My coupler height guage has been getting quite the workout these days. Since i have had my layout operational (tracked and wired but not yet scenicked), I have encountered many a "troubled" set of couplers, especially on the kits (Athearn [blue box], ConCor, Accurail). Probably the most frustrating thing right now is couplers that do not function right, mainly because they are mostly too low. I have been told that putting some fiber washers between the truck bolster and the frame will remedy the problem. Well, that is, in part, true, but I have put two, sometimes three washers in place on some and they are still too low sometimes.
I have one "Cushioned Car" reefer Athearn Ready-to-Roll, with the couplers too high. Also what I have encountered is that one end is right and the other end is either too low or too high, with the same number of washers on each end. Has anyone else experienced these kinds of problems? If so, what are the remedies?
I assume you're using knuckle couplers, and not horn-hooks. If so, Kadee and McHenry at least (and maybe others) make knuckle couplers with either raised or lowered heads.
Interesting! I have had very good luck with both Athearn blue box and Accurail cars being right on or very close to correct coupler height. Only have a couple of Con-Cor cars, not sure they have gone to the guage station or not. One car (unknown brand) I picked up at a show was a bit low for just washers, so I used 36" wheels and solved that one. In most cases a washer or two has done the trick.
They do make under shank and over shank couplers for major adjustments.
As for the uneven end height, you'll h ave to get them level before you use the guage. Changing one end changes both.
Since it is several cars of several brands, I would doubt it is the cars. When you put the cars on the track and hitch them together before using the guage, are they all different heights? Is your guage perminantly mounted on the test track or do you put it away as I do (at the moment)? If you take it off the track, is something getting under the guage just enough to change it's height? Is there a piece of flash caught in one of the rail grooves of the guage? Another thing might be something under the coupler on the guage.
That's all I can think of at the moment.
Good luck,
Frustrating to be sure but correct coupler height is so important. Somewhat OT but I suspect that those of us who started with the horn-hook, so called X2F coupler of train set fame rarely checked or changed coupler height (and yet it was those darned pins that would catch on crossings and turnouts) -- and we first learned to be fussy about coupler height when we switched to kadees.
The various offset head Kadee couplers are a worthwhile investment to have around for when you find such a car - because in most cases where the coupler is the wrong height as the car comes, it usually seems the car is the right height from the trucks and should not be shimmed higher with the washers (assuming the problem is the coupler needs to be raised). My strong preference is to use the offset coupler rather than play around with shims or those washers on the trucks. But shims and washers are the easy alternative if the proper offset shank couplers are not right there at the workbench when you need them.
Dave Nelson
Are you sure the coupler box cover is completely on tight? If its not, it will let the couplers droop. I have had excelent luck with correct height over the last 20 years with blue box and Accurail with no need for any washers (can't remember the last commercial car I had to shim).
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Sounds like it could be a warp frame or weight-straighten the frame or weight by gently bending the ends up.
Be sure the coupler box snaps into place.
If all else fails cut off the Athearn coupler box and body mount the KD coupler of your choice in its coupler box.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
dknelson Frustrating to be sure but correct coupler height is so important. Somewhat OT but I suspect that those of us who started with the horn-hook, so called X2F coupler of train set fame rarely checked or changed coupler height (and yet it was those darned pins that would catch on crossings and turnouts) -- and we first learned to be fussy about coupler height when we switched to kadees. The various offset head Kadee couplers are a worthwhile investment to have around for when you find such a car - because in most cases where the coupler is the wrong height as the car comes, it usually seems the car is the right height from the trucks and should not be shimmed higher with the washers (assuming the problem is the coupler needs to be raised). My strong preference is to use the offset coupler rather than play around with shims or those washers on the trucks. But shims and washers are the easy alternative if the proper offset shank couplers are not right there at the workbench when you need them. Dave Nelson
As Dave says, the key word here is "offset".
If you go on the Kadee web site, they offer a number of offset couplers, some higher and some lower to accomodate every need. Every coupler on the Kadee web site includes a diagram with the exact dimensions of the coupler including exact height.
Sometimes the design of the car itself necessitates the use of offset couplers.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain If you go on the Kadee web site, they offer a number of offset couplers, some higher and some lower to accomodate every need. Every coupler on the Kadee web site includes a diagram with the exact dimensions of the coupler including exact height. Sometimes the design of the car itself necessitates the use of offset couplers.
Somehow if he is having that much problem with that many cars, especially RTR cars and Accurail cars, I can't help but think there is something else going on here. I have yet to assemble an Accurail car where the installation of a Kadee coupler wasn't dead on in the stock box, only requiring a minor tweaking of the trip pin.
