Page 5. Welcome, Becky.
This hobby is predominantly male, but who cares. I have met many great modelers who I consider my friends. MRing folks tend to share their knowledge freely.
Yes, my husband is involved in modeling with me. And yes, he was willing to make some serious changes to our layout after I attended an operating session without him.
Sue
Anything is possible if you do not know what you are talking about.
hcc25rl Penny T. - Do the PCC cars still run in Shaker Heights?? Jimmy
Penny T. - Do the PCC cars still run in Shaker Heights??
Jimmy
I wish! No, I think it's all Tokyu equipment now. Most of the cars were sold to Toronto in the 80's, then to Milan Italy more recently. However, I've been hearing rumors that someone here is buying them back from the Italians for restoration and an eventual museum. Since Trolleyville USA stopped operations, those cars had been idle. But there is the new Northern Ohio Traction Museum and that may be where the PCC's will be headed. It's all a little vague right now.
I'm sure most of you know this, but south of Cleveland in Sugarcreek Ohio Jerry Jacobsen has been building a new facility all summer long. They finished the turntable over the winter months and the roundhouse has been going up to the point that it's almost completed. Last time I checked they were working on the roof. The backshop is being built simultaneously and eventually there will be a car barn and museum. Since Jerry sold the Ohio Central to Genesee and Wyoming in 2008 there won't be any excursions like the OC used to do. But they will work with clubs to plan and operate excursions of their own. Most of the equipment has been tranferred over to their yard including the Berk. Check out the age of steam roundhouse site for more info.
Becky
Trains, trains, wonderful trains. The more you get, the more you toot!
ROUTE ROCK!
It is ironic that women are such a small percentage of the model railroading community when you consider who's doing most of the assembly in these two videos ( you may have to brush up on your German for the second one). It isn't for lack of manual dexterity, as women are generally preferred for jobs like this or fine electronics.
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/941561
http://www.roco.cc/index.php?id=406
Whether it's nature, nurture, or a combination of the two we do tend to gravitate towards gender-specific interests. There are the exceptions that prove the rule, of course. I listen to the amateur bands, and there is a female amateur radio operator here in New Jersey that I hear regularly who shares the hobby with her husband. Her other hobby is even more atypical: drag racing!
Oh, and welcome to the forum, Becky!
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
While it is a bit outdated to imply that women might be happier at the local malls, I can see why they did it.
In advertising you have to get your point accross in the quickest way possible. While the railroaders are hooked by the first sentence, "Train show...at....when..." and that's all we need to know, (Bet I got your attention with the words "train show"!) the person they hope will go along with them may not be. So you have to spell out in large friendly letters no farther than half way down the page exactly what's in it for them. If you tout the area attractions it's often a lot easier for participant A, the railroader, to sell the excursion to participant B: the disinterrested party. You have to sell togetherness and family unity, companionship and sharing each other's lives. That way you can hope for not only a greater turnout, but also a happier one.
In the greater analysis women aren't going to get men into the hair salons any easier than men are going to get women into the backshop. There has to be an interest on the part of participant B in the first place, and sad to say gender lines DO exist.
I'm an exception to the rule because I'm interrested in a lot of things that women traditionally aren't.
Back in June I went to an open house of the Midwest Railway Preservation Society down on West 3rd Street in the Cleveland flats. The site consists of a backshop, car repair shop and what's left of the old B & O roundhouse in the middle of an active CSX yard. Inside the roundhouse resides a steam locomotive that's been an enigma to me since 1976, GTW Mikado 4070. I rode behind that engine when I was 6 years old with mom, dad, brother and a plethora of aunts and uncles. I've been chasing after that locomotive since it mysteriously dissappeared from public view around 1982. I'd go to train shows and see things like the headlight or the bell from the engine but could never get much info on where the engine was or what exactly it's status was. Often because there was nobody at the table, but also because nobody would tell me anything of value to me. Is that a gender issue? Maybe. How can you tell for sure?
Enter the internet. Going to the shows to try to get info is now irrelevant. I found out about the open houses at the MRPS by googling "GTW 4070". I was looking for photos because for years all I had was one postcard from that 1976 excursion down to Hale Farm and back. All I'd seen since 76 was a front end view, never a broadside. With the net, I can search photo galleries and learn things (and join forums) and never worry about gender issues. The internet has leveled the playing field in ways we're only starting to realize. I don't have to feel uncomfortable at train shows or wonder if I'm being rude when I try to get straight answers to my questions. There IS, still, an underlying belief that women don't know about these things. I recognize that that's just an unfair generalization, but sad to say that's how I've felt sometimes. With the net, I don't ever have to see anybody face to face. I can post my questions and comments and go on with life as usual feeling happy that I accomplished what I set out to do.
