a call to operators

[dcs077]

Hi all,

as i am nearly finished laying all my track on my layout i am currently trying to formulate a method of operation. i have roughly 1 scale mile of mainline and 6 or 7 industries along the main. i also have a coal branch that leads to a mine. roughly half way along this branch there is also an interchange. at the begining of this branch i have a  helper station for the mainline as well as a small 2 track yard for sorting loads and empties to and from the mine.. as i do not have alot of experience with prototype operations i am wondering what sort of system i should develop. i would like to run a local that would work the interchange on the branch and switch the industries along the main with the local returning to the  interchange and power back to the town where the branch originates.  does this go against prototype practice? i would also like to incorporate a mine run that will switch the mine eg replace loads with empties . the mine tracks will hold approx 12 cars.my averages train is 2 locomotives,15 cars and a caboose. i was thinking of the scenario card system described in an old mr but i think this method may limit operating potential. as i do not want all loads that come from the mine to go into a dedicated unit train all the time but switch some into a through train.sometimes i would also like to have the ability to be able to have a dedicated coal train when traffic requirement needs one so it can be assembled , power added then run along the main and into staging. i have heard of the car/card forwarding system but unsure how to impliment it.i am trying to provide as much info so you guys can help more effectively. how can i effectively use my 4 staging tracks to enhance car movements from unmodeled origins and destinations. i do not want to incorporate a large amount of paperwork but i would like the requirement to have some as to give the feeling of the prototype. how do i work out the requirements for each industry and would the mine need some different method for orperation. do i use the coal hoppers as blocks or treat them as individual cars as i do not have a thorough understanding of coal operations......so many questions, please help. i am choking on my own ignorance lol. if anyone requires any additional information to help  let me know as i would like to draw on as much experience as i can. i model the chessie system in the late 1980s.

 

thanks in advance

 

Dan

[Anonymous]

I am not an operation expert, but from what I read in your post, you have pretty much described your operation. All you need to do is assign cars to your train(s), which you can do by using a card system. The card identifies the car, the "load" and its destination. Use the back of the card for returning the car as an "empty". Each card should be stored at the location, where your car is. It is handy to have some storage facility available at that location. Select the cards which are supposed to make up your train, switch the cars to make up the consist and here is your train!

[wedudler]

I would start with a list for all industries, example.

Then you can make a schedule and timetable.And of course you need car cards & waybills.

And this is my HowTo with freight  operation.

You can simple run your trains or you can incorporate a system like Timetable & Trainorder or Track Warrant Control.

Have a good start!

Wolfgang

 

[BRAKIE]

Dan,You pretty well sum up day to day branch line operations including a through freight picking up the outbound car and leaving the inbound cars for the branch line..

As far as car card/waybills there are several good methods.I will show you mine.

All of my car cards are printed on 3x5 index card and look like this:

Each card has a clear waybill pocket from clear heavy note book divider sheets..

Waybills are made from cutting a 3x5 index card in half and here's the result.

Each car has 10 waybills that way I won't be thinking-there's that M&B boxcar going to North American Knitting again..

I also have several  "empty for load"  waybills.However,90% of the cars C&HV handles is inbound loads.

When the car is spotted I simply pull the waybill and return it to the waybill box..

Now the car is empty and routed back to its home rails without needing a sperate waybill.

[dehusman]

Two words of advice.  Paragraphs.  Capitalization.  Makes is so much easier to figure out what you are asking.

 

as i am nearly finished laying all my track on my layout i am currently trying to formulate a method of operation. i have roughly 1 scale mile of mainline and 6 or 7 industries along the main.

 

Just as a thought for future layouts.  Think about what you wan thte operation to be BEFORE you lay the tracks.  Makes it easier to support the operation.

 

i also have a coal branch that leads to a mine. roughly half way along this branch there is also an interchange. at the begining of this branch i have a  helper station for the mainline as well as a small 2 track yard for sorting loads and empties to and from the mine.

You have a lot going on in a small space.  What about staging?

 

as i do not have alot of experience with prototype operations i am wondering what sort of system i should develop.

 

For.....  Are wanting to know how to run the trains or how to give the cars destinations?  Two separate problems.

 

i would like to run a local that would work the interchange on the branch and switch the industries along the main with the local returning to the  interchange and power back to the town where the branch originates.  does this go against prototype practice?

