pretty obvious whether they were federal or Southern based on where they operated, and soldiers knew it.

Nevertheless, the Union Jack is not merely the British flag.

U.S. Navy ships at anchor fly a jack (or flag) from the jackstaff during the day. Prior to 9/11 it was a flag that consisted of a blue field with fifty stars. It was essentially the upper left corner of the U.S. flag, and the Navy called it the Union Jack.

Today, however, ships fly the first Navy jack of 1775, a flag consisting of 13 horizontal alternating red and white stripes bearing diagonally across them a rattlesnake in a moving position with the motto "Don't Tread On Me." The Navy says this is temporary substitution, which represents an historic reminder of the nation's and Navy's origin and will to persevere and triumph.

[Anonymous]

The only 4-4-0's you might see with a proper Union Jack on them would have been Canadian ones (As the Union Jack was also the Canadian flag up until 1968.)

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mykroft

The only 4-4-0's you might see with a proper Union Jack on them would have been Canadian ones (As the Union Jack was also the Canadian flag up until 1968.)

Sorry Myckroft, but the Canadian flag was the Canadian Red Ensign until December 1964, when it was replaced by today's well known Maple Leaf flag (not without a great deal of opposition from Empire loyalists). The Canadian Red Ensign was red (of course), with the British Union Jack in the upper left corner and the Canadian Coat of Arms in the main field of red (the flag of the provinces Ontario and Manitoba today are similar Red Ensigns, with the upper left British Union Jack, and their respective provincial Coat of Arms in the main field.