CTValleyRR Medina1128: Do you have a picture of your coupler fixture. I'm interested in anything that would help putting those little knuckle springs in. Right now, I hold a coupler in one hand while using an X-acto knife to insert the springs. Needless to say, some of them shoot off into the netherworld, never to be seen again. It's a commercial Kadee product, which I screwed to a piece of scrap 1x2. http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/380-701 That one is for #4, #5, and #9 couplers. There's also a part number 702 for #711 and #714 couplers and a part number 703 for #7 and #8 couplers. Best $15 I ever spent. You still have to use an Xacto knife to install the springs, but at least, if you slip, you stab the fixture instead of your palm, and it's a darn sight easier when you have something holding the fixture in place.
Medina1128: Do you have a picture of your coupler fixture. I'm interested in anything that would help putting those little knuckle springs in. Right now, I hold a coupler in one hand while using an X-acto knife to insert the springs. Needless to say, some of them shoot off into the netherworld, never to be seen again.
Do you have a picture of your coupler fixture. I'm interested in anything that would help putting those little knuckle springs in. Right now, I hold a coupler in one hand while using an X-acto knife to insert the springs. Needless to say, some of them shoot off into the netherworld, never to be seen again.
It's a commercial Kadee product, which I screwed to a piece of scrap 1x2.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/380-701
That one is for #4, #5, and #9 couplers. There's also a part number 702 for #711 and #714 couplers and a part number 703 for #7 and #8 couplers.
Best $15 I ever spent. You still have to use an Xacto knife to install the springs, but at least, if you slip, you stab the fixture instead of your palm, and it's a darn sight easier when you have something holding the fixture in place.
Spend the two bucks on Kadee's Spring Pic, you'll lose a lot fewer springs and it makes installing them a lot easier. The Spring Pic has a little bump on the end that helps hold the spring.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Thank ya, thank ya!
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Medina1128 Do you have a picture of your coupler fixture. I'm interested in anything that would help putting those little knuckle springs in. Right now, I hold a coupler in one hand while using an X-acto knife to insert the springs. Needless to say, some of them shoot off into the netherworld, never to be seen again.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I too second the Kadee usage. Every locomotive and piece of rolling stock has Kadees installed. Kadee also has longer or shorter shank couplers. I use the longer shank couplers on my locomotives that have snow plows. They poke out quite a ways, but they are more reliable to allow a car or another loco coupled to the front.
Will
Most people standardize on knuckle couplers. New rolling stock now comes equipped with them, the older NMRA or horn hook coupler is only seen on older stuff. Kadee invented the knuckle coupler and still makes the best ones. Kadee's patents expired after many profitable years and several clone manufacturers appeared. The clone couplers mate with Kadees and I would consider a fleet equipped with a mixture of Kadee and clone couplers to be standardized. As others have noted, I will run clone couplers until they break.
I replace horn hooks and broken clone couplers with genuine Kadee's because the clones cost as much as Kadee's and why not get the best when the price is the same? Kadee makes dozens of different coupler styles to fit anything made in HO over the past 60 years. Most rolling stock will accept a #5 Kadee but there are odd ball cars out there. Locomotives are more variable and I always consult the Kadee "what fits what" list before buying replacements for locomotives. You want locomotive couplers to be electrically insulated to prevent short circuits when double heading.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I agree with the above Kadee endorsements. I've found that some cars will have pockets that will require overset or underset couplers so one size doesn't necessarily fit all. You also need to make sure that all of your couplers are the proper height. You can check this with an NMRA height guage or one of Kadee's coupler height guages.
CTValleyRR The answer to this question kind of depends on how you describe "standardization". All your couplers must be one type (hook and horn, knuckle, hook and hoop), but that's about it. And actually, you can create "transition cars" with one type of coupler at one end and another at the other end, although this severely limits your operating possibilities. Your best bet would be to stick with one kind of coupler -- generally the knuckle coupler, which is the most prototypical (although not the most reliable). Here again, though, you have a range of possibilities, including those that are designed to be remotely operable and those that are more or less scale sized (they're still not, but they're closer). Kadee products is generally recognized to produce both the widest variety of couplers as well as the best quality. Several other companies also make good ones (Bachmann, Walthers ProtoMAX, and McHenry to name a few). For all intents and purposes, these brands of knuckle coupler are interchangeable, and it is NOT necessecary to convert all your cars / locos to the same brand / style. With a little research it is possible to find a coupler which will fit any currently produced model (although the willingness / abiltiy to cut off the stock coupler box and install a new one will help). That said, you will probably find that you prefer one brand over another, for various reasons. My current fleet has a mix of McHenry's, Bachmann, Kadees, and Walthers ProtoMAX couplers, and it works just fine (with the caveat that I don't use remote coupler operation and automatic uncouplers). When a coupler begins to act up, I replace it, gradually eliminating the McHenrys and Bachmanns with Kadees and Walthers.