So, the net has reshuffled the deck. While it is sad that it's destroying many of the old ways of doing things, we have to embrace the simple, basic, idea that change is the only constant in the universe. All that ever matters is this moment, right here right now. Model railroading allows us the ability to recreate those moments we remember so fondly through a series of vignettes. We can model the special trains we rode or wish we could have. We can build the towns as we would have liked them to be or model in graphic realism the urban dirt and blight that we really saw. And, we can face our fears. In the 70's I remember taking a river excursion and being scared to death by the sight of a half sunken ship in the oxbow of the Cuyahoga river. But you know what? When I rebuild my layout I'm going to include that scary old side-wheeler in all it's decrepitude! Whatever makes the strongest impression, is what will influence your character in the end. Because my parents took me on a steam excursion in the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, I wanted to know about trains. Because they took me to Puerto Rico and St. Thomas the next year, I started liking airplanes and flying. Trips to space museums, nautical museums and Disney World followed and piqued my interrest every time. The desire to learn is never wrong. Gender is irrelevant.
Meanwhile, back at the roundhouse. I still haven't seen engine 4070! It's shuttered tight because the roof started caving-in a few years ago and despite the fact that they've started rebuilding the roof, the city won't give them a permit to let visitors see this magnificent machine. I've gotten close though! Just the other side of a plywood door! In the mean time, I satisfied my curiousities by exploring old Pullmans, coaches and cabooses and filled up a few memory cards with photos. I bought a DVD about the museum and at least got to see on my TV what's on the other side of that door! I picked up postcards, patches and pins and was asked to join the society. Maybe I will, but being handicapped makes it difficult. See, what I want most to do is get in there and rip off the old parts and rebuild that machine to operating condition. I want someone to show me how to weld, grind and polish the steel and really feel like I've been a part of that machines history. But all those things are a bit difficult to do from a wheelchair.
Next summer I'll return to that wonderful, dusty, dirty place and maybe, just maybe I'll get to see if the engine is truly as gigantic as it seemed to 6 year old eyes! And I'll probably be going with my mom who shockingly had a wonderful time back in June! She would be the classic archetype of participant B, the disinterrested party. Yet she gleefully climbed on and off railroad equipment in the rain and even asked questions after we left!
All you have to do is leave an impression.
We used to have a man and his wife, or was it a woman and her husband.. as members in our modular club. Both are great people but moved on to other interests, much to the clubs regret. We miss them both but especially her, she has such a great personality and was just a lot of fun to be around. She really didn't know a Challenger from a Consolidation, but you know what.... it didn't matter to us one little bit.
I've always been proud that the club doesn't pay any attention to race, gender or religion. If you like trains, you're welcome.
Jarrell
HaroldA Once again I appreciate all the great comments about this topic. As I was thinking about this I was looking around in the NMRA web site and found a region that is hosting a convention in the near future. On the update page for the event there is this comment about a "women's program" - "It's a tricky thing - wives do not attend because there is nothing for them to do and not enough wives attend to make scheduling something special worth the effort. Well, at (region name) we have that somewhat solved, because our hotel is 'attached' to a very nice shopping mall." It goes on to say about not having to walk outdoors to get to the mall, it mentions discounts, quaint shops, and notes that wives can go on layout tours for free. Now this sends a number of messages and my first thought was, which one of the 'old boys' wrote that first part of the update. My other thought was that it probably could have been worded differently and be made to say that some special arrangements had been made for spouses. And finally, what about the male spouse of a female modeler??? That aside, and considering many of your comments, the update somewhat speaks to our discussion about encouraging women to participate in the hobby.
Once again I appreciate all the great comments about this topic.
As I was thinking about this I was looking around in the NMRA web site and found a region that is hosting a convention in the near future. On the update page for the event there is this comment about a "women's program" - "It's a tricky thing - wives do not attend because there is nothing for them to do and not enough wives attend to make scheduling something special worth the effort. Well, at (region name) we have that somewhat solved, because our hotel is 'attached' to a very nice shopping mall."
It goes on to say about not having to walk outdoors to get to the mall, it mentions discounts, quaint shops, and notes that wives can go on layout tours for free.
Now this sends a number of messages and my first thought was, which one of the 'old boys' wrote that first part of the update. My other thought was that it probably could have been worded differently and be made to say that some special arrangements had been made for spouses. And finally, what about the male spouse of a female modeler??? That aside, and considering many of your comments, the update somewhat speaks to our discussion about encouraging women to participate in the hobby.
