NOTHING to reproach yourself for or about!! You said it as you saw it appear and sound right in front of you. I don't believe that you have any bias but I do feel that you shouldn't feel pressurised in any way whatsoever into appearing to be "climbing down". Why should "ANYBODY" have to go to the trouble of correcting something which should NOT have been so faulty in the first instance??
I have three MTH SD70ACe units on their way across the "pond" to Wales here in the UK and this was due to the fact that you mentioned the difference in weight comparison. Both have some faults but it is totally pointless in having a model which, in comparison, wouldn't pull the skin of a rice-pudding!! A very good review indeed.
Cheers,
Colin Meredith
About how many average size modern freight cars does that work out to? I couldn't find anything from a couple quick searches.
_________________________________________________________________
Google is your friend
157,000 pounds of tractive effort.
http://www.thedieselshop.us/Data%20EMD%20SD70ACe.HTML
Springfield PA
Looks like Athearn still has some issues to work out. I wonder why no-one's made single piece handrails from something like brass? It should be as durable or more durable than multiple piece metal handrails, and I wouldn't think it would be much more difficult to make.
Out of curiosity, how much can a real SD70ACe pull on its own?
Crandell ...
I just addressed this discussion in another post - I did have the opportunity to compare the Athearn vs the MTH model (SD70ACe in question) in terms of pulling capacity.
On a scale 1.5% grade, the Athearn model was able to achieve a total car length of NMRA compliant weighted cars(all of the same characteristic or type of car)of 17 cars prior to wheel slippage(stall) occurring.
On the same test grade, the MTH pulled 39 of the same cars before wheels slipped-more than twice the number of cars.
I attribute this to the considerablely lighter weight of the Athearn model compared to the heft of the MTH SD70ACe. I also believe the Canon motor MTH utilizes, has more relative torque output -similar to the Kato motor.
It is possible that less weight was a tradeoff for room to accomodate speakers for the sound in the Athearn but that is speculation on my part.
The Genesis drive has never been known for its pulling power anyway so this shouldn't be a surprise.
That is not to say that the Athearn is inferior - it isn't by any stretch.
Overall, I don't think this will matter too much to most modelers, as many layouts lack the 'grades' I've subjected these to, and most modelers will run these in tandem lashups.
Just my input based on my personal observation.
HeritageFleet1
Randy...
Not all US railroads are require to utilize Alternating flashing ditch lights. It appears that only the NORAC operating roads still use this function - mid western, regional and western roads have not used flashing ditchlights for many years now.
HF1
Actually, you can shut the flashing ditch lights off (constant on) with the TIU and remote, but you must buy this from MTH.
I bought one just to program with and to transfer/upload sound files from their website(3.0 protocol). You can also adjust individual sound volumes on the protosound 3.0 , and turn on/off other functions like the radio chatter, etc.
John,
thank you for posting the link to your review on youtube.
Others may have claimed it to be a little too subjective, but I think, this is quite OK. You share your view on those two products and state your own personal preference. It is a valuable help for others to make up their buying decision.
I am eager to see more reviews coming!
Hi John,
Thanks for your youtube review, I have followed your videos before it was posted on this forum, you've always had clear, honest reviews which I continue to appreciate, so, keep um coming...
Thanks,
David
Yes, apparently the speaker box is not sealed up properly on some units causing a lowerin of the volume. Sealing the speaker box with RTV or something similiar solves the problem.
Apparantly over at the Atlas forums, someone discovered that there's a problem with the speakers not being sealed or something like that, causing the low sound issues from that review.
So I guess it's another quality control problem coming out of China.
That is a major mess up, if it's true.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Hi guys, I am JLWII2000 the poster of the video on youtube. I've read over your comments and appreciate the debate going on here but there are a few things I need to mention:
1. I was not in MTH's column from the get go. I have 9 MTH SD70ACe's this is true but that comes from my impatience to wait on Athearn's release. If I had determined that Athearn had a superior product I was going to sell all of my MTH's off and buy Athearn. I just did the review based on what I noticed along with my preferences such as sound, drive quality, and of course those flashing ditch lights.
2. I currently reside where UP and a few BNSF engines reign in glory. The SD70ACe versions of these two road names do not have flashing ditch lights when the horn is blown.
3. I did not put the Athearn's pulling cars in the video because I didn't have time. My layout is fairly small at 6 x 18 with a double loop oval. I can easily pull 25 cars with the MTH but when I hooked up the 25 cars to the Athearn there were lots of areas on a flat layout where it spun out.
4. I do have issues with Athearn's quality, as I mentioned earlier I have purchased 9 MTH HO scale SD70ACe's and not one has a problem. But the only Athearn SD70ACe I purchased is already experiencing problems with the all wheel pickup. It cuts out in areas of the track that simply has a rail joiner and no gap. I've ran over the track and cleaned it and it still has problems. I've also snapped a handrail on my SD60M by accident. The parts just seem brittle on Athearn's engines.
Overall, as I mentioned in a comment on my video it is personal preference. I don't collect a paycheck from MTH or Athearn so I just do reviews in HD so you can see the product, hear the product and see my opinion of the matter. I'm a fairly new model railroader so others catch things that I don't especially when it comes to the finer details. Thanks for watching the video!
I agree he is obviously pro-MTH, but hey its Youtube.
