bakerboy2008Everything said are good points. the most common sizes i have seen for sail are around a 3x5 to about a 6x9.
I just moved a 12'x24' 600 miles to a new home. It was donated to the Youth In Model Railroader group. It was originally one of those professionally built things that disassembled into 4 sections for transport to the purchaser's home. Unfortunately the original buyer had added a bunch of stuff that ran over the planned break apart joints. They all broke. It will be major work to get it operational again. And once again it was one of those professionally built layouts with a really lousy track plan. Definitely not as good as the new owners could have done in the same amount of space. On the other hand "FREE" is a really good price. How many 11 year olds can claim a 12'x24' empire. It cost $200 fuel to transport and probably another $100 to reassemble/repair. I am certain there is much more than $200 worth of lumber in the bench work. And Way more than $100 of turnouts/turntables structures (Walthers) on it.
I had the pleasure of working at a professional model shop in New York from 1961 to 1978 and we built a model of New York City for the 1964-5 World's Fair. This model was 100' x 180' and was build on 4x10 sections, lots of sections, in our shop (35 miles away) that all interlocked. Now there wasn't any railroad track on it other than simple painted lines (it was 1" to 100 feet! scale) but we had 800,000 buildings and all the streets in the 5 buroughs of New York. I am still amazed that we built and shipped and assembled it all so that when you saw the finished model, it looked like one piece. There were thousands of feet of wiring under to all the lights and ??? junction boxes. It all ran on a paper tape programmer (we didn't have computer controls then!). The model is still on display in NYC at the old fair grounds, Flushing Meadows Park, and is used by NYC for a planning model. Just thought you all might like to know that anything is possible. (And I made an earlier post that any large model layout would be difficult to dismantle and move?.) Maybe some of you saw the model.?
Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
NO! A part of the enjoyment of this hobby for me is to design, build and implement. Even though my current layout was started 25 years ago, I continually find things to update and modify and change. No one can design for me what I want.
I can see for some the idea might be attractive, but when you think about it, how many of us want to assemble an automobile from parts or from scratch? But a layout is a personal thing, and I wouldn't want to trust someone else to build a layout for me.
Since one of my other hobbies involves dismantling modifing, and reassembling things, I wouldn't have a problem buying a finished layout. Wether I use it for parts or whole sections or the whole layout depends on what the layout was originally and how it fit my plans. Scenery can be changed to match, filler sections can be built to mate old/new, and individual parts (turnouts buildings) can be stashed away for use in another part of the layout. A steel mill and a couple coal mines are on the shopping list.
Especially since some of these layouts go for pennies on the dollar. Most of my stock of supplies are used secondhand stuff picked up at yard sales, train shows and flea markets.
Deconstruction and moving can take some time and a lot of thought. You need to think about where the best place to cut the track is, not where the best place to cut the benchwork is. Save yourself some cursing and cut at the simple sections of track then reinforce the benchwork at the cut point. Wiring can be figured out ahead of time and "mapped" or discarded as needed. Transportation is a little more involved than just dump it in the back of a pickup, you may need a Uhaul or enclosed trailer. Of course getting the sections out of the house can be a chore especially if it's in an attic or basement. One in a garage would be easy.
OTOH I wouldn't necessarily spend the bucks for a custom built layout. Just a bang for the buck thing.
So where is this 14x32 located? What was it originally?
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
If a layout is built in modular sections it can be moved as can a 4x8',4x6' or a switching layout I would consider buying it-at a reasonable price..
A larger layout not in modular sections I wouldn't even think about it.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I doubt I'd buy someone's personal layout...well, maybe the Franklin and South Manchester! lol But if I had the means I'd seriously consider having someone else build one for me. Most of it anyways. Just the stuff I'm not good at like benchwork and handlaid track. But I'd still build all the structures etc. myself.
