My track plan is online!!! I'd appreciate feedback!

[88gta350]

I've finally finished a rough draft of my track plan and posted it on my site. I'd appreciate it if you guys would check it out and give me your feedback. It's an 11x22 and I've never done anything this large before. The plan really only includes track and the major buildings (which may not be to scale, but are close) and doesn't include most roads, streams, and mountains just so all the lines didn't get confusing. I'll take any feedback... be honest about the operability of said plan. I wanted to incorporate continous run capability but still have alot of switching options. The plan has 3 foot shelves with two peninsulas. 30" aisles are standard with a pinch point in the center of 2', but it shouldn't be bad.

While you're there, read the history of the line to get a feel for why the track plan looks the way it does. I was able to keep the town of Belleville very true to the prototype. There may be the addition of a passing siding and/or station between Belleville and Reedsville, but because I don't know it's exact location yet, I didn't include it.

Link to my site is in my signature!

Thanks!
Dave Moore

[simon1966]

Hi Dave

Nice start to the web site. I hope to get one up at some stage in the future. What scale are you using, I seem to have missed that somewhere? My inital comment is related to the yard tracks and if you are going to be long enough? You get a bit of an S curve going on when entering the yard from the lower side. By using curved turnouts, you would be able to elimiate the S curve and lengthen the tracks.

[88gta350]

actually, I don't think I have on my site anywhere what scale I'm using... oversight on my part! It's HO scale, and the yards will be ahndling only a few cars at a time, as short lines don't produce much traffic. The Lewistown yards are supposed to be big, but space limited them to what they are.... I'll just have to live with it. Once I get the house that the layout will be built in, I'm going to map it out on the floor with masking tape so I can see it life-size. That's where I'll be able to fine tune and discover if yard tracks are long enough. Most spurs and yards shouldn't have to handle more than 2-3 cars at a time. 12-18" enough for that?

[Anonymous]

I assume that this is HO scale, and that each square equals 6" correct?

I would round off the corners of the layout along the aisle, which will give you more space to move around, give the layout a less "gridded" feel, and people won't "snag" on it when passing through.

I really would expand the aisles to 36". It's going to be tight enough just for one person, needless to say anyone squeezing past each other, so you'll need to have at least one 48" space for two people to pass.

I would narrow the space around the duckunder. A duckunder for a 6" or 12" wide section is awkward enough, but having it 36" wide will practically force people to crawl under there.

I would think about rotating the design either clockwise or counter clockwise around the room so that the yard at Lewiston is on one of the long sides. Keeping those nice broad curves really shortens the yard when it's on the end like that. My first thought would be to put the wye at Reedsville in the upper lefthand corner, Belleville in the upper side or upper right-hand corner, and Lewiston at the bottom. Then you can have the narrow benchwork for the duckunder at the throat of the yard. And you can narrow the benchwork for the yard to 2 feet to give you some room for a few people to work around the yard (where I assume alot of activity will occur), but it won't take too much away from the scene. Then the operators for the two other towns will be at the ends. If you still need more aisle space, you can narrow the benchwork on the top of the plan without encroaching on space for the two towns at the ends.

Regardless of how you want to design things, I would suggest using some boxes and the like laid out in that room so that you can walk amongst them to get an idea of how narrow the aisles will be.

---jps

*edit* and while I was typing this out, you replied about HO scale. Isn't that always the way? ;)

[88gta350]

jps, thanks for the tips. I'll probably take your advice on rounding the corners off. My main focus for the line is Belleville, as that's it's hometown and where all the industry lies. Lewistown is more of an afterthought and a chance for an interchange with NS, so I'm hesitant to give it a more prominat part on the layout. . I'll more than likely be operating by myself at most times, or with my son when he becomes old enough. so overcrowding shouldn't be too much of an issue.

As for the duckunder, I was planning on having a chair with casters nearby so people can sit down and roll under it (it will be high, likely 50" or so) because I knew it would be tough getting under there. I may be able to shorten it though, as it was under a mountain (viewblock) anyway.

I'll play with the plan a little taking your advice into consideration and see if I can move the towns a little.

[Anonymous]

Dave,

I posted a reply in the other forum but had another thought or two, now I have exceded my allotted thoughts for the day. Have you tried the Atlas free track planning software called RTS on www.atlasrr.com ? I take a concept then use the RTS to accurately depict curve radii, add turnouts and general track geometry. It shows me what will fit in my space and what will require an addition to the house. I like the idea posted here about rotating the towns, giving Belleville the entire short end of the layout and Lewiston yard along a narrower long side (see reply in other forum).

