jwhitten "Weather Now or Later?" To my mind, weathering is one of those "which comes first?" type of things. In nature, weathering happens all at once to everything everywhere. On the layout on the other hand, weathering occurs as we apply it, where we apply it and when we apply it. With trains and things that move (or supposedly move) the strategy seems kinda straightforward-- trains travel and over time, the cars and locos tend to get dispersed and end up at various places independently of each other. So weathering those individually might seem a good way to go. On the other hand, if you're going to build a whole section of a town, should you build all the structures first and then go back and weather them as a set-- as a whole scene? Or is it better to weather them individually on the workbench as they are constructed? Which do you think makes the more coherent scene? Does it matter? In addition to my home layout where I model SP in the early 1900's, I also like to model later SP steam which I run with a local modular group. At present, I only have an AC-12 and AC-5 and I am working on PFE reefer blocks for these locos to pull. Accordingly I agree with John's philosophy that weathering each car individually is the way to go at least up to a point because many of these cars are blocked and may or may not end up together in the same place over time. Therefore, I weather them in groups from new to old and very dirty and disperse these cars sometimes individually and some times in blocks throughout the same train which breaks up the monotony of seeing identical cars in a long train passing through a large modular layout. These PFE reefer blocks can end up on the east coast and many places in between and it was very interesting to see several of these PFE blocks in various states of cleanliness in a freight yard on Manhattan Island in New Your City in a picture on page 98 of the October issue of MR 2010. I just had to weather one of my reefers as extreme as the car in the bottom left hand corner of this picture. I was also wondering if these blocks might have been pulled along the way there by a NYC Niagara or Hudson? Peter Smith, Memphis Your thoughts? John
"Weather Now or Later?"
To my mind, weathering is one of those "which comes first?" type of things. In nature, weathering happens all at once to everything everywhere. On the layout on the other hand, weathering occurs as we apply it, where we apply it and when we apply it. With trains and things that move (or supposedly move) the strategy seems kinda straightforward-- trains travel and over time, the cars and locos tend to get dispersed and end up at various places independently of each other. So weathering those individually might seem a good way to go. On the other hand, if you're going to build a whole section of a town, should you build all the structures first and then go back and weather them as a set-- as a whole scene? Or is it better to weather them individually on the workbench as they are constructed? Which do you think makes the more coherent scene? Does it matter?
In addition to my home layout where I model SP in the early 1900's, I also like to model later SP steam which I run with a local modular group. At present, I only have an AC-12 and AC-5 and I am working on PFE reefer blocks for these locos to pull. Accordingly I agree with John's philosophy that weathering each car individually is the way to go at least up to a point because many of these cars are blocked and may or may not end up together in the same place over time. Therefore, I weather them in groups from new to old and very dirty and disperse these cars sometimes individually and some times in blocks throughout the same train which breaks up the monotony of seeing identical cars in a long train passing through a large modular layout. These PFE reefer blocks can end up on the east coast and many places in between and it was very interesting to see several of these PFE blocks in various states of cleanliness in a freight yard on Manhattan Island in New Your City in a picture on page 98 of the October issue of MR 2010. I just had to weather one of my reefers as extreme as the car in the bottom left hand corner of this picture. I was also wondering if these blocks might have been pulled along the way there by a NYC Niagara or Hudson?
Peter Smith, Memphis
Your thoughts?
John
JTG richhotrain: It's not that I don't like the appearance of the weathering effect. It is that I lack the nerve, and the basic skill, to take an expensive locomotive, or a nice piece of rolling stock, or a beautifully painted structure, and mess it up by my novice efforts. While other types of mistakes can be covered or reversed or undone, how do you undo a bad weathering effort? Rich I feel your pain, RIch. I haven't taken the plunge into weathering yet, but I'm kind of looking forward to it. I believe if you use chalk, for instance, you can always wipe it off if you don't like your handiwork. Of course, if you do like your handiwork, you'll have to seal it with dullcoat, at which point it becomes irrversible without stripping the model.
richhotrain: It's not that I don't like the appearance of the weathering effect. It is that I lack the nerve, and the basic skill, to take an expensive locomotive, or a nice piece of rolling stock, or a beautifully painted structure, and mess it up by my novice efforts. While other types of mistakes can be covered or reversed or undone, how do you undo a bad weathering effort? Rich
It's not that I don't like the appearance of the weathering effect. It is that I lack the nerve, and the basic skill, to take an expensive locomotive, or a nice piece of rolling stock, or a beautifully painted structure, and mess it up by my novice efforts.