Some of the earliest pre-fab layouts were made by Lionel in both Standard and O gauge. A small 3 by 5 O gauge scenic railway (track, buildings and accessories included but no train) would set you back about 80 bucks in the mid 1920's. The table itself was made to furniture standards with tapered legs and elegant mouldings. The mountains however, were made of steel. Talk about durability! Lionel even recomended putting live goldfish in the small pond at the front of the layout! Later "Display" layouts were usually a lot simpler in terms of construction. The mountains went from steel to felt on screening and the legs dissappeared altogether. Those early scenic railways were the pinnacle of pre-fab in my mind. Wonder what steel mountains would cost on a 3 by 5 today?
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
I bought a 4x5 finished HO scale layout a couple of years ago for my son.
Simple oval, 3 powered Atlas switches, sceniked, buildings, complete with Bachman Magnum power pack, powered Athearn SW7 & rolling stock
Best $25 i ever spent just seeing Liam's eyes light up when we told him Happy Birthday!
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
No, I'm a Builder. The pleasure is in starting with raw materials and boxes of parts, and transforming those into my own miniature world. Why should I pay someone else to have all the fun?
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I guess in the long tun its just better to do it yourself, then to possibly buy someone elses headaches or troubles.
love any kind of train
I sold my last house with a fully complete 14X32 foor layout in the basement and found out the later that the buyer "thought" he would be able to sell the layout for "big bucks" to recoup part of the pruchase price. Last I heard he had changed his asking price from $15,000 to "whatever you will give me for it".
So much for selling and attached layout, it was a part of the house like the roof but all he saw was $$$$$$................life can be an expensive education.
Mark
I have never seen anything that matches my vision (or even comes close).
In any event I like the idea of developing and building my own vision of the Ma&Pa.
Enjoy
Paul
galaxy bakerboy2008: Has anyone here ever thought about buying a layout in the gauge you like that was close to what you envisioned. I see them up for sale online on various websites and some are similar to what i envision. I was curios as to how many if any of ya would consider going that route. I am going to build mine because I think i will enjoy it more. No I have not considered it, I like creating with my own hands.
bakerboy2008: Has anyone here ever thought about buying a layout in the gauge you like that was close to what you envisioned. I see them up for sale online on various websites and some are similar to what i envision. I was curios as to how many if any of ya would consider going that route. I am going to build mine because I think i will enjoy it more.
Has anyone here ever thought about buying a layout in the gauge you like that was close to what you envisioned. I see them up for sale online on various websites and some are similar to what i envision. I was curios as to how many if any of ya would consider going that route. I am going to build mine because I think i will enjoy it more.
No I have not considered it, I like creating with my own hands.
The possibility that anyone, anywhere, would ever build anything like my personal vision is on the same order of probability as having my humble abode (in the middle of a desert, a kilometer above sea level and three mountain ranges away from the nearest salt water) destroyed by a tsunami - the wet kind, not the electronic variety. Nebba hoppen!
About moving a layout:
If it was designed and built in pure modular form it might be possible to disassemble it with minimum damage. Then, how good a fit would it be in its new home. Too big, and you're back to dismantling it for parts. Way too small - how do you extend or add to it?
Small areas specifically designed for removal as units, whether standard (N-Trak or other) modules or layout-specific dominos, might be salable or reusable as units. I am building all of my fanciest specialwork (hand-laid) as removable sections - but they are layout-specific. How many folks out there in E-Bay land will be bidding on a yard throat with three three-way switches, all routes curving left? Or a puzzle palace of #5 double slips and crossovers meant to sort two widely-spaced main tracks into four platform tracks, a freight A/D track and a central thoroughfare? I really don't think so (but it is handy to be able to take them to a workbench for wiring and maintenance.)
A friend of mine once bought a Dave Vollmer-size N scale layout on a flush door. It wasn't very complex, but he never did figure out the original electricals and it took almost as much work (and money) to return it to operational condition as it would have cost to build it from scratch.
I rest my case.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
bakerboy2008 Has anyone here ever thought about buying a layout in the gauge you like that was close to what you envisioned. I see them up for sale online on various websites and some are similar to what i envision. I was curios as to how many if any of ya would consider going that route. I am going to build mine because I think i will enjoy it more.