Frankly, I really would not enjoy anything that is or could become a hen party with the usually cackling and giggling that occur during them. I don't feel comfortable at them and I doubht any of would.
That said, women don't feel comfortable at male-dominated gatherings and it isn't just because we tend to pass air or tell offcolor jokes or jokes involving various bodily functions. GOd made men and women to be different so as to complement one another rather than to compete with one another. So to expect them to like what we like and us to like what they like isn't reasonable.
However I have seen women at train shows and other places and you'll often hear phrases like "Look at the cute choo-choos." Those phrases wil usually come from women who seem to have this belief that unlike them we men tend to play with toys while they have to deal with adulthood and the responsibilities that entails. I've even heard a woman say "Oh look at all the overgrown boys still playing wirth their toys." I suppose that idea comes from them because they are either jealous that we can get away with it and they would love to do it too.
BTW, my wife recently brought an old photo to my attention. In it she was about 5 years old and she was playing with a train set. That must have been in the mid 1950s but I don't recognize the train set. It looks bigger than HO though I doubt if it was a Lionel.
My wife does take an interest in my N-Scale layout as she often says she would to help some of the buildings I have in my stash but she has never been eager to do anything when I have asked her.
Irv
If too many women joined in the hobby, men might have trouble keeping their minds and eyes on their trains and have full scale derail accidents...more so than happen now!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
G Paine If this thread is considered a non-scientific survey, there are no female model railroaders left out there. Here we are on page 3 with 31 responses and 171 views and all the respondees are male. Is all this testosterone scaring the women away??
If this thread is considered a non-scientific survey, there are no female model railroaders left out there. Here we are on page 3 with 31 responses and 171 views and all the respondees are male. Is all this testosterone scaring the women away??
I doubt its the testosterone that is scaring them. It's just that they aren't interested in this group of boys who never really grew up.
Yeah the number the low in my end too. One of the LHS workers is a lady, does/did a lot of custom work. You know, for guys like Tom Hoback...
T the club, we have a Mom who became a amember so her son could ride as family. But she's generally more into than Dad, and though she don't run only lightly models, she'd stick we;re sure, even if son didn't. On the other hand, I can't get Mom to come with me, she diesn't want to muss up the guys flow. She's welcome, and also a bit of a Tomboy stil (one of first mechanics in our county, and I was alive at that time, so not long ago)
it's just as sad at the museum too, I mnaged to wrangle in a girl who's now a junior coach attendent with ITM, also a cheerleader (junior with an NFL team as well) and incredibly shy. Then we have a lady as secratery, one as ringleader, a coach attendent, and one in the shop, and thas all that are commonly around. railroading is just full of old male biddies.
-Morgan
Wow, thanks for the pre-war info and the leads, I will definelty follow up on them.
Have fun with your trains
Hiya!
I haven't quite figured out how or where I can post pictures here yet. I don't have a website so imbedding html in my responses isn't yet possible for me. However I'm going to take a serious look at Flikr and photo bucket to see what's involved. I used to have a free page at AOL hometown, but aol stopped providing that service.
The Thai layout, which I call the Chon Buri Central, is a cross between scale scenic techniques and toy accoutrements. I used silk flower picks to make flowering trees and "real water" for the river. But I also have paper model palm trees along side lichen bushes and tumble-polished pebbles. I spend a lot of time designing and building paper models and for this layout I designed a wat and a train station. (Most recently I downloaded, enlarged and built a model of Abraham Lincoln's Sprinfield IL house for my Standard Gauge/G-scale layout.) So since the scenery is a mix, I can run pretty much anything from pre-war clockwork to Atlas O Trainman. Similarly, all types of trains look good on the 1950's Plasticville version of this same layout. The mountain and thai stuff get packed away and the P-ville town is done directly on the green luan base.
Have you read the responses I gave on the subject of making pre-war trees over on the CTT side? Over the past couple of days I've been experimenting with Life-Like green sawdust "Grass" to reproduce the kinds of trees and shrubs Lionel installed on their scenic plots, parks and scenic railways back in the 20's and 30's. Basically the Oak or Maple trees I'm making are just pieces of 108 pound sisal rope wrapped in masking tape and flocked with the green sawdust. The hedges are rectangles of sponge also flocked with sawdust. So far I've made 3 complete trees, 4 hedgerows and a small scenic plot which I think are reasonable representations of 1920's style scenicing. I have a 4th tree under way and a "park" base for my MTH vibrating flag pole. That one will be a simple round piece of foamcore extending about an inch out from the large base of the flag pole. (About 15 1/2cm around) It will have 4 small paths leading to the steps and 4 curved hedges in the spaces between. This should make it look more like a pre-war #927 ornimental flag plot and less like a modern day plastic accessory. With 50 feet of sisal rope and 3/4 of a pound of sawdust still on hand I expect to be able to make a lot of trees!
