I use heat sinks on both sides of the rails when I solder, but occasionally, I still get a melted tie or two. I've found get it hot and cooled it down again as quick as possible works for me.
Bob Berger, C.O.O. N-ovation & Northwestern R.R. My patio layout....SEE IT HERE
There's no place like ~/ ;)
make sure the surface you are soldering to is nice and clean.
Pre drill the hole for the feeder. Then use Solid wire for the feeder and do a small bend at the tip. About a half inch from the feed kink the wire so that the feeder is pressed into the rail when you lower the wire. That way you don't have to hold it. It will hold itself. Use flux on the joint. When soldering place the iron at the spot where the wire and track join. Use a very thin solder so that it melts quickly.
Springfield PA
luvadj I use heat sinks on both sides of the rails when I solder, but occasionally, I still get a melted tie or two. I've found get it hot and cooled it down again as quick as possible works for me.
Heat sinks of one form or another. I typically use a couple of clamps, one on either side of the feeder. I've also recently read about using wetted tissue paper, being a similar concept to the wet cotton balls. However, the key is what luvadj said- get the heat on as quickly as possible, get things melted properly, and let it cool off.
I use a 45W iron for track-work, so the 40W is probably in the right range. 15W or 25W will probably take so long heating to melting temperature, that even with heat sinks, the surrounding material will heat up to the point where ties start melting.
The object is to get a good bond and a joint that looks wetted. (Just like wetting in scenery.) The faster the better as long as the result is good.
What I do is this: (I use a temperature controlled station and heat it to the equivalent of a 40 watt iron, about 700 degrees F.)
Clean the rail with a scratch brush. Strip the wire and bend it to the shape needed to lay against the rail. Apply a small amount of rosin flux. Wipe the irons tip on a wet sponge then apply it and the solder to the rail as close as I can to the feeder wire. (I apply the solder to the tip of the iron first then move it to the rail.) When the solder melts, move the iron to include the feeder wire. As soon as I see the solder flow on the feeder wire I remove the iron.
If I can't get the wire to stay against the rail, I will apply solder to the tip and then apply the iron to the rail on the flux.
When I apply the solder to the iron first and it melts, it then flows to the rail. When it flows to the rail, it carries or conducts the heat to the rail which helps heat it up more quickly. This heat transfer is of prime importance, just like starting with a clean area to be soldered.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
nscsxcrrailfanA couple of years ago, I started using a technique where I would apply rosin flux on the end of the track feeder, put some rosin solder 40/60 on the tip, and then apply that to the wire, which would result in a tinned wire (I set the iron at slightly below half on the amount of power). I would then take some flux and put a very small amount using a toothpick on the side of the rail where I wanted the feeder (of course I cleaned it first with alcohol and a toothpick). I then put some more solder on the iron tip and touched the tinned wire to the rail and touched the iron to the wire and rail causing the solder on the wire, tip, and the flux to all combine creating a fairly good joint. This technique has worked for me
I'll play the devils advocate here and tell you that your original technique is right on base. The trick is using separate rosin flux. I use a 25w Weller using a similar technique taught to me by a man who made a living repairing sound equipment. He learned it from his father who learned it in the Air Force..... I clean the rail and do the entire joint in one easy process. Yes, I get perfect results every time and I can solder a rail feeder onto code 70 flex in less than a second. Here is a short video of a clinic I gave last year for the local NMRA. http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h259/slow_rr/SLOW_RR_II/?action=view¤t=SolderingTech2.flv
On the layout I have now I have soldered around 6,000 joints. Guess how many have failed.... (0) And... no melted ties. I do not use heat sinks. Sometimes I pretin, but not always.
A little theory - Heat is transferred to the joint mostly where the metal of the iron is contacting the metal of the metal being heated. Remember that air is an insulator. A dry iron has very little contact area, so the heat is transferred slowly allowing the heat to travel down the track melting ties as it goes, but won't easily get hot enough where the joint is to melt the solder or if it does you may get a cold solder joint. Having a small drop of solder on the tip of the iron increases drastically the contact surface allowing heat to be transferred quickly from both the drop of solder and the entire (very hot) iron. The result is a lot of heat right where you need it. You are done quickly and before the heat travels away from the joint to do damage. That phenomenon is the reason some people recommend a larger iron and a flat tip on the iron. More contact area, quicker, better, and safer results.
