Here's a link to the MTH site with video of the engine:
http://mthtrains.com/news/466
Compared to the older brass versions of the Bi-Polar, the MTH model is a good piece. Details and finish are fine, the model runs good, but is not the strongest puller. Sound is good as well.
The Bi-Polars were delivered in black in 1919 and beside occasionally applied white trim lines, they stayed black for almost 30 years. With intoduction of the Olympian Hiawatha in 1949, the first Bi-Polars were painted orange, with different styles tested. Check Noel Holleys book "The Milwaukee Electrics" to learn more.
Michael
Hello to everyone.
I would be interested in knowing something more about MTH Bipolar locomotive: reproduction's fidelity, running characteristics and so on. Have you found any problem with regard to it?
Moreover, which was the "black paint scheme Bipolar" service period? Perhaps the 1920's?
Many thanks....
Here is a link to the photo of the yellow:
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1958-milwaukee-road-bipolar-e-1-original-color
The issue isnt the color scheme, it the prototype. The yellow should be on a modernized Bi Polar.
Supermicha Sorry, but i don´t want to spend 500 dollars for an incorrect model that i have to repaint. MTH was, is and will be a toy train manufacturer. Not more...
Sorry, but i don´t want to spend 500 dollars for an incorrect model that i have to repaint. MTH was, is and will be a toy train manufacturer. Not more...
Which is why they were called Mike's Toy House....
Just deal with it...if you want it, buy the one least problematic and do the paintwork yourself...since you already done the research...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Supermicha the yellow is fantasy
the yellow is fantasy
There were ones that were actually yellow.
Supermicha As discussed in several groups and forums, the MTH Bi-Polars have several mistakes in the paint. The black one is the only correct one, the yellow is fantasy and the others have errors. Rainer Hartmann of All American Trains talked to MTH at Trainfest regarding that and they answered that there are some things wrong, but since they wanted to have it in stores this year, they had not much time for proper research. And because the models are already in production, there are no changes possible. Sorry, but i don´t want to spend 500 dollars for an incorrect model that i have to repaint. MTH was, is and will be a toy train manufacturer. Not more...
As discussed in several groups and forums, the MTH Bi-Polars have several mistakes in the paint. The black one is the only correct one, the yellow is fantasy and the others have errors. Rainer Hartmann of All American Trains talked to MTH at Trainfest regarding that and they answered that there are some things wrong, but since they wanted to have it in stores this year, they had not much time for proper research. And because the models are already in production, there are no changes possible.
Didn't you get the memo? Picking on MTH or suggesting that any model train is anything more than a toy is strickly forbidden. Just search for other threads about MTH and see how many are locked.
Sheldon
Wrong color paint scheme? What a pity! It´s a shame for an otherwise good looking model!
Welcome to the Bipolar electric. I´ve seen it many years ago, made in brass, painted, and there I known that one day, it will be mine (not in brass, but...). The problem is if the MTH model will run with both pantographs down: it is unprototipically (the -common- lack of a catenary in a layout also it it is), but I´m affraid that pantographs totally high, will knock any tunnel or bridge !!!. What do you think?
First off the Bi-polars were used on the western part of the Milwaukee from Tacoma to maybe Othello,WA on the east. Then there was a steam division from Othello to Avery ID. Then the electric division using little joes from Avery to Harlowton Montana. I know for pretty sure that the Milwaukee tracks thru the mountains have been torn up, and then the Othello division is mostly gone. I don't know about the western division. I think theres some Milwaukee track left from ST. Mariesover to Plummer ID and then maybe from plummer up to Spokane but its under different managment now.I'm sur someone more knowledgable will fill us in. BILL in Idaho
twhite And don't forget the Milwaukee's trackage on St. Paul's Pass between Montana and Idaho. If you're liking mountain railroading, that's one of the most incredibly SPECTACULAR pieces of Western Mountain trackage I've ever seen. Okay, it's abandoned now, but it's a Forest Service bike and hiking trail with the big trestles still in place, and it can just pop your eyeballs! Consider modeling THAT area with a Bi-Polar or Little Joe. Whoa!! Tom
And don't forget the Milwaukee's trackage on St. Paul's Pass between Montana and Idaho. If you're liking mountain railroading, that's one of the most incredibly SPECTACULAR pieces of Western Mountain trackage I've ever seen. Okay, it's abandoned now, but it's a Forest Service bike and hiking trail with the big trestles still in place, and it can just pop your eyeballs!