Back in the mid 90's, a hobby shop owner presented me with a box of rust. Underneath all that rust was a 1917 Lionel Standard Gauge train, set #37. The #33 electric profile loco had no motor, frame or pilots. I restored the shell and installed a Marx motor into a frame I made of basswood. By using the Marx loco's geared wheel re-installed backwards, I was able to use M.O.W. repro standard gauge wheels and it ran well enough on the restored track. (It's since been replaced by a #8 as my loco of choice) The set also included a #112 Lake Shore gondola and a #117 caboose with no roof. I restored both of those and made a roof and cupola for the caboose out of aluminum. My plan all along had been to run these trains at Christmas under the tree. But they looked lonely running on an oval all by themselves.
So, using the 2 sources I had on hand at that time, Ron Hollander's "All Aboard" and a 1989 issue of CTT featuring Chuck Brasher's Standard Gauge layout, I set about building some structures. I decided to use posterboard because it was cheap, but more importantly it takes paint well. (Spray paint on posterboard resembles tinplate) Using those few photos, diagrams and drawings, I built a #124 station, Ives water tower, a #184 bungalow and a #191 villa. All made of posterboard and all drawn by hand. I populated the town with ceramic figures, metal benches and 8 extremely simple trees. (Those trees were styrofoam cones painted green mounted on adding machine rolls painted glossy brown and held together with 3" nails through a round aluminum base!) In the years after building those first 4 structures, I built representations of the Lionel #438 switch tower, #437 interlocking tower, a #189 villa, #155 freight shed, #436 power station and, most recently, a #114 station which I use as a city hall. A farm house, #440 signal bridge (with 35mm film canisters for lights), #300 Hellgate Bridge and a large station platform of my own design have come and gone. (The Hellgate bridge got smushed and the signal bridge has been replaced with an Aristo-craft G-scale version.)
Yesterday I "upgraded" those trees by flocking them with the green sawdust, repainted the "trunks" with the same acrylic nutmeg brown I'm using on the rope trees and re-cut the bases from round to more irregular shapes. I've also added a Playmobil medieval house, a Marx civil war mansion and paper models of a Carlisle and Finch freight station (which I use as a C&F factory) and the Disneyland Main Street Station which itself is over 3 1/2 feet long! All buildings have tissue paper windows and are lighted. A modest collection of MTH repro lamps and accessories provide most of the action, but I also have an original #45N gateman. The power, once provided by a 90 watt #1044, now comes from a powerhouse I made using 2 expansion floors from a Playmobil Victorian Mansion with a trussed roof scratchbuilt from styrene and a large factory chimney made from PVC pipe and fittings. On the front I installed wooden letters to spell out "Lionel Trains" and painted the "check-L" logo on a round piece of wood and placed it between the 2 words. Inside, I installed a 60 watt type A, a 100 watt type T, a 150 watt type K and an Aristo-Craft transformer. There's also an air whistle hiding under the floor of the 2nd story and 3 #95 rheostats for controlling the trains and lighting levels. On one end of the structure I have a stairway and on the other is the chimey and a series of terminal posts and blocks for wiring the layouts. I use wiring pigtails with fork connections which I pre-cut to various lengths so I can rearrange the buildings each year. Eventually I'd like to have a permanent display, but for the time being I build everything in modular form so I can move them around at will. (Although that powerhouse is pretty heavy!)
Over the years I've learned that the Scenic Railways (complete display layouts that Lionel made in the 20's) were largely built from steel. But they also used pressed felt to make hills, mountains and tunnels. Not the thin little felt like you find in craft stores, but heavy grade felt like the kind they use for roofing. This was dipped in "fish glue" as it was called and then hand painted to look like mountains. I haven't found out what exactly that "fish glue" was made of, but I know they included a powdered glue in scenery making kits of the same era. I imagine a modern alphatic resin like Elmer's Glue-All would do the trick, but I'd also paper mache' over modern-era felt for a smoother painting surface. Modern Life-Like brand Mountain Paper would also be a good starting point for pre-war-esque mountain ranges. Tunnel portals were steel and the tunnel liners were steel or brass. Roads were usually just cream colored paint done directly on the steel, but on scenic plots the walkways leading to the villas were pieces of paper glued to the wood bases while large areas of "road" like on the #920 scenic park were again just painted on. Vegetation was made of painted and flocked sponges, lichen or sisal twine. Grasses were green sawdust and "dirt" was natural-colored sawdust, which I assume came from sawmills rather than bought by Lionel as a model rr product. Lionel also used hand-painted pressed-board to make background mountains and blue sky backdrops.