While other types of mistakes can be covered or reversed or undone, how do you undo a bad weathering effort?
Rich
I feel your pain, RIch. I haven't taken the plunge into weathering yet, but I'm kind of looking forward to it. I believe if you use chalk, for instance, you can always wipe it off if you don't like your handiwork. Of course, if you do like your handiwork, you'll have to seal it with dullcoat, at which point it becomes irrversible without stripping the model.
Well... I have gotten into the habit of weathering the freight cars as I acquire them - First, I record them with photos and upload a data file on Yard Office software - I can easily inventory and track all my fleet and its a great way to have an insurance record backed up.(That's another post)
Anyway, I weather each car on arrival to suit my tastes, and I start with the Trucks and wheels - these show the most wear on most cars so I concentrate on this area.
It really comes down to what you percieve as how the car should look. New, recently in service or aged.
I use mostly airbrushing for my weathering with a little chaulk and some occasional small washes with a 000 brush.
Hope this helps you out.
Have fun!
HeritageFleet1
shayfan84325 JoeinPA: But buildings are not all built at the same time (unless you're looking at a new housing development) so wouldn't they naturally will have varying degrees of weathering? Joe I'm with Joe on this, and I'll add that some buildings in the 1:1 world receive more care and upkeep than others - varying degrees of weathering makes sense to me.
JoeinPA: But buildings are not all built at the same time (unless you're looking at a new housing development) so wouldn't they naturally will have varying degrees of weathering? Joe
But buildings are not all built at the same time (unless you're looking at a new housing development) so wouldn't they naturally will have varying degrees of weathering?
Joe
I'm with Joe on this, and I'll add that some buildings in the 1:1 world receive more care and upkeep than others - varying degrees of weathering makes sense to me.
Well, the way that I look at weathering is actually twofold.
There is aging, then dirt, dust, smoke, and all the other things that happen to a building. I think aging is different than weathering. And yes, not all buildings are constructed at the same time. BUT, around railroads with industries, they were usually established very early, so most of the building were built within five or ten years of each other, 75 to 100 years ago or more. So unless a building burned down and was replaced, there isn't much variation in their weathering and aging.
When I build a building, I do AGE it as it is built and painted. That consists of fading and peeling paint, and color changes due to exposer to the elements. Once all buildings are done in a particular area, then I weather them with rust, dirt, grime, and rain streaks depending on there location to the tracks and traffic.
As for fading paint techniques, I use two different ones. Sometimes I will add some light gray or white to the paint as I am painting the building. Then sometimes I will wait until all the painting is done and then use gray or white chalks to lighten the paint. If you use chalks, you can get it off before you over-spray it with clear flat if you don't like it.
Weathering is mostly done with a black or brown wash that simulates dirt and grime. This collects into all the little nooks and cracks etc. This I do after all building for a specific location are completed.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
JoeinPA But buildings are not all built at the same time (unless you're looking at a new housing development) so wouldn't they naturally will have varying degrees of weathering? Joe
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
I usually weather a couple of buildings at the same time. This is only because I have all of the stuff out to do it. That being said, I have a few buildings that don't have much or any. I need to get a round tuit before anything happens! Now rolling stock and locos have no weathering because I haven't decided how I want to do it. I'd hate to ruin something with my amateurish skills. Some day I'll sacrifice something to the practice gods!
I do both, weathering some when I build them and some after they are on the layout. Whichever works best for time and location. If its a stand alone structure I might weather it after its built. If its a group of buildings I might wait til they are on the layout to get a more consistent pattern.
Either way works.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
richhotrain Can I change the title of this thread to, "Weather Now or Later or Not At All? Of all the skills that I have attempted to develop over the past 7 year period including painting, glueing, carpentry, electrical, landscaping, track laying, wiring, etc., I have never once attempted to weather anything. It's not that I don't like the appearance of the weathering effect. It is that I lack the nerve, and the basic skill, to take an expensive locomotive, or a nice piece of rolling stock, or a beautifully painted structure, and mess it up by my novice efforts. While other types of mistakes can be covered or reversed or undone, how do you undo a bad weathering effort? Rich
Can I change the title of this thread to, "Weather Now or Later or Not At All?
Of all the skills that I have attempted to develop over the past 7 year period including painting, glueing, carpentry, electrical, landscaping, track laying, wiring, etc., I have never once attempted to weather anything.
I have an around the walls layout so every structure has at least one hidden side which I often use to experiment with painting and weathering techniques. If I mess it up, no big deal. I can paint over it and try again until I get something I like. That's not a luxury you have with rolling stock and locos. For that, I will use an old piece that I don't have use for and use that as the guinea pig.