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
Try a pair of alligator clips from Radio Shack. They do double duty, they hold the feeder wire in place, and they act as heatsinks to reduce the amount of tie melting. I clean my rail with a wire brush in the Dremel. Tinning the feeder is helpful, it carries solder to the joint and doesn't need a third hand to do it. Rosin flux is good. Unless the rail is ultra clean, and the Gods smile upon you, the rosin core of the solder won't give enough flux for a clean joint. Forty watts is on the small side for soldering to rail. I use a 200 watt Weller soldering gun myself.
You want the tip of the iron or gun to be tinned, covered with silvery molten solder. A tip wet with molten solder will flow more heat, faster, into the rail than a black, dry, and crusty tip will. As for how long to heat the joint, you look at the solder. When the joint is hot enough, the solder will melt, wet the rail, and flow into a smooth drop shape. Soon as that happens, the joint is hot enough and you can remove the heat. The cool solder joint must stay shiny. A white frosty look is called a cold solder joint and must be reheated before it is reliable.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Lefty
howmusnscsxcrrailfanA couple of years ago, I started using a technique where I would apply rosin flux on the end of the track feeder, put some rosin solder 40/60 on the tip, and then apply that to the wire, which would result in a tinned wire (I set the iron at slightly below half on the amount of power). I would then take some flux and put a very small amount using a toothpick on the side of the rail where I wanted the feeder (of course I cleaned it first with alcohol and a toothpick). I then put some more solder on the iron tip and touched the tinned wire to the rail and touched the iron to the wire and rail causing the solder on the wire, tip, and the flux to all combine creating a fairly good joint. This technique has worked for me I'll play the devils advocate here and tell you that your original technique is right on base. The trick is using separate rosin flux. I use a 25w Weller using a similar technique taught to me by a man who made a living repairing sound equipment. He learned it from his father who learned it in the Air Force..... I clean the rail and do the entire joint in one easy process. Yes, I get perfect results every time and I can solder a rail feeder onto code 70 flex in less than a second. Here is a short video of a clinic I gave last year for the local NMRA. http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h259/slow_rr/SLOW_RR_II/?action=view¤t=SolderingTech2.flvOn the layout I have now I have soldered around 6,000 joints. Guess how many have failed.... (0) And... no melted ties. I do not use heat sinks. Sometimes I pretin, but not always.A little theory - Heat is transferred to the joint mostly where the metal of the iron is contacting the metal of the metal being heated. Remember that air is an insulator. A dry iron has very little contact area, so the heat is transferred slowly allowing the heat to travel down the track melting ties as it goes, but won't easily get hot enough where the joint is to melt the solder or if it does you may get a cold solder joint. Having a small drop of solder on the tip of the iron increases drastically the contact surface allowing heat to be transferred quickly from both the drop of solder and the entire (very hot) iron. The result is a lot of heat right where you need it. You are done quickly and before the heat travels away from the joint to do damage. That phenomenon is the reason some people recommend a larger iron and a flat tip on the iron. More contact area, quicker, better, and safer results.
nscsxcrrailfan I watched your video and what I think I'm doing wrong is worrying way too much about getting the rail hot. With model RR track you just can't get the rail very hot without melting ties. ALSO ... Is it much of an issue if I just always apply a bead of solder to the iron and rely on separate flux to do my soldering? I'm asking this because I know that the flux boils away when the solder is applied from the iron's tip instead of from a separate spool.
The addition of a good rosin flux (I am using the liquid flux from Micro Mark) is really the secret of the technique. The big reason many sources tell you not to do it the way I do is that the rosin burns away as soon as you put the solder on the iron. The use of flux at the joint being soldered allows the solder to flow into the joint as the rosin does its job of cleaning the area to be soldered. That is also why I don't worry too much about pretinning the wire or the rail. It all happens at once. BTW, sometimes I will add a bit more solder to the joint, but usually there is plenty of solder in the drop on the iron to do the job. Oh, and the rail gets very hot, right at the spot where the joint is made. It will then spread down the rail. But since you used enough heat to do a good joint in a small spot, the temp doesn't get so hot it will melt ties nearby. As I mentioned in the Video, yes, you may damage the little fake "spike right under the place you are making the joint, but that is all. Practice, practice, practice!