My other half, who is also a train buff {aren't I lucky?}, on the other hand has thought about purchasing a premade N scale layout but at $300 some odd dollars plus $$ for the trackage needed, has thought not. Besides, we have no place to put it now so my other half is content to run only onthe under the table top tree layout at chritmas time.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
The biggest impediment to me would be the wiring documentation - most notably the usual lack of.
In moving, wires frequently get snagged or broken, and connections come loose. That's just life when carrying layout sections or transporting them in the back of a truck. That's in addition to any damage to scenery and track (especially near section joints or layout edge).
But track or scenery you can see the damage, and can easily figure out how to fix it. If you didn't do the wiring yourself, and you don't have any documentation, you are going to spend hours on even a small layout reverse engineering the color code (if any) and tracing wires to figure out the scheme. The more complex the wiring, the longer this task is going to take. Often it will be more profitable in terms of time and energy to start the wiring over almost from scratch. Even on my own wiring, I've spent hours figuring out what I originally did several or more years ago if I got lazy and didn't document. Now try it with somebody who doesn't think like yourself.
Back when I was a teenager, my Dad bought me a used 4x6 Atlas layout built almost exactly like the book said to. It took a while, but we were able to get it running - brass track and all. It was my start in HO model railroading.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I have sold two layouts in the past 50 years, both small in size. The first was only4x8 and was built in two halves on purpose. That was when I was in my 20's. The second was 5x9 and in one pc, but completed. I helped load it into a pickup (angled on one long side?) and it made it to it's new home safely. These are about the only sizes that could safely be transported without major surgery and major damage. I would have to agree with most comments posted here. Also, it is highly unlikely to find a layout exactly or close to what you would build yourself.
Hi!
Lots of thoughts on this post.......
- The fun for many of us is in the building of our own layout. I recognize some want to run trains and can't or don't want to build their own - but IMHO they are missing oh so much!
- Buying someone else's layout means that if its anywhere near complicated, you will have a maintenance nightmare trying to decipher wiring, etc.
- Ok, you bought it, now you have to move it. Not easy at all, even if its a 4x8.
- Even if you are buying it for salvage value, you could spend more time and effort recovering items than they are worth. Of course if you get the layout for little or nothing, that's a different story.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Everything said are good points. the most common sizes i have seen for sail are around a 3x5 to about a 6x9. Both I would think are somewhat or halfway ok to try and move, but there would things as 1 of you mention that may not be up to our standards or are fragile that wont survive the move. I myself would not do more then to move it across town.
This is a real issue because often the family of a deceased modeler is convinced that much of the cost of the layout can be recouped by selling it to someone. They are in for a surprise.
The other dream that seems not to come true is selling the house with the layout as part of the deal. Even the great Allen McClelland was not able to find a buyer for the fabulous V&O plus house.
With the death of two long time model railroaders here in Milwaukee who had large and mostly finished layouts, some of us are facing the task of dismantling our friend's large layout. It is almost impossible to imagine truly being able to take one apart in a way that would allow it to be moved and put back together. Much would be damaged and even the repairable parts would not look (or likely, operate) the same. For example, while there may be some "natural" places to cut through the plywood, often a maze of turnouts are right at that spot. And the wiring alone would seem to be nearly a nightmare to make sense of.
Having said that, from time to time it is possible to salvage and move a scene or isolated area. Sometimes a staging yard can be removed intact. A switching district peninsula is another good example.
Dave Nelson
You won;t get a layout this way, but you can get a lot of parts. Sometimes even segments of benchwork and scenery that can be connected. You can also get buildings, rolling stock and scenery segments. Some of our best layouts here are made from parts moved from a former residence. This is like buying a layout from yourself and moving it.
Dangers abound including: transportation costs, getting pieces in your train room, fragile componants that will not transport, and work that is not up to your standards. There is also a problem of old parts that won't mix with the new stuff.