The answer to this question kind of depends on how you describe "standardization".
All your couplers must be one type (hook and horn, knuckle, hook and hoop), but that's about it. And actually, you can create "transition cars" with one type of coupler at one end and another at the other end, although this severely limits your operating possibilities.
Your best bet would be to stick with one kind of coupler -- generally the knuckle coupler, which is the most prototypical (although not the most reliable). Here again, though, you have a range of possibilities, including those that are designed to be remotely operable and those that are more or less scale sized (they're still not, but they're closer).
Kadee products is generally recognized to produce both the widest variety of couplers as well as the best quality. Several other companies also make good ones (Bachmann, Walthers ProtoMAX, and McHenry to name a few). For all intents and purposes, these brands of knuckle coupler are interchangeable, and it is NOT necessecary to convert all your cars / locos to the same brand / style. With a little research it is possible to find a coupler which will fit any currently produced model (although the willingness / abiltiy to cut off the stock coupler box and install a new one will help).
That said, you will probably find that you prefer one brand over another, for various reasons. My current fleet has a mix of McHenry's, Bachmann, Kadees, and Walthers ProtoMAX couplers, and it works just fine (with the caveat that I don't use remote coupler operation and automatic uncouplers). When a coupler begins to act up, I replace it, gradually eliminating the McHenrys and Bachmanns with Kadees and Walthers.
CTValleyRR The point about the coupler gauge is a good one. Everyone who actually wants to operate trains should have one and use it. FWIW, I also have a fixture that helps hold the pieces of Kadee couplers together while assembling them. It saves lots of aggravation when assembling them (yes, you can buy them pre-assembled, but I have a bunch that aren't and I can't see throwing them away.).
The point about the coupler gauge is a good one. Everyone who actually wants to operate trains should have one and use it. FWIW, I also have a fixture that helps hold the pieces of Kadee couplers together while assembling them. It saves lots of aggravation when assembling them (yes, you can buy them pre-assembled, but I have a bunch that aren't and I can't see throwing them away.).
G Paine I agree with Randy that Kadees are the way to go when you a change a coupler. I generally use whatever knuckle coupler comes with the car, then replace it with a Kadee if it breaks or does not play well with other cars. This is more of a cost consideration than anything else. As Randy said, the best coupler in the world is no good if it is not installed or adjusted properly. The Kadee height standard gage is an essential tool to keep things running well. In addition to coupler height the gage has a number of other functions: The gage has a flat pan under the coupler that measures the height of the coupler trip pin. A low trip pin can cause a derailment if it catches on something like a turnout rail. For installing a Kadee #5 coupler box, the back side of the gage measures the correct height of the surface where the coupler box will be mounted. Finaly, there is a round pin near the back of the height gage which measures the height of a Kadee uncoupling magnet. If the pit is above the top of the gage when placed over the magnet; the magnet is too high and will catch trip pins. I do not let a car or locomotive on my layout without running it by the Kadee standard gage.
I agree with Randy that Kadees are the way to go when you a change a coupler. I generally use whatever knuckle coupler comes with the car, then replace it with a Kadee if it breaks or does not play well with other cars. This is more of a cost consideration than anything else.
As Randy said, the best coupler in the world is no good if it is not installed or adjusted properly. The Kadee height standard gage is an essential tool to keep things running well. In addition to coupler height the gage has a number of other functions:
I do not let a car or locomotive on my layout without running it by the Kadee standard gage.
This first point is, I think, the essential one in answering the OP's question. A lot of people have posted ringing endorsements of Kadee couplers, and that's great (and right, too), but it seemed to me (and still does) that the OP is trying to avoid the perhaps very significant effort (and expense) of converting all of his locos / rolling stock to Kadees immediately.
I think mix and match, and replace by attrition is a more sensible -- both from a time and budgetary standard -- approach.
When other manufacturers started making Kadee clones, my first thought was, "ALL RIGHT!" Then, I discovered the reality of the situation. Plastic sprung clones stink! The little plastic whisker that holds the knuckle closed ALL invariably fail. ALL of my stock gets Kadees installed before they go into service. Since I use the Kadee track magnets for uncoupling, I've found that the trip pins on most of the clones don't pull to the side as well as the Kadees. My guess is they have less steel in them.
To me, it comes down to the old adage, "It's just as good as a Kadee!" If that's what you're comparing it to, I might as well just go ahead and use Kadees.