So, that's what I've learned about pre-war techniques. They seem to have remained the industry standard until builders like Allen, Armstrong and Ellison came along and changed how we look at layout building in general.
My 3 biggest sources for this info are David Doyle's "Standard Catalog of Lionel Trains 1900-1942", Roger Carp's "Classic Lionel Display Layouts You Can Build" and the pictures and descriptions of items found on Ebay. (Once, I found a complete set of photos of an American Flyer Union Station, the one made from silk screened cardboard, on Ebay which I saved to my photo folder!) And of course, there are the articles and photos in CTT!
The Thai layout sound interesting, have you any pics? I just started a small layout based on pre-war building practices for collecting Marx Litho tinplate so am interested to see how other approach tinplate layout building.
Hello boy-o's!
If you like trains, you like trains! Gender irrelevant. Remember how badly the "Lady Lionel" set sold? Girls didn't want pink locomotives back then and we still don't.
Now, I know I'm in a minority here all the way around since I think about trains 24/7, have layouts and boxes of locos and cars all over the house, and, I'm a girl. But we are here. I think women in the hobby just tend to prioritize differently than the men do. That's all.
My philosophy toward railroading is to create specific sets and layouts that work toward a central theme.
For example, I've spent some time in a small city south and east of Bangkok Thailand. So I constructed a 4 by 6 foot floor layout in my bedroom that's Thai themed. It has an oval of O-31 MTH RealTrax on the inside and a simple oval of American Flyer S-gauge track on the outside. In the center of the O-31 loop, I built a removable "mountain" out of small boxes and crumpled up newspapers. I covered the entire assembly with masking tape then glued Life-Like mountain paper on top of that. This created a lightweight platform for a paper model of a Thai Wat (Buddhist Temple) and a small brass sculpture of Buddha that I purchased in Thailand. It has a small river that flows down the hillside into a pool and wide open areas for elephants to roam. I built steps up to the wat, and I populate the setting with O-gauge tourists and temple visitors. Around the layout, I've added some plasticville buildings like the hospital, apartment building and the K-Line 7-11 (there are tons of them in Thailand!). I also have 3 pull-back Tuk-Tuk's (3 wheel taxis) that I brought back with me and they're posted at grade crossings and around the town. Since I'm operating non or pseudo-scale O and S gauge, the giant Tuk-Tuk's fit with the toylike atmosphere of the whole layout.
In the winter months, the Thai layout gives way to a more traditional post-war style Plasticville layout around it's own 6 foot tree which is decorated with traditional 50's ornamentation. (The tracks stay the same) Silmultaneously in the living room, I construct a G-Scale and Standard Gauge layout around the larger 7 1/2 foot tree. Sadly though those layouts only get about 2 1/2 months of life out of each year. So in the basement I built a 15 by 9 U-shaped O27 layout in the late 90's. It's fallen into disrepair over the last 5 years, but I've been working for about 16 months now on plans to upgrade it to a scale-oriented layout. Not a specific railroad, but a simplified representation based on my impressions of what the Cleveland flats looked like in the 1970's. This version will require me to build many bridges of many types from scratch and an entire city skyline of building flats as well. That way I can operate my pre-war and toy trains on my seasonal temporary layouts, and still have a scale-oriented 3-rail (I know, it's a misnomer) layout with heavily weathered trains running on wide radius curves.
So, by creating a series of vignettes and tableau, I create a theater of the rail in different rooms and at different seasons. I honor my Thai friends on those warm summer nights with long passenger trains delivering pilgrims to the local temple, I can highball the Polar Express through Plasticville on Christmas eve, make visitors feel like it's the 1930's with pre-war Standard Gauge on Christmas day and, eventually, I'll be running steam excursions past the local skyscrapers in the Cuyahoga valley on my soon to be built "Cuyahoga Valley and Cleveland Union Terminal Railroad", which will also feature an elevated line of On30.
