MTH Little Joe video

[dinwitty]

for now I could only replace the MTH decoder with something else, I am working on DCC/sounding my NWSL Joe I have ended up using the 4 amp decoder from Digitrax and the soundbug and I am going to use and synthesize sounds for it listening to some Little Joe recordings to get as accurate as possible.

[rcgrabbag]

 I would expect that it's theoretically possible to change the sound, but I'm not aware of MTH ever providing alternate sound samples. I'm pretty sure they never have. My solution would be to simply turn the sound down. There's a fair amount of "whirring" that doesn't seem to come through on recordings (such as my video), but I agree there's an odd sort of diesel sound that MTH has given it. I'll just turn it down. I have a BLI GG1 and it makes what seems to be a more accurate sound, but, it doesn't actually sync well with my throttle inputs, whereas the MTH does. It's an original Paragon, so maybe it lacks the synchronization of the Paragon 2's? Do they do this for electrics? In any case, seems like there's plenty of give and take across products.

[dinwitty]

rcgrabbag

dinwitty

rcgrabbag

Keep in mind, a lot of these options and features you want, don't want, like or dislike, are customizable on the MTH Little Joe, even in DCC. You can turn off the voices, adjust the volume of the engine sounds, raise and lower each pantograph manually and individually by DCC control (you don't even need their proprietary DCS system to do all these things). I know a lot of people bemoan the use of DCS, but I don't own DCS and never will, and I still get a lot of control with MTH products using DCC (NCE DCC to be exact). I don't own MTH only, maybe 3-4 locos. I have more BLI, Athearn, Walthers, etc. I say this only to present what I'd like to come across as an unbiased view. I can't argue the inaccuracy of the details as I am no expert in that area. But if you're basing a large part of your decision on inclusion/lack of operational features, it's a good chance that what you're asking for is already there.

If I am going to park the Joe, I may want to drop both pans, remotely , powered thru the overhead wire, drop them both, no power. Running on 2 rail no overhead, well dream on, have fun... I just hope MTH smartens up to the DCC crowd, if I can't do certain things without a DCS system, forget it.

 

I'm not sure I'm following. What exactly are you trying to do? Again, I don't think I'm defending MTH to any unreasonable degree. But don't you think your wish list, if I'm reading it correctly, is a tall order for ANY manufacturer to fulfill?

Correct me if I'm wrong...you're trying to drop both pans remotely, and then that's where I get lost. If you want to run power through the pans with the MTH Little Joe, you can simply throw a switch on the loco which sets it up to grab power from overhead catenary instead of two rails underneath. I don't think it's checking off all the items you want, but I'm not familiar with any manufacturer of an HO electric that is.

Personally, I don't think the things you can't do without DCS are a deal breaker, but that is my own personal opinion. In an ideal world, I would prefer that MTH move away from DCS, but since that is not likely, DCC still provides a great deal of control, and is certainly a far cry from the old days before DCC.

I will explain again, power though the pans, dcc power then works thru overhead wire. Drop both pans, the engine does not have power. You cannot raise the pans to get power. My modding idea is to have 2 dcc decoders in the engine. one decoder works thru the pans/overhead, the other is wired thru the rails, and does not power the motor. This maintains power to a dcc decoder to raise/lower pans. Both pans down, the engine cannot move. But you can raise the pans to power the engine up. no, I don't expect the manufacturers to do this, you would have to mod this in. The sound is wrong, I got Loksound's GG1 and it sounds correct, there is no rumbling diesel sound, some clanking of relays, maybe a fan revs up, some creaks, a little rush of some kind of sound, but thats it. Can you mod the sound of the DCS system to correct this? I havent seen customizable sounds yet from MTH. I'm asking myself questions about the pans, if you decide to change out the decoder, will that affect how the pans work, would you work them using the light functions or control functions? If you had to, maybe you can piggyback the DCS and DCC, the DCS work the pans only then your fav decoder work the motor/lights/sound.