 

First off lose the concept of "towns".  Think in terms of stations (a  station is a named place on a railroad) and yards (places where cars are switched and trains originate and terminate)

 

You can do anything you want.  Since you have built the railroad and then asked how to operate it, don't worry about being absolutely prototypical since it probably won't work the same way.

 

The local should be based out of the yard.  It originates out of the yard and can work all the industries on the branch and the main.  It will bring all the cars back to the yard when its done.  At the yard it will separate the cars into 3 groups.  Cars going out on the local the next day, cars going east/north and cars going west/south.  The cars going in other directions will be picked up by through freights and those freights will set out cars going to the industries the local serves.

If you want the coal mine to serve single carloads then you might as well have the local switch it too.  An empty coal train could set out a block of empties, the local would spot them, pull the loads and bring them to the junction.  A loaded coal train would pick up the loads and take them wherever.

 

 

i would also like to incorporate a mine run that will switch the mine eg replace loads with empties . the mine tracks will hold approx 12 cars.my averages train is 2 locomotives,15 cars and a caboose.

 

You can do that too, but you said you didn't want a unit train.  Regardless of what you call it running a solid empty train up the branch and running a solid loaded train down the branch will look and operate identical whether you call it a unit train or not.

 

 

i was thinking of the scenario card system described in an old mr but i think this method may limit operating potential. as i do not want all loads that come from the mine to go into a dedicated unit train all the time but switch some into a through train.sometimes

 

On the prototype, if they are going to have a coal train work the mine then the coal train isn't going to bother switching the yard and won't bother setting cars out for another train to pick up, especially if its going in manifest service.  It would take the cars to a bigger yard and they would switch them into the manifest train right from the get go.  Once again you can do whatever you want to do.

 

  i have heard of the car/card forwarding system but unsure how to impliment it.i am trying to provide as much info so you guys can help more effectively. how can i effectively use my 4 staging tracks to enhance car movements from unmodeled origins and destinations.

 

You will need one car card for each car and then waybills to direct the movements.  Some people set up waybills for one waybill per shipment (one empty "move" to spot an empty, one move to route the load or one move to spot the load and one move to return the empty)  Some people use 4 move waybills (typically load-empty-load-empty) where the pairs of moves may not be to the same place or even the same commodity.

 

i do not want to incorporate a large amount of paperwork but i would like the requirement to have some as to give the feeling of the prototype. how do i work out the requirements for each industry and would the mine need some different method for orperation. do i use the coal hoppers as blocks or treat them as individual cars as i do not have a thorough understanding of coal operations.

 

 

Car cards and waybills are easy to make with a spreadsheet or word processor and some heavy paper.  Or you can buy them from MicroMark.  You might want to buy a starter set then use those to make some yourself to practice with.  After you know what you want to do , then fill out the "real" ones.

 

In the 1980's most of the coal tonnage will be in unit amounts, relatively little coal was single carload shipments.  Most of the coal will be one grade.  One coal mine may ship to one destination (power plant, export terminal, barge terminal) or may ship to a limited set of destinations. 

Don't get too hung up on prototype.  Since you built it first then are trying to figure out how to operate it, there will probably be places that things won't match the prototype.  Just decide what you want to do to have fun and go with that.

[ratled]

Dave gave you some real good info.

This should help quite a bit http://www.gatewaynmra.org/designops.htm and this  http://www.gatewaynmra.org/articles/essence-of-ops.htm 

And you will want to look at this http://www.gatewaynmra.org/operate.htm for the rest of the list of articles .

Hook up with these guys.  They a have $5 on line subscription you can't beat and you get to go to ops sessions http://www.opsig.org/

You'll want to check E bay and Amazon for this for the long haul  Chubb, Bruce: How to Operate Your Model Railroad (Kalmbach 1977)

ratled

 

 

 

 

[BRAKIE]

Dave wrote:

On the prototype, if they are going to have a coal train work the mine then the coal train isn't going to bother switching the yard and won't bother setting cars out for another train to pick up, especially if its going in manifest service.  It would take the cars to a bigger yard and they would switch them into the manifest train right from the get go.  Once again you can do whatever you want to do.

-----------------------------------------

Dave,A coal shifter will do just that..Don't confuse a coal train with a mine run..Even in the 80s some mines loaded "tide coal" and "lake coal" at the same time. We would leave the tide coal at Catlettsburg.This would be picked up by a Eastbound coal train heading East toward a sea port..

I recall one time we picked 60 or 70 cars of "tide coal" on the Big Sandy Sub and sit off  at Catlettsburg and returned to Russel as a light move.