As for the grit and grime end of the hobby, I'll start by saying I'm poor! So one of my greatest thrills is to acquire a rusty crusty piece of pre-war tinplate and restore it to like-new condition. 90% of the work I do involves my Dremel tool and a carbon steel polishing wheel. I enjoy having dirt under my nails and it's always fun to pick steel filaments out of your flesh! lol I dig in, grind away the old lead-based paints and let the dust fly! When I'm finished stripping, sanding, priming, painting and polishing, you'd be hard pressed to tell one of my paint jobs from a 1930's original. ;) Eventually I'm going to learn how to weld and solder metals!
I tour roundhouses and go to train shows. Though not as many as I used to since I started having mobility issues. But even that can't effect my railroad mania! :) Instead of hitting the local VFW, UAW or NMRA shows at the fairgrounds, I visit the worl'd largest daily train meet on Ebay an average of 362 days a year! (I'm just guessing but I know I miss at least 2 or 3 days a year! :) And I often end up bidding against other women for those trains!)
So, we're here, it's just that many women interrested in trains don't or can't go at it as hardcore as I do!
NSdreamer Chapter 1 of Volume 2 of the Dream Plan Build Video series can answer that question. Which episode are you on?
Chapter 1 of Volume 2 of the Dream Plan Build Video series can answer that question. Which episode are you on?
I got 1 and 3 but never got 2.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
I recall a time in when it was indeed a good ol' boy's club because you never seen a real women in a men's domain..
Then came those dang gum ladies that wanted to join in on the fun and it was finny the good ol' boys domain where we could act like real barbarians by doing manly things like burping,passing bad air,telling dirty jokes,cussing etc,etc..
Yup,our good ol' boy's domain became a domain of ladies and gentlemen-or is that gentle persons?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
No, it is not!
But yes, it is a predominantly male hobby.
Over the years, MR has published a number of features about layouts build by women and the work shown was spectacular. I remeber a small feature about a lady group of modelers, operating a On3 layout- just can´t remember, in which issue that was.
It appears to me that women have often a much better eye and hand, when it comes to creating scenery and details. Maybe one of the reasons, why Miniatur Wunderland has quite a number of lady modelers on board.
Motley How many of us men do you see hanging out getting our nails and makeup done, or at the mall shopping for cloths. You know what I mean, women have their own intersts and we have ours. I do however, see some women at my LHS, but they are usually with their husbands. Men are from Mars, and Women are from Venus.
How many of us men do you see hanging out getting our nails and makeup done, or at the mall shopping for cloths. You know what I mean, women have their own intersts and we have ours.
I do however, see some women at my LHS, but they are usually with their husbands.
Men are from Mars, and Women are from Venus.
For the most part modelrailroading tends to be a sausage fest. I don't think it's completely the whole Old Boys Club mentality of a lot of shops and clubs (although that does play a part) as much as it is some things just don't interest women that much. Then again my mom actually liked watching football (and not just because of the sweaty guys in tight pants) and my girlfriend plays ice hockey.
This is a "largely" male hobby. That is to say that there are females who model, and supportive wives who may help and work with their husbands. Other females will largely ignore trains all together.
Quilting and knitting and crocheting are "largely" female hobbies. There are a few men who participate, and many supportive husbands who help out by holding skeins of yarn to rolled into a ball, for instance. Other men will largely ignore sewing and knitting altogether.
Often fathers look for "bonding time" with sons, and MRRing just happens to be available. Building layouts, building kits, etc.
Often fathers will also build form a kit or scratch a doll house for a daughter to have quality time with her. DXecorating with miniature wallpaper or painting the interiors.
Often mothers will teach a son how to cook so he won't at least starve and to spend "quality time" with him.
Often mothers will teach daughters to cook so they can catch a good man by way of his stomach and to spen "quality time" with them.
A hobby is a hobby, and not necessarily gender specific. But men will generally go gaga over a piece of machinery such as a loco, and women will generally go gaga over the latest quilting pattern on the market. Though Women may go gaga over a piece of machinery- a $6,000.00-$8,000.00 computer programable sewing and embroidery sewing machine!
