A few questions for ground goop guys

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 Off to the work shop to make up a batch of Lou Sassi ground goop. I am not planning on using it right away so I am adding the Lysol as suggested.

My questions are,

#1. Do you need to add ground cover before it dries or can you come back and add it at a later date perhaps by spraying it with wet water?

#2 I noticed on a tutorial that the author used pieces of wood to keep the area where buildings would be planted, is this a necessary step or can the goop be removed where the building is going to be perhaps by removing the dried goop with a hobby knife etc.

#3. How long does it take for this stuff to dry or set up?

#4. Lastly can it be used on vertical surfaces such as  cliffs or sides of a canyon or quarry wall lets say or is it best used on horizontal surfaces?

 

I figured before I go make a big mess let me ask those of you who have use/ have used it before.

Thanks your advice and the sharing your experience is greatly appreciated.

[selector]

I don't know about must or need, but I would recommend that you do take the opportunity of applying ground cover before the goop dries because, in my experience using Joe Fugate's formula, you will have to add a lot of water to it before you can spray or dribble any glue/matte medium to apply the ground cover later...after it dries.  The compound will be absorb a lot of water first, or it will take it all from your adhesive...you choose.  Best to let it set for maybe 30 minutes, and then spray it once with water, apply the glue, and sprinkle immediately.  I learned all this the hard way.

You can add an extra thick layer of the goop and scrape away a foundation/pad for structures, but I see that many experts and instructions for the better kits suggest building the kits on a platform, say 1/4" plywood.  It is easy to cut and measure the ply for your structure's needs, map out on the layout where it will be, and just leave a gap or hole.  In fact, I built a riser, as I would for the splines nearby, set the platform on in, centered, and then built up the aluminum window screen base around the platform to border the space.  Covering that with goop later was the easy part.  Remove, screw driven through the platform into the top of the riser, and you can build the structure on it somewhere else.

I only have experience on my layout using my technique/application, and using Joe's formula.   I found it took about 10 - 12 hours to not feel cool or damp, but it could be less or longer, depending on the nature of the air around the drying portion, air movement, and the thickness of the goop applied.  I use a dehumidifier in my basement several weeks of the year when I know it is rising higher than 65%.  If you wife hangs drying to finish on racks, or if you are drying several applications of goop, you know it will be worse, not better.

Yes, it can be used on vertical surfaces, but you will have to use dams.  Use scrap whatever, but it must not budge, and you build up from a first base application.  Once you have your height and breadth, remove the form/dam, and carve away what you don't want.

-Crandell

 

[gmcrail]

Allegheny2-6-6-6

 Off to the work shop to make up a batch of Lou Sassi ground goop. I am not planning on using it right away so I am adding the Lysol as suggested.

My questions are,

#1. Do you need to add ground cover before it dries or can you come back and add it at a later date perhaps by spraying it with wet water?

I always add it before it dries.

#2 I noticed on a tutorial that the author used pieces of wood to keep the area where buildings would be planted, is this a necessary step or can the goop be removed where the building is going to be perhaps by removing the dried goop with a hobby knife etc.

I suppose it depends on the formula, but mine dries hard as a rock. not an easy thing to remove.  I've had luck with simply pressing the foundation of the building directly into the goop before it dries, leaving an imprint, then removing it right away (helps to put a thin coat of Vaseline on the foundation first -don't ask how I know ).  Then when it dries, just set the building back into the imprint.

#3. How long does it take for this stuff to dry or set up?

About 24-36 hours, depending on air circulation and humidity. 

#4. Lastly can it be used on vertical surfaces such as  cliffs or sides of a canyon or quarry wall lets say or is it best used on horizontal surfaces?

No idea -my layout's flat. Should work OK on gentle slopes, but as Crandell indicated, it would be problematic on steeper ones. 

I figured before I go make a big mess let me ask those of you who have use/ have used it before.

Good thinking.

Thanks your advice and the sharing your experience is greatly appreciated.

 

De Nada - it's what we do. 

 

[LooseClu]

  

I had no problem with a steep river bank- thicken the mix a bit and it will stick to the ceiling.  A change in plans for a forest area caused me to put new ground cover over the patch of long dried goop.  I did the normal wet water spray, watery glue spray, and new ground cover followed by dribbling a 50-50 mix of watered down white glue.  The "new" forest area floor looked just like the original tract (that was put down on the wet goop) and it was there to stay after a day of drying.   I've also attached static grass on long dried goop using the same process.  I found digging up dried goop rather pointless just to locate a building.  I might have to cut off a peak or two (with a sharp serrated knife) to get the building to sit level, then get out the goop container and fill in any gaps.  Give the building a few "wiggles" while the goop dries and it won't be permanently attached but will be well seated. 

[HaroldA]

You have some good advice here already, but here is my .

I add ground cover right away and don't let the goop dry. In fact, I try to add everything except trees, spray it with wet water, then dilute matt medium.

For buildings, I use the Vaseline trick, but since there is paint in the goop, some protection needs to be given to areas of the building that you don't want to get it on.  You could outline the building and then spread the goop up to the lines, but that gets a little tedious.  I make any adjustments while the goop is 'wet.'

Since I use it in my basement, it dries rock hard in about 24 hours.  It is a little difficult to remove, although I have never tried to re-wet it with alcohol or water.  My approach is that I plan ahead where I want it and then leave it alone and it stays workable for about 2-3 hours.  Unused goop can be kept in an airtight container and it will keep almost indefinitely - however, I will cover it with plastic wrap before snapping on a lid.  If it looks dry, you can add a little water along with Lysol and you are back in business. 