The black stuff that accumulates on the iron is burnt rosin, BTW. I clean the iron frequently with the same brass brush you saw in the video.
One other thing. This technique I only use for electrical work! I do something much more "traditional" when building Fast Tracks Turnouts or other soldering work.......
nscsxcrrailfan I had to apply some solder to some old stereo speakers a few weeks ago, and I heated the wire first and then applied solder. It seemed like it took a long time to heat up though.
Did you cut the wire back to make sure it isn't corroded? That is usually what I find when I have had problems doing that... Fixing audio equipment was how I learned the technique. (I owned a Music Recording/DJ Business for about 15 years.) The molten solder will aid in transferring the heat quickly into the connection. When using stranded wire (like audio wire), I usually like to pre-tin the wire before actually making the joint. Seems to work better.
nscsxcrrailfanif it is o.k. to rely on flux instead of heating the wire/rail to hot temperatures?
Answer? Yes. The rail will get hot enough to make the joint. As soon as you see the solder flow into the joint, it is done. That will happen usually in a second or less. You want a quick transfer of the heat.
Here is a photo of the finished result:
Also another short video from the clinic showing other electrical soldering using the technique. Notice where i am holding the wire.... If I touched it half an inch closer to the joint, i would have burned my fingers. I let go when the wire got hot.......
http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h259/slow_rr/SLOW_RR_II/?action=view¤t=SolderingTech1.flv
BTW, I don't solder home wiring.... Something about the code....
Read Jim Hediger's article in this moths MR about soldering track feeders etc. I think you'll find it very informative. The most important things you can do to become a good solder is practice practice practice
Make sure your iron is always clean and you final solder joint is nice and shinny a dull looking joint is a sure sign of a cold solder joint. In my opinion there is no such thing as overkill when it comes to soldering.as far as having a higher wattage iron then necessary. A higher wattage iron simply menas your work surface will heat up faster and give you less change to melt ties
Although someone briefly mentioned it above, I didn't see any emphasis on tinning the rail. It really makes the rest of the job go much easier. Here are the steps I go through:
Apply a small amount of flux to a small surface of the side of the rail.
Apply flux to the tip of the iron.
Apply a small amount of solder to the tip of the iron and wipe the tip on the damp sponge.
Touch the solder and the tip of the iron to the side of the rail where the flux is. Remove both immediately after the solder melts, which should happen in about a second. The result should be a smooth and shiny layer of solder on the side of the rail.
Tin the end of the wire and place/clamp it so that it leans against the side of the rail where you have tinned the rail.
Apply a small amount of flux to the assembled joint.
Touch the tip of the iron to the joint just long enough for solder to melt and flow. It should happen in about a second. The result should be a shiny layer of solder smoothly blended over the wire and the rail.
Another possible problem is the type of tip on your soldering iron. I participated in a couple of threads three years ago in this forum on the relative performance of iron tips and copper tips. You can find these by doing a search on "solder tip question" in Model Railroader Forums.
For better than 40 years now I have never soldered wire directly to the rail, I "always" solder it to the bottom of the rail joiner instead. I can take a group of rail joiners to the work bench, solder them up and have enough to last for several days of track laying at one time.
I also use a "small" torch or my soldering "machine", something I learned as a result of soldering on brass engines.
And, I only use "Tix" solder and flux, a small bit of Tix flux, then the heat and it flows beautifully and it's a very strong bond.
The soldering gun and the "Home Depot" solders I reserve for using on the wiring such as the feeders or most any under the table soldering.
The main thing is I solder it to the rail joiners, haven't melted a tie since I started doing it this way.
Mark
An alternative to soldering the feeder, or even just the joiner to 2 sections of track, is to use some of the Fast-Tracks copper clad PC board crossties. They are pre-gapped so they don't create a short.