It all can fall under the theory of "relativity"---if it's relatively relevant to the parties involved.. it is relatively important to them, especially amongst relatives.
mobilman44 Hi! While the mags/media seem to go out of their way to point out a woman that is in the hobby, I doubt that they are even close to one percent of the total MRs. Now I am not talking about our wives or girlfriends that paint figures or backdrops or help with scenery, etc., I am talking about those that actually build a layout or string of cars from the ground up. I started playing with trains in the mid '50s. Lionel was at its peak and issued a "girl's train" with pastel cars and locos, in their attempt to bring females into the fold. It was the Edsel of its time, although those sets went on to be worth big bucks as collectors items. In the "old days", trains and train layouts were for boys/men. Girls/women had their own thing and it was considered weird if there was a crossover. Today, this line is not as well defined, but it is still there. My wife (#2) is the perfect MR wife IN MY OPINION of course. She has painted figures for me, offered constructive suggestions, never questions my spending or time spent with the hobby, goes on train related trips (and seems to enjoy them), and really seems to enjoy and appreciate my layout building efforts. She has her own hobbies (computer graphics), and I feel the same about her stuff as she does mine.
Hi!
While the mags/media seem to go out of their way to point out a woman that is in the hobby, I doubt that they are even close to one percent of the total MRs. Now I am not talking about our wives or girlfriends that paint figures or backdrops or help with scenery, etc., I am talking about those that actually build a layout or string of cars from the ground up.
I started playing with trains in the mid '50s. Lionel was at its peak and issued a "girl's train" with pastel cars and locos, in their attempt to bring females into the fold. It was the Edsel of its time, although those sets went on to be worth big bucks as collectors items.
In the "old days", trains and train layouts were for boys/men. Girls/women had their own thing and it was considered weird if there was a crossover. Today, this line is not as well defined, but it is still there.
My wife (#2) is the perfect MR wife IN MY OPINION of course. She has painted figures for me, offered constructive suggestions, never questions my spending or time spent with the hobby, goes on train related trips (and seems to enjoy them), and really seems to enjoy and appreciate my layout building efforts. She has her own hobbies (computer graphics), and I feel the same about her stuff as she does mine.
It is interesting you mentioned the Girls Lionel Set. I have seen these at train shows and they go rather quickly.
Oddly enough, in the past some toys that were marketed towards both boys and girls failed. They didn't gain much appeal. When my sister was growing up, she would rather play with hot wheels, slot cars, and my train set when she was about 10. Some girls are more "Tom Boyish" than others.
I have seen several women purchase items at train shows. Whether they were getting them for their significant others or for themselves is hard to determine, but they showed an interest.
Will
CNJ831 HaroldA: While I am thinking about it - are there any stats somewhere about the age breakdown of the current modelers? I don't recall seeing anything anywhere and maybe it would be an interesting study for the NMRA to survey its 19,000+ members as maybe a means of determining the health of the hobby. Once again, I appreciate the discussion, Harold - Better than a decade ago the NMRA did do a massive survey of its membership, the results being published in multiple sections in the association's magazine. IIRC, the age of the "typical" NMRA member, at that time (mid 1990's), was 56 and up considerably over the previous decade. In the early 2000's I had a conversation with one of my region's NMRA officials on this topic and was inform that a regional survey of a couple of thousand members conducted around the year 2000 had, at that point, produced an average age of 61! This latter figure would agree very well with today's anticipated figure for hobbyists in general if one extrapolates from MR's decades of published readers' survey age statistics, which indicated a dramatic and progressive increase in the mean age of hobbyists since the mid 1970's. Publishing of MR's reader surveys ended abruptly in 1993 and I've always believed it was because of the implications of this very statistic. CNJ831
HaroldA: While I am thinking about it - are there any stats somewhere about the age breakdown of the current modelers? I don't recall seeing anything anywhere and maybe it would be an interesting study for the NMRA to survey its 19,000+ members as maybe a means of determining the health of the hobby. Once again, I appreciate the discussion,
While I am thinking about it - are there any stats somewhere about the age breakdown of the current modelers? I don't recall seeing anything anywhere and maybe it would be an interesting study for the NMRA to survey its 19,000+ members as maybe a means of determining the health of the hobby.
Once again, I appreciate the discussion,
Harold - Better than a decade ago the NMRA did do a massive survey of its membership, the results being published in multiple sections in the association's magazine. IIRC, the age of the "typical" NMRA member, at that time (mid 1990's), was 56 and up considerably over the previous decade.
In the early 2000's I had a conversation with one of my region's NMRA officials on this topic and was inform that a regional survey of a couple of thousand members conducted around the year 2000 had, at that point, produced an average age of 61! This latter figure would agree very well with today's anticipated figure for hobbyists in general if one extrapolates from MR's decades of published readers' survey age statistics, which indicated a dramatic and progressive increase in the mean age of hobbyists since the mid 1970's. Publishing of MR's reader surveys ended abruptly in 1993 and I've always believed it was because of the implications of this very statistic.