[rcgrabbag]

dinwitty

rcgrabbag

Keep in mind, a lot of these options and features you want, don't want, like or dislike, are customizable on the MTH Little Joe, even in DCC. You can turn off the voices, adjust the volume of the engine sounds, raise and lower each pantograph manually and individually by DCC control (you don't even need their proprietary DCS system to do all these things). I know a lot of people bemoan the use of DCS, but I don't own DCS and never will, and I still get a lot of control with MTH products using DCC (NCE DCC to be exact). I don't own MTH only, maybe 3-4 locos. I have more BLI, Athearn, Walthers, etc. I say this only to present what I'd like to come across as an unbiased view. I can't argue the inaccuracy of the details as I am no expert in that area. But if you're basing a large part of your decision on inclusion/lack of operational features, it's a good chance that what you're asking for is already there.

If I am going to park the Joe, I may want to drop both pans, remotely , powered thru the overhead wire, drop them both, no power. Running on 2 rail no overhead, well dream on, have fun... I just hope MTH smartens up to the DCC crowd, if I can't do certain things without a DCS system, forget it.

 

I'm not sure I'm following. What exactly are you trying to do? Again, I don't think I'm defending MTH to any unreasonable degree. But don't you think your wish list, if I'm reading it correctly, is a tall order for ANY manufacturer to fulfill?

Correct me if I'm wrong...you're trying to drop both pans remotely, and then that's where I get lost. If you want to run power through the pans with the MTH Little Joe, you can simply throw a switch on the loco which sets it up to grab power from overhead catenary instead of two rails underneath. I don't think it's checking off all the items you want, but I'm not familiar with any manufacturer of an HO electric that is.

Personally, I don't think the things you can't do without DCS are a deal breaker, but that is my own personal opinion. In an ideal world, I would prefer that MTH move away from DCS, but since that is not likely, DCC still provides a great deal of control, and is certainly a far cry from the old days before DCC.

[dinwitty]

rcgrabbag

Keep in mind, a lot of these options and features you want, don't want, like or dislike, are customizable on the MTH Little Joe, even in DCC. You can turn off the voices, adjust the volume of the engine sounds, raise and lower each pantograph manually and individually by DCC control (you don't even need their proprietary DCS system to do all these things). I know a lot of people bemoan the use of DCS, but I don't own DCS and never will, and I still get a lot of control with MTH products using DCC (NCE DCC to be exact). I don't own MTH only, maybe 3-4 locos. I have more BLI, Athearn, Walthers, etc. I say this only to present what I'd like to come across as an unbiased view. I can't argue the inaccuracy of the details as I am no expert in that area. But if you're basing a large part of your decision on inclusion/lack of operational features, it's a good chance that what you're asking for is already there.

If I am going to park the Joe, I may want to drop both pans, remotely , powered thru the overhead wire, drop them both, no power. Running on 2 rail no overhead, well dream on, have fun... I just hope MTH smartens up to the DCC crowd, if I can't do certain things without a DCS system, forget it.

[duckdogger]

 As I listened I wondered what is all that sound was from?  It's and electric, didn't they just hum?  Don't recall the GG1s in Harrisburg making engine sounds.  Squeeling brakes, flange noise, but no motor sound.

[rcgrabbag]

Keep in mind, a lot of these options and features you want, don't want, like or dislike, are customizable on the MTH Little Joe, even in DCC. You can turn off the voices, adjust the volume of the engine sounds, raise and lower each pantograph manually and individually by DCC control (you don't even need their proprietary DCS system to do all these things). I know a lot of people bemoan the use of DCS, but I don't own DCS and never will, and I still get a lot of control with MTH products using DCC (NCE DCC to be exact). I don't own MTH only, maybe 3-4 locos. I have more BLI, Athearn, Walthers, etc. I say this only to present what I'd like to come across as an unbiased view. I can't argue the inaccuracy of the details as I am no expert in that area. But if you're basing a large part of your decision on inclusion/lack of operational features, it's a good chance that what you're asking for is already there.