And by all means, buy the Kadee coupler height gauge if you don't have one. It will save you countless issues. If your willing to cut off the couplers from truck mounted cars, and body mount them, you'll find your stock will be more reliable, as well. Especially when backing them through turnouts.
Lately I've been cutting the coupler pins off my rolling stock and loco when I take one off the layout for service.
Springfield PA
I can only agree with the above regarding the Kadee couplers. And I use them exclusively myself now, because I have gotten tired of all problems with the "compatible" coupler-makes.
I have also started converting all my couplers to the scale size equivalent, as my layout have generous curves and no elevations that could otherwise disturb good operations with the smaller knuckle size.
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I do cheat though - I used skewers to uncouple, not track magnets, except I haven't been able to bring myself to make that final step of cutting off the 'air hose'. So when I roll them on the gauge I just make sure it's over the top of the platform, how high I don't care - so mine will never catch on the track. They also tend to not work on track magnets, but, that's not an issue for me. The PROPER setting is so they just barely clear without scraping but also without much of a visible gap between the platform and the hose. Exact specs are in the instruction sheet but I never got that fussy and they always worked. Regular needlenose pliers work to adjust them but the Kadee rounded pliers are MUCH easier - they are actually some other sort of specialty plier, I forget exactly what the REAL use is, but for shaping the curved air hose they can't be beat.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker I am a die-hard Kadee fan. Any piece I get that has a 'kadee compatible' coupler gets changed out for a real Kadee. I just find they work better and more consistently. Proper alignment is crucial for good operation (don't want half your train to uncouple when starting up the grade), so get one of the Kadee height gauges and make sure all your couplers are within tolerance. Kadee has so many coupler variations that you can always get the right one for the job - high, center, or low head position, short, medium, or long shank, and dozens of different mountings. Newer rolling stock is somewhat standardized but there are always the oddballs where a plain #5 doesn't come out right. The new whisker spring ones are even easier to install and use a real METAL spring, not some plastic that can wear out and lose tension over time. --Randy
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Nothing but Kadee's here as well. I use #5's and 148's almost exclusively.
You should be careful when first starting to use them though. Kadee makes offset couplers for stock that is a little high or low. Using them on a car that doesn't need them can cause issues. They also make a scale coupler that is a bit smaller than the HO standard. I'd avoid trying to use them unless all cars have scale couplers.
johnspat I model in HO. Is it desirable or even possible to standardize with one coupler for all locos and rolling stock? I have 8 locos (5 deisel and 3 steam) and many freight and pasenger cars. I find that some engines and some rolling stock are not compatable.
I model in HO. Is it desirable or even possible to standardize with one coupler for all locos and rolling stock? I have 8 locos (5 deisel and 3 steam) and many freight and pasenger cars. I find that some engines and some rolling stock are not compatable.
Without going into a lot of song and dance yadas yadas here's the boiled down truth.
The KD #5 and #148 fits 99% of the available locomotives and cars.
KD is the "standard" coupler by choice.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I am a die-hard Kadee fan. Any piece I get that has a 'kadee compatible' coupler gets changed out for a real Kadee. I just find they work better and more consistently. Proper alignment is crucial for good operation (don't want half your train to uncouple when starting up the grade), so get one of the Kadee height gauges and make sure all your couplers are within tolerance. Kadee has so many coupler variations that you can always get the right one for the job - high, center, or low head position, short, medium, or long shank, and dozens of different mountings. Newer rolling stock is somewhat standardized but there are always the oddballs where a plain #5 doesn't come out right. The new whisker spring ones are even easier to install and use a real METAL spring, not some plastic that can wear out and lose tension over time.
For the vast majoriy of present-day model railroaders, the Kadee magnetic coupler is the de facto standard. RTR and kit cars don't come with them to start with, but have them installed as aftermarket items.
Half a century ago, the NMRA spent considerable time and talent trying to develop a 'standard' coupler for HO. The result was the horn-hook, still found on toy trains and (in a little plastic baggie) in some ready-to-run boxes with cars that already have Kadee 'clones' installed. In the end, even the NMRA rejected the idea of a standard coupler.
To use an automotive analogy, Kadee is the Lexus of couplers - dependable, long-lived, but at a price. The various Kadee 'clones' (same basic appearance, somewhat compatable) range from Ford to junker in performance. Other, non-compatable couplers may be Ferrari (Sergeant) or Yugo (any horn-hook) but won't work with the mainstream magnetics.
To put this in perspective, most of my cars came with Baker couplers (think basketball hoop crossed with logger's Peavey.) Since Kadee couplers can be had with a variety of mounting arrangements, all of my active rolling stock is Kadee equipped. Units awaiting activation (aka unbuilt kits) will be fitted with Kadees before being placed in service.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Great response CTValleyRR. Thanks, John