I wonder if the OP know you can bend the trip pin up or down to get clearance? He isn't adjusting the trip pin height by shimming the whole car is he?
dehusman richhotrain: If you go on the Kadee web site, they offer a number of offset couplers, some higher and some lower to accomodate every need. Every coupler on the Kadee web site includes a diagram with the exact dimensions of the coupler including exact height. Sometimes the design of the car itself necessitates the use of offset couplers. Somehow if he is having that much problem with that many cars, especially RTR cars and Accurail cars, I can't help but think there is something else going on here. I have yet to assemble an Accurail car where the installation of a Kadee coupler wasn't dead on in the stock box, only requiring a minor tweaking of the trip pin. I wonder if the OP know you can bend the trip pin up or down to get clearance? He isn't adjusting the trip pin height by shimming the whole car is he?
richhotrain: If you go on the Kadee web site, they offer a number of offset couplers, some higher and some lower to accomodate every need. Every coupler on the Kadee web site includes a diagram with the exact dimensions of the coupler including exact height. Sometimes the design of the car itself necessitates the use of offset couplers.
Yeah, the original post is somewhat confusing.
For one thing, if the coupler already sits too low, won't the use of washers make it even lower?
I use washers on rare occasions to lower the height of the couplers, not raise them.
What the OP ought to do is set up a piece of flextrack, place an individual car on the test track and set down the coupler height gauge on the test track and visually observe the coupler height.
As you have indicated, the most unlikely cars to be at fault are RTR cars, Accurail cars, and other high quality cars.
We need to hear more from the OP.
E-L man tom Also what I have encountered is that one end is right and the other end is either too low or too high, with the same number of washers on each end.
Also what I have encountered is that one end is right and the other end is either too low or too high, with the same number of washers on each end.
I have over 100 freight cars and more than 3 dozen passenger cars.
Out of the box, I have never experienced a car with different coupler heights on either end of a car. They are either both correct, or both too high, or both too low.
When the OP says that the coupler heights on either end of the same car are different heights "with the same number of washers on each end", is that also true before the washers were put on the car? That's the time to check, not after messing around with washers and then checking.
A number of posters have raised some interesting questions. I'll try to address them as things I've also run into.
cowman Is your gauge permanently mounted on the test track or do you put it away as I do (at the moment)? If you take it off the track, is something getting under the gauge just enough to change it's height? Is there a piece of flash caught in one of the rail grooves of the gauge? Another thing might be something under the coupler on the gauge. That's all I can think of at the moment. Good luck,
Is your gauge permanently mounted on the test track or do you put it away as I do (at the moment)? If you take it off the track, is something getting under the gauge just enough to change it's height? Is there a piece of flash caught in one of the rail grooves of the gauge? Another thing might be something under the coupler on the gauge.
I made a fixture for my Kadee coupler height gauge.
dehusman richhotrain: I wonder if the OP know you can bend the trip pin up or down to get clearance? He isn't adjusting the trip pin height by shimming the whole car is he?
richhotrain:
Tom, do yourself a favor and buy a set of the Kadee coupler pliers. They work!
And, finally, let me add something I've run into. This mostly applies to older Athearn BB kits. Almost without exception, I found that the Kadee centering springs (see picture) had to have the tabs trimmed so they would fit in the Athearn coupler pocket. If not, the cover wouldn't fit snugly, and allow the coupler to sag. I hope this helps.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
At one time or another, I think that I have used that Kadee tool to bend every trip pin on every coupler that I own.
LOL.
Those trip pins in their original position will do just that - - - trip up your rolling stock and bring your engines to a halt.
Of course, it helps to have bullet proof track work - - - which I don't.
I'm probably spoiled by the number of hoppers I have - every one of my Athearn, kit or RTR hoppers, and all my my Stewarts, have worked with #5's, no adjustment (other than the trip pin) required. I picked up a pair of AThearn RTR mill gons and I needed to use some offset Kadee couplers for them, #5's were half a head too low. My Branchline kits, both Yardmaster and Blueprint, are all dead on with a #5. My Accurail kits, hoppers and box cars, are also all dead on. I have a coupel of Athearn box cars, they needed a red washer under each truck.
The trick seems to be, based on the way the couplers are made, is that if the difference in height is half the coupler head height, either too high or too low, that's when you need to use one of the offset shank couplers. If you try to use the washers to build up half a head height difference, the car will be wobbly and ride too high at best.