[dinwitty]

I went into my LHS and they had the MTH Joe there, so I had the owner run thru a few paces on the test track. I asked him to push the engine onto my thumb while I held it in place at the coupler and the porch, which is flexed, did not slide sideways. There is a "nudger" from the body to the porch to push down on the truck. My Bowser 4-6-6-4 has something similar, a spring to push down on the front driverset. I think the prototype Joe has some kind of support mechanism to spread the weight onto the trucks even tho the porch is rigid. So the Joe did better than the Centipede in that test. The pantagraphs flipped when changing directions. The sound, uhm, well, sounds like a diesel, I have been next to an operating Joe, it does not sound like that, you can barely here it when it starts. Sounds... WRONG. They had a voice when the pan went up..."Hey Joe, check the tension on that pan..."...cute...but....nooo...you can't hear engineers, conductors, thats why you have bells/whistles. I have had a long thought how to deal with flipping pantagraphs, and I plan to have operating overhead wire and you HAVE to power your engine thru the wire. However, you, on the prototype, can raise/lower pans even with both pans down, they run on air. My solution is to have the engine have a duo DCC decoder in it, run the base operations like raise/lower thru the wheels, then the 2nd decoder runs the motor/ lights thru the overhead wire. This is is how if you want to do it realistically and correctly. Oh well, tinplate time. I don't think I have plans to buy the MTH Joe, if I do, theres going to be a lot of modding. I have more work to do on my NWSL Joe to get it DCCized and light and sound (correct sound).

[Flashwave]

Burlington Northern Rails

 

A fimr in Brazil I think is making a plastic version, there were some on ebay not too long ago, I was almost tempted to buy one.

 Frateschi makes the model in plastic.  http://www.frateschi.com.br/produtos/v8_eng.php

 

Who also makes those nifty shortyblnt observations, so it ought to be a decent looking loco.

[Burlington Northern Rails]

 

A fimr in Brazil I think is making a plastic version, there were some on ebay not too long ago, I was almost tempted to buy one.

 Frateschi makes the model in plastic.  http://www.frateschi.com.br/produtos/v8_eng.php

 

[dinwitty]

AntonioFP45

dinwitty

AntonioFP45

Curiousity: 

How does the prototype Milwaukee Road Little Joe compare to the New Haven EP-4 as far as appearance? (besides the huge grill that the EP4 had on the sides)

2 less driver wheels, can looks more like an F unit, no extending front porch.

 

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow!  A picture is worth more than a thousand words.  Dinwitty, thanks so much for sharing that photo of your brass unit (who made it, Alco Models?).  The Little Joe (2-D+D-2) is a monster compared to the EP4 (2-C+C-2).   I'm a New Haven fan and am hoping that a manufacturer someone would produce an EP4 as well as an EP5.  

not my model, I websearched and posted it as a reference. I own the NWSL Little Joe could be ALCO most likely, my websearch shows Overland did/is/might be have one. A fimr in Brazil I think is making a plastic version, there were some on ebay not too long ago, I was almost tempted to buy one.

[AntonioFP45]

dinwitty

AntonioFP45

Curiousity: 

How does the prototype Milwaukee Road Little Joe compare to the New Haven EP-4 as far as appearance? (besides the huge grill that the EP4 had on the sides)

2 less driver wheels, can looks more like an F unit, no extending front porch.

 

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow!  A picture is worth more than a thousand words.  Dinwitty, thanks so much for sharing that photo of your brass unit (who made it, Alco Models?).  The Little Joe (2-D+D-2) is a monster compared to the EP4 (2-C+C-2).   I'm a New Haven fan and am hoping that a manufacturer will produce an EP4 as well as an EP5.  

[dinwitty]

rcgrabbag

dinwitty

rcgrabbag

dinwitty

do me a favor, setup some curves, like 22" radius, then run about 10 cars behind it, and run it backwards and watch the porch action.