John - I weather the structures for my city scenes individually before they go on the layout, but I'm also careful not to overdo my weathering on any one. Far too many modelers today simply run amuck with their weathering (and the debilitated state of too many of their buildings, as well), resulting in scenes that are downright caricaturish, rather than anywhere near realistic.
There is something specific and quite important that I've not seen mentioned here in previous posters' approaches to weathering their buildings and that is some sort of unifying aspect that brings a scene together. Although you appear to have at least suggested it early on in this thread, others have seemingly passed over how to create this sense of homogeneity to the buildings in a scene. One needs to have something that brings all the scene's elements together, especially in an urban setting to make it realistic.
My approach to this and one that has also been espoused by Dave Frary is to apply some final, very subtle, application of a single muting color to the scene. In my case it is applied to just the buildings and their surroundings, but Dave includes everything in every scene: trees, vehicles, people, etc. I do this final unifying element by dusting all the structures, streets and sidewalks with very fine, real, dirt. Since my regular weathering is not intense, this approach - just a dusting on all surfaces - mutes the weathering further yet and serves to produce a certain sameness, or homogeneity, to all the structures in the scene. As a result, no single building, whatever color, or texture, really stands out relative to the other surrounding structures.
CNJ831
Thanks, JTG.
I wonder if you are at risk of having the chalk run and streak when applying the Dullcoat?
Alton Junction
richhotrain It's not that I don't like the appearance of the weathering effect. It is that I lack the nerve, and the basic skill, to take an expensive locomotive, or a nice piece of rolling stock, or a beautifully painted structure, and mess it up by my novice efforts. While other types of mistakes can be covered or reversed or undone, how do you undo a bad weathering effort? Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Buildings may be in fixed locations (or maybe not since many were moved in the past, especially from about 1870 to 1930) and subject to the same weather - BUT, they are built at different times, using different materials, they have different owners who attend to them in different ways (or not) and they are modified, remodeled, rebuilt, repurposed as needed as time marches on. So to me, and from my experiance in real life, each one is unique and likely to display that in how they age. So I weather them individually on the bench. Sheldon
Buildings may be in fixed locations (or maybe not since many were moved in the past, especially from about 1870 to 1930) and subject to the same weather - BUT, they are built at different times, using different materials, they have different owners who attend to them in different ways (or not) and they are modified, remodeled, rebuilt, repurposed as needed as time marches on.
So to me, and from my experiance in real life, each one is unique and likely to display that in how they age.
So I weather them individually on the bench.
Sheldon
I do agree that buildings are built at different times-- and are subject to varying degrees of upkeep as well, another item not to lose sight of-- and thus would naturally tend to weather differently and in differing amounts. Also factors such as where they are located, what they are situated near to, etc. would be factors as well. However, even acknowledging all of that, there is a "commonality" to a locale in its weathering. Buildings-- structures, cars, whatever, that spends the bulk of its existance in one place will tend to weather similarly to other items that are in the same vicinity. By this I don't mean necessarily to the same degree, but will be impacted and influenced by the same elements. They'll share the same wind and the same dirt, which will be colored similarly as its from the same region, etc. There will obviously be differences in the way any particular individual item is weathered, especially over time, but items that are similarly situated will have a common "wash"-- I suppose 'patina' is more the correct word. That's what I was thinking about and prompted my question this week.
For now, I don't weather much of anything at all. I don't have a layout currently and am collecting locos and rolling stock. I have built a few structures, but they are not weathered. I will paint the wheels of my locos and rolling stock a rusty color, but it could be that I don't like seeing shiny wheels on any kind of train equipment.
Will
Personally, it depends upon how new looking you wish the building or piece of rolling stock to look when it appears on the layout. Intriguingly enough if a structure that was not weathered when it was first assembled, if it stays inplace long enough, it will often times "self weather". Colors fade slightly, household dust ends to settle into natural places ( at least in my basement....one of these days I need to rethink my in house realestate negotiating strategies, but I digress), and slowly glossy styrene begins to look rather dull and ordinary.