Jay

[philnrunt]

Belleville looks good with lots of switching potential. If Lewistown is a secondary location, could you scoot it more towards the upper lefthand curve to move it farther from Belleville and maybe give you more yard space.
This might mean building it on a curve, but you could reduce the number and increase the length of the yard tracks.
Still, overall, it looks like you used your space well.
And I still like that U-Boat!

[88gta350]

back up top!

[Anonymous]

Just a tip, make the NS line three tracks, looks great!

[orsonroy]

Looks good as a preliminary plan, but I do have a few comments. Take 'em or leave 'em as you will:

1) definitely shrink the benchwork around the duckunder, to only 6" to a foot wide, by 2'-3' long. In fact, try to plan for this area to be some sort of drop down/lift up/removeable section. Duckunders get old FAST. Moveable sections don't have to be fancy (mine are just 3/4" ply that drop down on hinges), and if you're worried about stuff falling off, just add pexiglas shields to each side.

2) try to plan for some staging. Don't necessarily scrap out the plan and replan as a point to point, but do try to add at least one area where "real" trains come from staging and drop off cars. Your NS connection would be ideal. Instead of having it end at the wall, duck it under the benchwork to a simple stub-ended staging yard that can hold 4-6 trains. Since it's a staging yard, you only need a few inches of clearance, so it'll fit under the main benchwork base easily. You'd be amazed what a little staging can do to enhance a layout.

3) Lewistown yard seems a little short. With your 6" grid, your longest track will only hold 7 cars, and the shortest will only handle 3 (and we're talking 40' boxcars here). Start the yard yeads at or near the curves. IN addition, plan in a "drill lead" or switching track, so the yard switcher doesn't foul the mainline. You might not want to operate with anyone but yourself, but it's always fun to have a train on the main doing loops, while you run the switcher.

4) Add a second track between the turntable and the yard. One track should be a dedicated in/out track, while the second should be the ready track.

5) Why a wye at each town? Since you're running diesels, there's really no reason to turn an engine on a local. Reverse sections on layouts are generally a pain for wiring (in both DC and DCC), so I try to avoid 'em when I can. You've already got the turntable. Besides, you can get rid of the wye and add another industry there.

6) Lengthen the passing siding at Reedsville. Right now, it's just a runaround track. Passing tracks should be the length of your normal sized trains. My trains are limited to a 2-8-4, one caboose and 15 40' cars, so are 11 feet long.

7) Add a passing track at Belleville. Besides being useful for meets, passing tracks double as runaround tracks for local jobs. And with passing tracks at both towns, you can pretty easily run two trains on your own!

Other than these comments, everything looks good!@ I especially like the fact that your layout is "sincere"; that is, it's not cluttered and should feel like the real world. You've also left a lot of space for nothing but scenery and the mainline, which really adds to layout realism and believability.

And don't forget to keep us posted on your progress!

[Anonymous]

Sir, I will add some thoughts to the boiling pot.

Your main line cries out for more mileage. Thus:
http://www.naisp.net/users/mfischer/Trkplans/2x40003.zip

This picture shows the two switches in red that I am talking about.

Some really big switches like #8's will provide smooth operation across there and not to mention a good spot for a junction tower.

The other reason for including a second loop of track is to ISOLATE your yard from the main line. It is very unsatisfactory to have to stop yard switching to let main trains thru or vice versa.

Another benefit is freeing up your switcher to work on it's own drill track and keeps the Main line trains from derailing across yard switches that were left un-thrown. (Or open, closed etc) You will forget which switch is thrown for which train as I did.

Chopping off the top two yard tracks in the ladder and making them long stub tracks will increase your capacity and provide a working storage area for your switcher. I infer from your plan you may connect to another section someday and create a sort of a central yard.

Bellevie is a excellent town, when I saw it I had the urge to grab my trusty P2k 0-6-0 and start switching.

It may be possible to do a sort of trackwork to allow you to reverse trains, I am thinking of your engine leaving the yard and taking care of the towns and suddenly having to somehow change direction for the return trip back.

And lastly, the suggestion I included above helps lengthen your mainline run and perhaps provide enjoyment on days when you dont feel like switching. You can always sorta take a stretch of main and hide it behind a increasing screen of small to bigger trees to hide your train and provide a sense of time.