I'm don't think I'm familiar with the vernacular...porch action? What is that? Does it get bound up or pushed around somehow? I'll give it a go an see what happens. Did you post something similar about the BLI Centipedes in another thread?

someone posted about the Centipede's porch twisting while backing up causing a derail issue, I checked mine and sure enough, backing up they nudge off center pushing cars, the articulated porch on the model, the prototype didnt, and I own a NWSL Little Joe and its porch is direct on the driver frame, no articulation, runs fine. I posted more on the BLI forums.

I gotcha. Yes, it would seem the same thing would happen with the Little Joe.

The articulated porch has the same effect as truck mounted couplers, maybe halfway, but the truck has side slop and can't hold the coupler frame rigid. Pulling not a prob, pushing, which your going to have to do sometime, is an issue. The articulation also throws the porch out farther on a curve. The Joe maybe not as much, but the centipede, whoa!

[rcgrabbag]

dinwitty

rcgrabbag

dinwitty

do me a favor, setup some curves, like 22" radius, then run about 10 cars behind it, and run it backwards and watch the porch action.

I'm don't think I'm familiar with the vernacular...porch action? What is that? Does it get bound up or pushed around somehow? I'll give it a go an see what happens. Did you post something similar about the BLI Centipedes in another thread?

someone posted about the Centipede's porch twisting while backing up causing a derail issue, I checked mine and sure enough, backing up they nudge off center pushing cars, the articulated porch on the model, the prototype didnt, and I own a NWSL Little Joe and its porch is direct on the driver frame, no articulation, runs fine. I posted more on the BLI forums.

I gotcha. Yes, it would seem the same thing would happen with the Little Joe.

[dinwitty]

rcgrabbag

dinwitty

do me a favor, setup some curves, like 22" radius, then run about 10 cars behind it, and run it backwards and watch the porch action.

I'm don't think I'm familiar with the vernacular...porch action? What is that? Does it get bound up or pushed around somehow? I'll give it a go an see what happens. Did you post something similar about the BLI Centipedes in another thread?

someone posted about the Centipede's porch twisting while backing up causing a derail issue, I checked mine and sure enough, backing up they nudge off center pushing cars, the articulated porch on the model, the prototype didnt, and I own a NWSL Little Joe and its porch is direct on the driver frame, no articulation, runs fine. I posted more on the BLI forums.

[dinwitty]

AntonioFP45

Curiousity: 

How does the prototype Milwaukee Road Little Joe compare to the New Haven EP-4 as far as appearance? (besides the huge grill that the EP4 had on the sides)

2 less driver wheels, can looks more like an F unit, no extending front porch.

[rcgrabbag]

dinwitty

do me a favor, setup some curves, like 22" radius, then run about 10 cars behind it, and run it backwards and watch the porch action.

I'm don't think I'm familiar with the vernacular...porch action? What is that? Does it get bound up or pushed around somehow? I'll give it a go an see what happens. Did you post something similar about the BLI Centipedes in another thread?

[dinwitty]

do me a favor, setup some curves, like 22" radius, then run about 10 cars behind it, and run it backwards and watch the porch action.

[AntonioFP45]

Curiousity: 

How does the prototype Milwaukee Road Little Joe compare to the New Haven EP-4 as far as appearance? (besides the huge grill that the EP4 had on the sides)

[Santa Fe Rick]

That's great,I too have a NCE system. A PH Pro system. I like it a lot. Rick

[rcgrabbag]

 I am using an NCE Power Cab DCC controller. I don't think I'll be investing in a DCS system. Too much other DCC stuff to operate. Plus, my club uses DCC (no surprise there, I'm sure!). You still get a good amount of control and features using DCC with MTH stuff, but there are limitations.

[Santa Fe Rick]

Enjoyed the video clip.What DCC system are you using? Rick

[rcgrabbag]

My previous post linking back to my blog where the photos of the Little Joe are was deleted because it was interpreted as advertising. Just to be clear, my website is simply a personal blog on hobby related stuff that I personally own. I do not sell locomotives in any way. So, I'll just post a link to the YouTube video I took if that's permissible: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PxnrdFAnV8