Consider modeling THAT area with a Bi-Polar or Little Joe. Whoa!!
Tom
Yes, you´re totally right about the St. Paul´s Pass. The secenery is incredible. No wonder that many people think that MILW had the most scenic route of all northwestern railroads. And in my eyes, nothing beats the MILW scenery in Montana/Idaho/Washington, the D&RGW in Colorado and the SP/WP on Donner Pass. I think these spots are the most beautiful of any other railroad line in the US.
About the abandoned MILW track: is ALL the ex MILW track been abandoned and transformed into biking/hiking trails, or is there still some MILW track in Montana/Idaho/Washington in use or operational condition?
I´m very much into mountain railroading, and I really think now of putting a catenary on a single (mountain) track on my future layout. It will look odd because of my SP/T&P/AT&SF trains, but a MILW streamliner pulled by electrics sure is an eye candy on every layout.
Looking more at that EP2 Bi-Polar, I'm almost disappointed that I'm trying to slow down on my train buying. I'm getting the BLI Dreyfuss Hudson, and then I won't be buying much HO after that for a while. I am planning to get a Lionel 254 EP2 Bi-Polar with some 607 and 608 passenger cars probably next year, but I'm starting to get enough HO that I don't know where to put it all sometimes.
As long as we're talking about MTH Bi-Polars, anyone ever seen this massive model before? It's based off a Lionel standard gauge monster that never made it to production.
_________________________________________________________________
De Luxe That BiPolar looks really really good! Even if I don´t have catenary it would be nice to have and see this loco operating. And now that we have a Little Joe and a BiPolar, I hope it´s only a question of time when we will also have a prototypical Olympian Hiawatha trainset, first time in non brass. I would go for it immediately, it´s the most unique streamliner in my eyes! Although I´m more the SP/T&P/AT&SF fan, the MILW comes right next, and it was always my favorite northwestern road with it´s nice colors and mostly unique locos and trains. Now that Walthers made the E7´s and the Twin Cities Hiawatha, Fox Valley the 4-4-2 Atlantic and the Morning/Noon Hiawatha, and MTH the Little Joe and the BiPolar, the only thing left to make is an Olympian Hiawatha, a matching FM Erie A-B-A Unit, a heavyweight Olympian and the matching S-1/S-2/S-3 4-8-4 Northerns and N-1/N-2/N-3 2-6-6-2 Mallets, and then the MILW feast will be complete!
That BiPolar looks really really good! Even if I don´t have catenary it would be nice to have and see this loco operating. And now that we have a Little Joe and a BiPolar, I hope it´s only a question of time when we will also have a prototypical Olympian Hiawatha trainset, first time in non brass. I would go for it immediately, it´s the most unique streamliner in my eyes! Although I´m more the SP/T&P/AT&SF fan, the MILW comes right next, and it was always my favorite northwestern road with it´s nice colors and mostly unique locos and trains. Now that Walthers made the E7´s and the Twin Cities Hiawatha, Fox Valley the 4-4-2 Atlantic and the Morning/Noon Hiawatha, and MTH the Little Joe and the BiPolar, the only thing left to make is an Olympian Hiawatha, a matching FM Erie A-B-A Unit, a heavyweight Olympian and the matching S-1/S-2/S-3 4-8-4 Northerns and N-1/N-2/N-3 2-6-6-2 Mallets, and then the MILW feast will be complete!
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Flashwave,
I strip paint when I have to, but given a choice, I would rather not. Nothing MTH has made yet would have me stripping paint, especially at those prices. I'm not paying that kind of money to rip out useless electronics and strip paint.
Abbv:
Heritagefleet1 The Catenary on the Milwaukee was not a complicated system compared to the NE Corridor -wooden poles with Primary 3 phase overhead and the step-down voltage to the catenary wire stretched across the rail - this would be a lot simpler to model -if one were to take it on...its been done. I wouldn't want to tackle a catenary - no sir. But it wouldn't keep me from running my GG1 on the Club layout if I wanted to do so. And it certainly would not prevent me from buying an excellent model like the electrics from MTH. HeritageFleet1
The Catenary on the Milwaukee was not a complicated system compared to the NE Corridor -wooden poles with Primary 3 phase overhead and the step-down voltage to the catenary wire stretched across the rail - this would be a lot simpler to model -if one were to take it on...its been done.