And one other thing to consider is the capacity of your sidings. I myself think a train that has a heavy steam engine up front with 15 40' cars (maybe a few odd lengths longer here and there) and caboose is a TRAIN in HO. Worthy of any engineer.

BTW, you club folks running 100 car double stacks across mountains to distant citys need to keep in mind that in a average room 15 cars is alot of train to roll.

The reason for this is the BLI Heavy Mike is capable of hauling this train up 3% grades with a bit of slip here and there. So that is my "maximum" train if you allow room for one of these to do it's work or better yet have a siding big enough to fit it I think you will be pretty happy.

Lee

[Don Gibson]

1. Your 'Y's accompli***oo little for the amount of room they take up. Do you need reversing capability?
2. If you add a 'passing siding' you can run trains in both directions.
3. You'll find out your Yards are too short.

[IRONROOSTER]

Dave,
I appreciate your desire to not have the yard dominate the layout. The overall theme looks good. But unfortunately the Lewiston yard is not going to fit at the end. Your have drawn the ladder tracks at too steep an angle even for #4 turnouts. I would suggest you get Atlas's free software as Jay suggested above. John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" has some good sections on how much space yards take. I think you'll find that if you want a yard on the end, it will have to be a single ended yard. Also, in drawing my own track plans, I have found a compass really helps lay out the curves correctly.
Good luck
Paul

[88gta350]

Thanks for the input guys! I'll work on it some more and see what I can come up with. It's always hard for me drawing these things when they aren't life-sized. It's tough to keep in mind how much space things take up in real life.

I tried working with Atlas' freeware a little bit last night, but it kept locking up on me and giving me error messages.

For those of you that wondered about the wye's, they are there because I was following a prototype track plan and was trying to keep it as close as possible to the prototype, but it looks like some concessions need to be made. Know of anyway I can suggest or model a wye without it coming out as it has on my plan?

I've considered going to narrower shelves and running a single, long peninsula from right to left on the plan to extend my mainline, but am wondering how the narrow shelves will affect my switching potential. I don't want every industry to be right up along the main line.

*EDIT* Also, I'm not too worried about my staging tracks, as they're really just there to represent a staging area, and won't be actually staging much of anything. Passing tracks or yards in other areas won't have to handle much either as I don't see my trains being more than 5 or 6 cars at a time. This is a shortline with limited traffic.

[dehusman]

Your yard is way too short and the switches are drawn way too sharp Looks like you are using #2 or #3 switches in the yard. The top wye doesn't have any room on the tail to turn anything. I would suggest getting a track planning template (hobby shops sell them or cut out some templates for curves and switches out of sheet plastic after carefully laying them out to scale). You will not be able to build the plan you've drawn in the space you've drawn it in (unless you go to N-scale or use trolley style track.) My layout is basically 12x23 so I have the same size space.

You have a good basic plan (I would include some staging in the form of an interchange to a Class 1), you just need to draw it more to scale. I like to take a switch and photo copy it, then cut out the paper switches and use them to layout the track plan in full scale on the floor or on sheets of brown wrapping paper.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

Looks like a nice plan. lots of possiblities across the model railroad spectrum. My one reccomendation is with the tracks leading off on the upper left, is that you include provision for a staging yard. You will be amazed at how much operating potential a staging yard can add.

James

[Anonymous]

The layout design looks great. I was noticing the really tight switches in the yard. The switches are always the hard part for me to draw freehand. By the way, you must have been thinking of me when you named Reedsville.
Reed

[Anonymous]

Dave: Access is going to be a factor. You have a lot of turnouts and the turntable a fair reach from the layout edge, especially if the layout height up there and assuming no access on the Bellvsille side of the layout. When the inevitable derailments start, you'll hate yourself.Try flipping Bellville to get the switching closer and consider removing the wye. I guess a shortline might not have swtiching leads...however, the plan as drawn prevents you from making up a train at Lewistown while running another on the main, which can be nice...it keeps some action going while your switching and sets up the possibilities of meets. I'll second the yard at Lewistown as being small. You could single end it and curve the track back along the main. Same with the interchange that disappears to the left. Just some thoughts...good luck with it.
Mike

[Anonymous]

Dave:

Another thought. The Iron ridge and Mayville on page 41 of 101 Track Plans from Kalmbach is just the kind of railroad you're looking for. You could easily adapt the best from it and your plan.

Mike