I have used it on vertical surfaces and it works fine.  I don't change the basic recipe since I find it to be a little sticky anyway - probably from the glue.

Overall, I think it's pretty good stuff and I use it all the time.

[m horton]

Another trick for setting buildings is to use saran wrap on foundation, that keeps the goop from staining foundations and siding. Just  remove before it fully dries and building will sit in indents in goop. I personally let mine set up in goop. Also, if made right, the goop should be the consistency of peanut butter and adhere to steeper incline with no problems. mh.

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 Well I mixed up a double sized batch last night and man it was worse then mixing cement (the real stuff)

I have a suspicion that the celuclay may have been old  as this stuff seemed to be drying as I was mixing it. I used fine vermiculite so the texture was ok once I finally got it mixed.to a workable consistency by adding a little more latex paint and a touch of wet water.I just check the seal container over in the workshop and the stuff is still pliable and just as I mixed it last night. I will double protect it by putting the container inside a zip lock bag just to be on the safe side.

I made up a small test module to try it out on and to see how well it worked with other scenery methods I have used in the past and are experimenting with now. I had a section when I attached red rosin paper and straight white glue hard-shell to a land form created out of a piece of extruded foam. I spread it out with a pallet knife which proved to be a good investment so I'll go back and get a few more of different styles but the one thing I did notice it seems to set up rather quickly. Not the over night drying time as some of you have experienced and not as fast as a 15 minute epoxy but almost the same as when you use Strucolite or Sculptamold or hydrocal but not with the smooth texture you can achieve with hydrocal.

Do you think it's possible that the Cellulose could have been old, it was wrapped up in a seal plastic package and purchased a few weeks a go but when i opened it it seem to have the consistency of a lump of compressed paper.

[jacon12]

I suspect that your batch wasn't quite wet enough, making it more difficult to easily mix it. I've ran into this problem also, even though I was careful about using the correct formula. Adding a wee bit of water corrected this and the mixing got a whole lot easier. Add this a 'slosh' at a time, don't over do it. Personally, I think ground goop is great and have used it on maybe 80 percent of my layout so far. One of it's best attributes is its ability to stick to those vertical areas you mentioned, allowing you to press in ground foam or whatever you're using for ground cover. Another great feature is its very long working time when compared to covers such as plaster or some of the Woodland Scenics products. I've even used it a couple of times to attach hydrocal 'rocks' to hillsides. And yes, I always start applying ground covers such as real dirt, ground foam etc. when the ground goop is still wet. Jarrell

Allegheny2-6-6-6

 Well I mixed up a double sized batch last night and man it was worse then mixing cement (the real stuff)

I have a suspicion that the celuclay may have been old  as this stuff seemed to be drying as I was mixing it. I used fine vermiculite so the texture was ok once I finally got it mixed.to a workable consistency by adding a little more latex paint and a touch of wet water.I just check the seal container over in the workshop and the stuff is still pliable and just as I mixed it last night. I will double protect it by putting the container inside a zip lock bag just to be on the safe side.

I made up a small test module to try it out on and to see how well it worked with other scenery methods I have used in the past and are experimenting with now. I had a section when I attached red rosin paper and straight white glue hard-shell to a land form created out of a piece of extruded foam. I spread it out with a pallet knife which proved to be a good investment so I'll go back and get a few more of different styles but the one thing I did notice it seems to set up rather quickly. Not the over night drying time as some of you have experienced and not as fast as a 15 minute epoxy but almost the same as when you use Strucolite or Sculptamold or hydrocal but not with the smooth texture you can achieve with hydrocal.

Do you think it's possible that the Cellulose could have been old, it was wrapped up in a seal plastic package and purchased a few weeks a go but when i opened it it seem to have the consistency of a lump of compressed paper.

[selector]

Allegheny2-6-6-6

 Well I mixed up a double sized batch last night and man it was worse then mixing cement (the real stuff)...

 

The same thing will happen with any gypsum-based compound, including Joe's formula which comprises two parts Plaster of Paris, one part Portland Cement, and three parts finely ground vermiculite.  I often had to add another quarter cup of water to my bucket just after I had ladled on half of the mixed batch because it began to set.  I kept a jug of water nearby just for that purpose, and I resorted to its use almost every batch.  So, add water, mix, start slapping it on the framing/screening/woven cardboard lattice, and do add a dollop of water, remix, and spatula out the rest.  

By the way, it would be a good idea to consider the use of masonry dyes.  I quickly learned that I didn't like the tone of the finished product, and I didn't want to use up all my craft acrylics, which would have been just fine.  So, I purchased masonry dyes from a local builders' supply and added about a teaspoon of "mesa" or "brown" sometimes a mixture, to each batch.

BTW, if you find your formula to be very difficult to carve after the fact, Joe's formula is quite easy to carve.

-Crandell

[HaroldA]

Allegheny2-6-6-6

Well I mixed up a double sized batch last night and man it was worse then mixing cement (the real stuff)

Yes, I would agree your mixture wasn't wet enough but don't think it had anything to do with the Cell-U-Clay.  I have had some of it on hand for years and it is fine.  Some of my batches are a little dry so I just add a little more latex paint and they are fine.  Also, the drying time depends on your room and humidity - it just happens that way for me.

[m horton]

I don't believe this goop is meant to be carved, like plaster for stone faces. It's just a ground cover meant to be covered itself by foam, dirt,  brush, etc. You can plant real or carved stones  in it for small outcroppings. mh.

[Motley]

If your dog is big, the best thing to use either a shovel scooper, or a trashbag turned inside out. Don't want to get any on you.

Edit: Oh, wait... I thought you said "ground poop"