I wouldn't want to tackle a catenary - no sir. But it wouldn't keep me from running my GG1 on the Club layout if I wanted to do so. And it certainly would not prevent me from buying an excellent model like the electrics from MTH.
HeritageFleet1
I have tried to figure out to make a transportable catenary that doesn't involve a copious amount of framing to protect it. So far no luck. As for the home layout, the catenary will be there. Still debating, whether to put a Bi-polar under
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No. I did not take it personally at all, I simply wanted to take this opportunity to make it clear that any bias I have against MTH is based on facts and on my own needs and buying habits, not just some "emotional" reaction. I don't buy BLI/PCM locos with DCC and sound (unless they are on sale at non sound prices), and when I buy Athearn Genesis, Intermoutain, Proto, etc, it is the DC version for me, usually undecorated except for some B&O, C&O and WM locos for my interchanges.
No. I did not take it personally at all, I simply wanted to take this opportunity to make it clear that any bias I have against MTH is based on facts and on my own needs and buying habits, not just some "emotional" reaction.
I don't buy BLI/PCM locos with DCC and sound (unless they are on sale at non sound prices), and when I buy Athearn Genesis, Intermoutain, Proto, etc, it is the DC version for me, usually undecorated except for some B&O, C&O and WM locos for my interchanges.
If I may, and I agree undec is far easier, but as a mostly plug-and-play modeller holing rattlecans; who hasn't the temprament to kitbash and scratchbuild, I find myself throughly enjoying an aspect you've left out: Paint stripping. As of right now I'm waiting on a Proto shell to dry out from its bath. Yeah, maybe unneccesary work when they should offer undecs to begin with, but it's hardly tedious, and I still feel it falls under the painting aspect fo modeling. And since I'm working with Isopropyl that isn't harmful to shells and remove sfactory paint quite nicely, it doesn't really bother me if someone neglects the undec version.
-Morgan
Actually, installing even "live" catenary is not that difficult - it just take a little patience and soldering skills. Sommerfeldt and Viesmann make nice catenary systems, which could be modified to follow US prototype practice. The main difference is in the height above the rails and the masts.
Unfortunately, both systems are not really bargains.
I have stayed out of this discussion because it is not relevant to my own choices in modelling....until the last three of four posts. Guys, there's no way this side of heaven I'll be installing a catenary. Signals would be a major challenge to me first. But I have a Trix GG1, and I'll be darned if I won't run that thing as if it were a diesel. It is a nice motor, pulls like crazy, and it is a must complement to my Pennsy stable.
So, no matter what anyone may feel about the manufacturer in question, or the strict modelling utility/functionality of this motor, it is sure to be a very nice, even rare, item that would otherwise set any one of us back $700 used in brass....and then we'd have to go to all the trouble to convert it to DCS/DCC.
Jump on 'em, fellas. Get 'em while they're hot.
Crandell
Trynn_Allen2 Well considering how crude the Milw catenary was looking in the 60's and 70's it might just work... ... But I would and do run my steeple cabs, little joe, and this beast (if it's DC and can add my own decoder) without it. If anyone asks: Third rail.
Well considering how crude the Milw catenary was looking in the 60's and 70's it might just work...
... But I would and do run my steeple cabs, little joe, and this beast (if it's DC and can add my own decoder) without it. If anyone asks: Third rail.
At least you are using some imagination ... that's a virtue some forget to utilize when modeling.
I see nothing wrong with running this type of model without the necessity of the catenary - it would be the best looking way to do it but most of us do not model electrified railroads.
I certainly don't think it looks stupid, as one other poster commented, anymore than running 70' passenger cars on a 22" radius does - yet that practice is accepted without much ado.
A better phrase would have been 'unrealistic' and perhaps that is what the poster intended.
Still, I have an open mind about this stuff because as much as I like things being prototypical, there are limits to what a given modeler can recreate based on his or her ability, and there are limits on what can be recreated in scale vs. cost to the consumer.(I'm referring to catenary)
This hobby is supposed to be about enjoyment and imagination - that's what the whole layout concept is - imagination.
Geared Steam LOL You guys never fail to crack me up.
LOL
You guys never fail to crack me up.
I'm sure there are many others that share your sentiment - I'm laughing too. Amazing, isn't it?