With that said, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the MTH until you have actually operated one. They are truly outstanding models, and the running qualities are excellent. There really is no comparison against the Athearn.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I just watched the video and coincidentally just received two Athearn ACes in BNSF scheme.
I thought the video was a little biased towards MTH. The guy says the sound in the Athearns aren't loud enough. In my opinion, I don't want my locos to be loud. They shouldn't sound like a hard-rock concert going down the rails. Mine are set pretty low, except the horn is a little louder.
I don't own any MTHs to form an opinion, but so far I am happy with my new Athearn ACes.
Will
the most important thing to me is the drive so ima stick with my mth
Riverside,
Thanks for posting the link. I always like to see and hear before I purchase, before youtube came about, that was a difficult thing to do.
Pulling power? I agree, a tug of war would've been kinda neat. Maybe a bit silly, but kinda cool.
I'm big on sound, so I liked the sound and horn comparrison.
Don't let the negative posters get to ya, I think we are mature enough to view videos and make our own decisions on what we like and who is providing it.
They both look like very fine examples. I don't think anyone can go wrong with either model. With the advances in detail and sound, these are great times in the hobby! Enjoy!
If weight is the only criteria for pulling power, there is room in the Athearn for more weight. I use lead fishing sinkers hammered into various shapes.
He does reviews quite often and is pretty good. I have the MTH and use the Tsunami decoder in it. Sounds much better than the Athearn. He might not have had the CV settings right. You don't only adjust the master gain but the individual sounds as well.
As far as drives the MTH uses a Canon Motor which is top of the line. I'm not sure what the Athearn uses. The creep speed of the MTH is excellent as well. Not sure with Athearn but with the Tsunami I'm sure it can be adjusted similar.
It was moslty my intention to post the video so we could all see what it looks like and how it sounds. I think most of us have been around these things long enough that it really doesn't take that much to base our own opinion. Most of us had made some type of an opinion prior to seeing the video whether it be pro Athearn or not in favor of them for some reason. Im also just guessing he held a comparison test against MTH because they are the only other comparable manufacturer who produces a SD70ACE and they have set the bench mark. I have to admit, I was impressed with the detail from what I could see and a little disappointed in the sound.
In reference to the ditch lights, BNSF only has steady beam for ditch lights out here on the west coast so Im guessing thats what he was talking about. But then again I have never seen a BNSF SD70ACE out here (only UP), we are mostly GEVO country.
Regardless of the review i'm glad he took the time to show us what they looked like. Thanks
Most of us will determine what we like or dislike anyway.It's just his opinion.
Bob
He all so stated his MTH could pull a whole 25 cars by it self. Big deal. I have a Athearn Dash 9 RTR that will pull 25 cars with not a problem Blue Line GE AC 6000 will hump 40 cars up grade and is plenty loud. Heck a single PK 1000 F 3 will pull 30 cars at a fraction of the prices, but no sound.
I all so wonder if he knows what he is doing with the Horn CV's.
I hate Rust
I can see if he had a Canadian road loco and it wasn't supposed to flash but he has BNSF and UP... one commenter did say it appears he hasn't been in the hobby long, could be true and he just doesn't know about that. Have any of the magazines done the Athearn one yet and gotten a somewhat accurate pulling power rating for comparison?
I really don't have a horse in this race, these things are far too modern for me. But I'd go with the Athearn just because it's fully DCC compatible not mostly.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
A slight correction here in Quebec Canada the Quebec Gatineau a subsidiary of the Genesee Wyoming do have flashing ditch light.
Jack W.
If the only factor is weight, then the MTH SD70ACe is a very good puller it weight in at 23.1 oz. This however does not make this unit a champion puller. The BLI AC6000 at 27 oz will blow it out of the water and P2K SD60 at 26 oz, E6 at 25.25 oz and E7 at 24 oz are all better puller.
Kato is very close to the MTH in the pulling power category, the SD90/43 and SD80 weight 21.5 oz.
The heaviest Atlas Dash8 and Athearn SD70 i have are about 18 oz not in the same ball game.
rrinker Flashing ditch lights not prototypical? Where is he from? It's a US road loco, and around here the ditch lights flash whenever the horn is sounded, plus a holdover time. Then they are on solid. I would expect the Tsunami in the Athearn could be programmed to do this, although Athearn tends to put both ditch lights on a single function by default, you have to move a wire to set it up properly. --Randy
Flashing ditch lights not prototypical? Where is he from? It's a US road loco, and around here the ditch lights flash whenever the horn is sounded, plus a holdover time. Then they are on solid. I would expect the Tsunami in the Athearn could be programmed to do this, although Athearn tends to put both ditch lights on a single function by default, you have to move a wire to set it up properly.
Perhaps Canada. Canadian locos do not have flashing ditch-lights. I in fact didn't know that such a thing existed until I saw video of a CSX ES44 with them flashing while the horn sounded. It was a bit of a surprise, as no such function exists on our side of the border.
-Tim
Coulda just had a tug-o-war.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
I also noticed from the get go that he was Pro MTH and not giving a proper review.
Hmm let me think,I do model the KCS
I, too, noticed that he dismissed the Athearn engine's pulling power based solely on his subjective assessment of the engine's weight. Had he weighed each one, AND then tested each with the same consist on the same length of track, I would have been much more receptive to his apparently pro-MTH 'review'.
I'll find other sources for such assessments.
Crandell