[richhotrain]

dehusman

Two words of advice.  Paragraphs.  Capitalization.  Makes is so much easier to figure out what you are asking.

LOL

Painful, but true.

[Motley]

JMRI (Decoder Pro) has an Operations application that you can use to manage cars, waybills, industries, etc. That's what I'm planning on doing when I get my layout to the point where I can have an official operating session.

You just build a train and it prints out a manifests for you. And keeps track of which cars are where. ie. yard, industry, staging, etc.

JMRI

[gandydancer19]

Car cards are almost free if you make them yourself, but soon you will get to the point that you will know every move all of your cars will make.

I have operated my layouts with Car Cards, a Tab on Car system, and a Computer generated Manifest system called Rail Op.

I prefer Rail Op.  The main reason is because I operate alone quite a bit of the time, and with the computer generating the trains and manifests, it becomes a random type traffic generation system. You can either generate trains and print the manifests ahead of time, or you can operate in real time, generating trains and manifests as you go.

All of the things that you want to do can be set up using it.  But as any good computer program, there is a learning curve.  On the up side, there is a very knowledgable user group at YahooGroups.  They are a friendly bunch and are willing to help.

[dcs077]

thanks for all the info.

the thing i would like to know is how do you work out what demands your industries have for an operating session? like how many cars and of what type. this is true especially for the mine ( obviously the mine needs hoppers) as i do not want the same demands every session.

 

[ratled]

Solo Op’s?   2-3 operators?  Also a track plan would help us.  (Have you named everything yet?)

 

Dan start off simple.  Place few cars in the industries that need to be picked up, few cars in the small yard that need to be delivered, a mine track of full cars and say train in staging with a mixed load to that is next to go out (onto the layout). Add a coal train of empties “on deck” in staging waiting to go next.  Be sure to leave an empty track in staging for trains leaving the layout to be able to go somewhere.  Make up a couple train job cards and give it test drive.

 

For a simple car forwarding I would just use the “one for one” method at 1st and no paperwork – for every car picked up drop a like kind off. Adjust as need.  Repeat.  Try a switch list after a few runs and see if you like that. Adjust.  Make up a few simple card cards and way bills and try that a few runs.  Adjust.

 

The most important thing is some where in there have fun!!

Another link for you http://s145079212.onlinehome.us/rr/operations/index.shtml.  be sure to see the 3rd one down in this section http://s145079212.onlinehome.us/rr/operations/ccwb.html

 

I would also look at either getting to an Op’s session (Op’s SIG) or something like Model Train videos Live Op’s 1-4 which are one hour long DVDs each on a single Op’s session each. Or maybe Paul Scole’s Op’s DVD

 

ratled

[dcs077]

thanks for the help to all of you.  Now i have a better understanding of it all. i will look at setting up the car card system.

 

 

Dan

[Motley]

You might want to pick up this book on Operations. book

[mokenarr]

I too am just starting in operations , my layout is similar in length and industries.  I use the system that has cards for each car and for each industry.  I make those up then tranfer the info to a switch list for each train and for the yard.   So far so good, but one thing i decided real early was to start simple and go from there.  The trains from the staging tracks are scheduled only to the order they will appear.  Any train from the yard is run as an extra.  Started this after session 2. After a session , there are just 2 operators, we look at things , decided what works and what does not.  Then add something to make it better.   But like i said , keep it simple at first and add as you want.  Remember it is suppose to be fun and if you are overwhlmed with the opeartion , you will stop doing it.

[Milepost 266.2]

gandydancer19

Car cards are almost free if you make them yourself, but soon you will get to the point that you will know every move all of your cars will make.

The trick is to remove the waybill from the car card when the car is empty.  The empty car card can route the car to a home yard, where it will get a new waybill for  that type car.   So if you six destinations that can receive boxcars, every boxcar on the layout will eventually visit all six locations.

[BRAKIE]

Milepost 266.2

gandydancer19:

Car cards are almost free if you make them yourself, but soon you will get to the point that you will know every move all of your cars will make.

 

The trick is to remove the waybill from the car card when the car is empty.  The empty car card can route the car to a home yard, where it will get a new waybill for  that type car.   So if you six destinations that can receive boxcars, every boxcar on the layout will eventually visit all six locations.

Absolutely!

Each of my cars has 10 waybills..That means my cars will visit 9 industries before visting the same industry again..That doesn't include the "empty for load".