Although I also mourn the absence of those bread & butter steam locos we all need for our layouts, I find it remarkable, that MTH is going to produce the MWR Bi-Polar. It is, just as the UP Big Boy or Challenger (and others) a landmark loco and certainly a spectacular one!
Well considering how crude the Milw catenary was looking in the 60's and 70's it might just work.
A general reply to others: As a modeler who does model a portion of the Milw, in the east, I am still very tempted to pick one up, if for no other reasons than for shows. Anything that can hook onlookers to ask questions, take an interest or do a double take is worth it. As my club has 3 different variations of the Hiawatha's running on it, occasionally putting one of these or a my Little Joe on the point of a Hiawatha would break up the diseal monotony and add a little variation to things. CNJ has a point, we have no catenary, it's a pain to move, and as I am the only one interested in the juice jockeys, I am NOT going to ask my club to add catenary to a 16x75' layout. But I would and do run my steeple cabs, little joe, and this beast (if it's DC and can add my own decoder) without it. If anyone asks: Third rail.
AFTER Craig at BLMA produces everything I want (and it's a long and growing list), it'd be nice if he came up with a presentable catenary system. Sort-of-affordable would be nice, too. And, yes, I'm hinting that MTH's version would probably be unacceptably crude. To me. Maybe not to you.
I've dabbled in electrics for awhile (Acela, rectifier, GG1 (old AHM)); but, without overhead, they look just plain stupid running.
And I'll also say, as I said on the Atlas forum, that this model is a bit crude for my taste. Maybe not yours. If I were a Milwaukee modeler, I'd certainly be very ambivalent about this model. Also, if I were a Milwaukee modeler, I would NOT be ambivalent about the Fox Valley Hiawatha. WOW, way nice.
Ed
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
CNJ831 Contrary to all the expressed excitement shown in the above posts, let's look at the potential of this model more realistically. It's a huge electric which will sell for perhaps $500, God knows, maybe more. The number of actual model railroaders with electrified overhead on their layouts is vanishingly small today, so the model can probably only be operated realistically on a very small fraction of one percent of existing layouts. It was also a locomotive essentially unique to the Milwaukee Road...certainly not the most modeled prototype out there. My guess would be that this model is truly appropriate, from a realistic operational, era, road, standpoint, for no more than a few dozen model railroaders, at most! So, what are we honest left with? All I see is yet another model of a very expensive, monster locomotive of very limited application, appealing almost exclusively to the dabbler/collector element in the hobby, just as nearly all the MTH entries in the recent past have been. Sadly, new, work-a-day steam locomotives in HO are increasingly a rarity, in spite of the fact that the transition era remains the most popular to model among hobbyists. What are currently out there meeting this need (i.e. USRA and smaller road-specific examples, like Atlantics, Pacifics and Mikes) are largely older models not up to today's operating standards and specs. Sorry guys, but rather than being overjoyed, all I am is disappointed in MTH's latest entry. CNJ831
Contrary to all the expressed excitement shown in the above posts, let's look at the potential of this model more realistically. It's a huge electric which will sell for perhaps $500, God knows, maybe more. The number of actual model railroaders with electrified overhead on their layouts is vanishingly small today, so the model can probably only be operated realistically on a very small fraction of one percent of existing layouts. It was also a locomotive essentially unique to the Milwaukee Road...certainly not the most modeled prototype out there. My guess would be that this model is truly appropriate, from a realistic operational, era, road, standpoint, for no more than a few dozen model railroaders, at most!
So, what are we honest left with? All I see is yet another model of a very expensive, monster locomotive of very limited application, appealing almost exclusively to the dabbler/collector element in the hobby, just as nearly all the MTH entries in the recent past have been.
Sadly, new, work-a-day steam locomotives in HO are increasingly a rarity, in spite of the fact that the transition era remains the most popular to model among hobbyists. What are currently out there meeting this need (i.e. USRA and smaller road-specific examples, like Atlantics, Pacifics and Mikes) are largely older models not up to today's operating standards and specs. Sorry guys, but rather than being overjoyed, all I am is disappointed in MTH's latest entry.
CNJ831
While I completely agree with your analysis of this, at the very least, it is a good thing that it is not another copy of something already over done.
The collector/dabdler market is likely to get very soft in the current economy, if it has not already done so.