I remove one or two of the flextrack (or turnout ties) at a rail joint, insert a PC board tie aligning the inside of each rail with the gap in the cladding. I then apply my solder to the tie at the joiner. You can also include your feeder wire, or solder it separately to the underside to the tie before installing.
You avoid melting ties (although I still apply a heat sink) and avoid creating a high spot where the joiner would have rested on the plastic ties. Lastly, you maintain the track's gauge as the gaps in the PC board ties match the NMRA clearance dimensional standards.
The purpose of flux is to remove corrosion on the surface and let the molten solder touch clean metal. As the soldering iron heats the work, the hot metal starts grabbing oxygen molecules out of the air and forming a coat of unsolderable oxide. The flux counter acts this and keeps the surfaces clean, long enough for the solder to adhere to the metal.
They make acid flux and acid core solder. These are for plumbing work only. Never use acid flux for electrical work. The acid stays active, and is strong enough to corrode small wires thru given a few years. Always use rosin flux. The rosin flux is only active when it is hot and melted. Cool and solid, it doesn't corrode stuff, or at least the corrosion rate is a whole bunch less than acid flux.
The flux lets the solder wet the work. If the solder beads up into little ball shapes, the work is dirty or oxidized and the solder isn't making contact with bare metal.
Always use 60/40 tin lead solder. 60/40 has the lowest melting point, about 190C, or twice boiling water. Hot enough to melt plastic.
Avoid 50-50 solder, that's only for plumbing. The recent anti lead phobia has resulted in a lot of "lead free" solders. I don't trust them. Tin lead solder has been around for thousands of years and it bonds well and stay bonded.
The tip of the iron or gun MUST be tinned. That means covered with a silvery coat of melted solder. Keep a damp sponge on the bench to wipe the hot tip on and keep it bright. If the tinning wears off or burns off you must renew it. Or replace the tip.
When a well tinned tip is pressed to the work, the melted solder flows to the work and makes a solid connection that will flow huge amounts of heat. If the tip looses its tinning, it takes forever to get the work hot enough.
The OP is absolutely correct.
You DO need three hands.
This is just a fact.
I had mine grafted on in the 1980's, but for a different reason.
It has served me well in soldering, though.
I use a temperature controlled station with a heat indicator. When the control shows that the iron has reached the correct temperature, I always allow five minutes before tinning the iron. This ensures that the temperature is correct.
Dennis
nscsxcrrailfanto the person that was talking to me last night about the method I use with the Weller Station who had videos demonstrating this method, do you use this same method on heavy wire or do you completely heat the wire and allow its heat to melt the solder? I remember you stated that you use this same method on small audio wires. For the most part, can you create good solder connections in every situation without heating the metal by relying on flux and hot solder already melted on the iron's tip to rapidly heat the metal? I know I might be running this in the ground, but other than model railroading, I have virtually no experience with soldering on smaller or larger scales, such as electronics or piping, etc....
Think that was me...... You could use the same method with 14awg wire, but..... You would certainly get much better results using an 80 or 100 watt iron. I used to work for a telephone company as a summer hire. I spent a whole summer back in the 1960s soldering telephone line connections inan x-y office in Victor, NY. For that we used very large, very hot irons to do the job even with 24 or smaller wire. The wire was wrapped around a flat connector, then the iron was placed on one side, and the solder was touched to the other side. Again the joint was always good and done very quickly. But... There was nothing to melt so a lot of heat meant very quick and good work. Personally I would not use a solder connection on very large wire in the first place. If you must, that is the time to bring out the heavy artillery.
The technique I was talking about (which I see you found works well...) I use for small electrical connections like soldering on Tortoise Machines (where too much heat can damage the machine), toggle switches (where the same is true), Spade lug connections to small wire (where it just is the easiest way), and for rail connections with drop feeders for power (without melting plastic ties, etc...).
The key to all of this is as a couple of have said, Find a way that works well for you and Practice, practice, practice. If you had to tug hard to get the joint to separate, you had a good joint IMHO. It is a solder, not a weld.
73