The easiest solution to Athearn clip-on covers is to use the #48 whisker coupelrs instead of the #5. So much easier to manage - you aren't trying to hold 4 things at once putting it together. My trick for clippign the covers on is to slightly bend them together for more 'springyness' and once they are in place, I use a set of fine needlenose pliers to gently grab at the very tip below where it is supposed to clip over the lip on the underframe and squeeze it over. None fo the ones I've done that too has fallen off as they have a tendency to do, even when coupled rather roughly.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
[quote user="Stevert"]
I am using Kadee couplers (No. 5's). I am even replacing any other brand (Accumate, McHenry, etc) with the Kadees.
The problem here is not the trip pin; I can and know that that adjustment can be made and I have done so. I do, however experience some droop, espceially with the blue box and the ConCor cars, even when the box cover "smaps" into place - - very frustrating.
The Athearn BlueBox cars always need a washer under each truck to bring the standard Kadee #5 up to proper height. If the Kadee gladhand is low enough to catch on track work, it is a good bet the coupler is low too. Kadee quality is very consistent, if the coupler head is at the proper height, the gladhand will clear the track work. If you have to bend the gladhand, you have a low flying coupler.
For washers I get #6 flat washers at the hardware store. Much cheaper than the Kadee washers.
I have never encountered a high coupler. Don't say it cannot happen, but I never met one.
With Kadee's it is worth checking the "want-fits-what" list on the Kadee website. Although you can warp a #5 into anything with enough filing and shimming and hacking, it's easier to use the recommended Kadee from the list.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
E-L man tom The problem here is not the trip pin; I can and know that that adjustment can be made and I have done so. I do, however experience some droop, espceially with the blue box and the ConCor cars, even when the box cover "smaps" into place - - very frustrating.
Ahh,a better picture of the problem.
Again it sounds to me like the frame or weight is warp and forcing the coupler to droop.This was one of the problems with BB cars.
After straightening the frame on one end of the yellow boxcar here's the end result.
If this situation really could use a remedy provided by a spacer of some kind, be it washer or whatever, even bits of flat styrene stock can be used, trimmed to fit and bored to slip over the pivot for the coupler shank. And those can be stacked, or moved to the other side of the coupler shank as appropriate. But, even one spacer can result in a marked improvement if it forces the coupler head up even 1/16".
As for the stepped shank couplers, I actually resorted to a couple for my Bachmann Spectrum heavyweights, which are notorious for having terrible couplers and draft gear.
-Crandell
Rich,
Sounds like you put the washers in the coupler box to lower the coupler.
Putting the washers between the truck and the car body raises thethe whole car, thus the coupler. That is as long as the coupler is body mounted. Not sure how one would adjust a truck mounted.
Hae fun,
cowman Rich, Sounds like you put the washers in the coupler box to lower the coupler. Putting the washers between the truck and the car body raises thethe whole car, thus the coupler. That is as long as the coupler is body mounted. Not sure how one would adjust a truck mounted. Hae fun,
cowman,
Thank you for that post. Ever since I wrote my post, I kept wondering if I was saying it backwards. I went to the driving range to work on my woeful golf game, came home and cut the lawn, then checked my emails, all of the time thinking about my post and wondering who was saying what wrong.
Yep, I put the washers in the coupler box. But, as I said before, my first choice is an offset coupler, not a washer.
I agree with Brakie. With that many problems I would guess the bottom frame is not fitting nicely into the body shell and is bending down on the ends for some reason. I can only speak for the Athearn and Accurail cars, I don't believe I have any ConCor. In 40 years and thousands of examples I've not seen the trouble you speak of. I have found that an Athearn blue box generally needs 1 red (0.015") Kadee washer per bolster. The exception is the ice reefers that generally need two black (0.010") Kadee washers. The one huge problem with Athearn cars are the tanks. The tank cars do not have the metal snap on boxes and the plastic "cover" will eventually sag. To solve that I wrap the end of the coupler box with some thin wire.
I have found that some of the Athearn BB cars underframes can cause the couplers to droop because the underframe is flexible . The solution that I have found is to epoxy the coupler box to to the underfloor weight or plastic cement the the coupler box where it meets the bottom of the end of the car.this keeps the coupler box straight and level .
You know what I find odd, that people here have number 5's in Blue Box Cars that are the correct height with no washers. What I have found is 90% of my BB cars one end height might work with a #5 and the other end will sit to low. Most of the time I use a raised shank coupler to correct the height.
Ken
I hate Rust
Ken,I have never found the need to use a high or low shank coupler on any of my BB cars since 90% of the time the frame or weight was warp and in some odd cases the floor was badly warp.
I simply straighten the offending piece and that solved the problem..
One more thing I will share is my last BB covered hopper kit the bottom was warp! I had to straighten the floor before the couplers would match the KD coupler height gauge.