CNJ831
Interesting to say the least and I would have tro agree. It would seem that the NMRA or MR would be interested in the data. I worked for an organization that took such surveys on a regular basis and used the information for a variety of reasons such as marketing, distribution and advertising.
HaroldA While I am thinking about it - are there any stats somewhere about the age breakdown of the current modelers? I don't recall seeing anything anywhere and maybe it would be an interesting study for the NMRA to survey its 19,000+ members as maybe a means of determining the health of the hobby. Once again, I appreciate the discussion,
In the early 2000's I had a conversation with one of my region's NMRA officials on this topic and was inform that a regional survey of a couple of thousand members conducted around the year 2000 had, at that point produced an average age of 61! This latter figure would agree very well with today's anticipated figure for hobbyists in general if one extrapolates from MR's decades of published readers' survey age statistics, which indicated a dramatic and progressive increase in the mean age of hobbyists since the mid 1970's. Publishing of MR's reader surveys ended abruptly in 1993 and I've always believed it was because of the implications of this very statistic.
HaroldA Bob - I am glad to see you make that statement since my other hobby is cooking and have been known to whip up a pretty mean meal. For the sake of the discussion, I would there are some areas like this one where the genders 'crossover.' But it seems lines get drawn - I don't know any men who sew or knit - and maybe model RR'ing is one of those areas.
Bob - I am glad to see you make that statement since my other hobby is cooking and have been known to whip up a pretty mean meal. For the sake of the discussion, I would there are some areas like this one where the genders 'crossover.' But it seems lines get drawn - I don't know any men who sew or knit - and maybe model RR'ing is one of those areas.
Actually, aside from the people on this site and others I frequent, I don't directly know anyone-- male or female-- who is a model railroader. Even my Uncle, who is largely responsible for getting me into the hobby, hasn't been a model railroader in years-- perhaps in his heart, but not active in any other way. I wish there were more model railroaders around, of either gender, it would be fun to have someone to pal around with sometimes.
John
HaroldA Ok - I know I am probably opening up a can of worms here, but are there are any statistics relating to the number of men/women in the hobby? Reason I asked in that I watched a portion of a Dream, Plan, Build video the other day and there was a line that went something like 'making a man feel like a boy and a boy feel like a man.' So I looked at a couple other videos and there wasn't a single featured layout built by a woman. So , I found the names of the NMRA Board of DIrectors and, at least by name, I didn't see any females. Also, I rarely see any women scouring the shelves of the LHS's I frequent and it seems that most people who post here are men. I know in years past I have read articles on how we socialize our kids by the way we dress them, the toys they receive, the sports they play - and I wonder if we socialize them through the hobby. Not that I think this is bad thing, but it did get me to wondering about the numbers and perhaps why we don't see more females involved in hobby - if that is a true statement. Any thoughts?
Ok - I know I am probably opening up a can of worms here, but are there are any statistics relating to the number of men/women in the hobby? Reason I asked in that I watched a portion of a Dream, Plan, Build video the other day and there was a line that went something like 'making a man feel like a boy and a boy feel like a man.' So I looked at a couple other videos and there wasn't a single featured layout built by a woman. So , I found the names of the NMRA Board of DIrectors and, at least by name, I didn't see any females. Also, I rarely see any women scouring the shelves of the LHS's I frequent and it seems that most people who post here are men.
I know in years past I have read articles on how we socialize our kids by the way we dress them, the toys they receive, the sports they play - and I wonder if we socialize them through the hobby.
Not that I think this is bad thing, but it did get me to wondering about the numbers and perhaps why we don't see more females involved in hobby - if that is a true statement. Any thoughts?
Well, they have a PINK GG-1, what else do they need !?!?!?!
superbe With this said I know a lot of men cook and some even really enjoy it. Nothing wrong with that. Bob
With this said I know a lot of men cook and some even really enjoy it. Nothing wrong with that.
Bob
As has been said there is a distinct difference in male and female predisposition to follow different persuits.
Most of the female participation in mring seems to be with the husband or s/o which makes me wonder how often conficts or lets just say arguments occur when one thinks something should be done one way and the other just doesn't like the idea
Another thought is how many of us modlers praticipate in or duplicate the hobbies of our wives? In my case none.
The only activity my wife has suggested is cooking. At that point I made a deal with her that she do the cooking and I'll do the clean up. This has worked well.
Since the few times I tried to do some cooking unless I did it her way it was wrong right down to peeling a potatoe. So she can stick with her persuits and I'll run the ralroad.
Sorry for digressing but that comes as you mature.
Happy Railroading
Don't Ever Give Up