One other approach is to paint or stain with shades that are closer to the pastel range of color intensity, instead of the stronger primary colors. Dull Coat and weathering powders are part of my work bench tool kit, but I do try to use them somewhat sparingly.
jwhitten "Weather Now or Later?" To my mind, weathering is one of those "which comes first?" type of things. In nature, weathering happens all at once to everything everywhere. On the layout on the other hand, weathering occurs as we apply it, where we apply it and when we apply it. With trains and things that move (or supposedly move) the strategy seems kinda straightforward-- trains travel and over time, the cars and locos tend to get dispersed and end up at various places independently of each other. So weathering those individually might seem a good way to go. On the other hand, if you're going to build a whole section of a town, should you build all the structures first and then go back and weather them as a set-- as a whole scene? Or is it better to weather them individually on the workbench as they are constructed? Which do you think makes the more coherent scene? Does it matter? Your thoughts? John
John, I will answer this not only as a modeler, but also from my perspective as a construction professional who has built buildings, designed buildings, restored buildings and inspected buildings in my 25+ year career in those trades.
Sorry, I can't resist the urge to show a 12" = 1" weathering example.
A French director on location in Texas needed a small false front at a corner to block the view of an apparently too ordinary and modern looking drinking establishment in what was supposed to be a picturesque coastal fishing town.
It was put up in a couple of days and painted to look like it had been been painted 30- 40- maybe 50 years ago---
Closeup of paint surface. New plywood first painted with gray weathered wood color and texture. Probably quick drying though I didn't see it done. Then painted with a thick rubbery-based paint in off white...and then distressed with a blowtorch that makes it peel.
12" = 1' version of what we sometimes do with rubber cement and a rubber cement pickup.
I weather each building as I build/ finish it the way I think it should be weathered.
As was pointed out different buildings may be built at different times, and there is the various upkeep issues {such as fresh or fresher paint- even on some brick buildings around here} and in-use {the amount a building is used or neglected in use} that will determine how a building should look.
So I vote for "now" to weather a building I guess.
Funny thing is I will weather my buildings but won't weather my RR equipment. I prefer to think my RR keeps them in pristine condition at all times.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
leighant Other than "open-the-box" items I plunk down on the layout, I don't usually need to weather my structures. My construction techniques are so messy that most of what I do much of anything to to pre-weathered... either I use non-glossy and muted paints. In a few extreme cases, I stain things to "pre-weather: them, using paint to simulate old wood, and then thinned paint in a stain to simulate paint that has just about all faded away. I can hardly imagine painting something in "perfect new" colors and then trying to add something on top of it to make it look weathered. I remember how I had to grit my teeth when I built a grain elevator headhouse for the club layout, and then sometime when I was not there, another member did a "generic" weathering job on it.
Other than "open-the-box" items I plunk down on the layout, I don't usually need to weather my structures. My construction techniques are so messy that most of what I do much of anything to to pre-weathered... either I use non-glossy and muted paints. In a few extreme cases, I stain things to "pre-weather: them, using paint to simulate old wood, and then thinned paint in a stain to simulate paint that has just about all faded away.
I can hardly imagine painting something in "perfect new" colors and then trying to add something on top of it to make it look weathered.
I remember how I had to grit my teeth when I built a grain elevator headhouse for the club layout, and then sometime when I was not there, another member did a "generic" weathering job on it.
Wow! Is that a "layout within a layout" ?? That is the coolest idea ever! Bravo.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
When I build a structure or a rolling stock kit, I weather it as it's assembled. It's easier and more thorough that way. It's part of the paint job. Otherwise, I have to remove the trucks and couplers, or mask the windows. So, when these arrive at the layout, they are "done." As long as the rolling stock keeps working mechanically, it never needs to fear a trip to the workshop.
I don't build engine kits. I have built a couple of trolleys, but, as well-maintained symbols of the prosperity of Moose Bay, these are kept in clean, pristine shape. As for RTR rolling stock and engines, though, well, there I've got the "kid at Christmas" syndrome, just like I did when I was a kid, at Christmas. As soon as they are in the house, they are on the layout. Eventually, my engines have gotten weathered, and most of the RTR rolling stock as well, but it's not a job that gets done when I'm hot-and-heavy on scenery-building and tracklaying.
Joe is right, of course. Automobiles, rolling stock and structures each have their own age. Some look old, some look new. We need to remember that, and only "selectively weather" our layouts.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I think that weathering buildings should be done at the same time so one can achieve that cohesive or sameness look. That is what I am doing. Completing all of the buildings for one section, and then weathering them all at once.
The reason? Depending on how much time has gone by from when the first building was finished to the last one, you (I) may forget what colors and techniques were actually used.
When I was into weathering I did it as soon as the had the kit built. But after a year, I lost interest in weathering. Not that I was bad at it, like to think my Rail Road is doing well and there are keeping there cars clean.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust