Flashwave jasperofzeal The other thing, it's "beaucoup" not "booku". It just reminds me of the guy that posts here and says "wala" instead of "voila". As a guy who grew up with both wala and voila, and having seen both bookoo and booku, but not beaucoup until two weeks ago here on the forums, I say potayto, potahto. (Or should it be Kayto, Kahto? Ther is a pronunciation difference between wala and voila betwixt the people I grew up with, which are librarians, theater people, historians, re-enactors, and a mechanical engineer who confessed they don't know anything about spelling. "Wala" is the relaxed term for something working, "Voila" is when you want to sound all fancylike or the fix was kind of important, like, say the houselights for a musical or something.
jasperofzeal The other thing, it's "beaucoup" not "booku". It just reminds me of the guy that posts here and says "wala" instead of "voila".
As a guy who grew up with both wala and voila, and having seen both bookoo and booku, but not beaucoup until two weeks ago here on the forums, I say potayto, potahto. (Or should it be Kayto, Kahto?
Ther is a pronunciation difference between wala and voila betwixt the people I grew up with, which are librarians, theater people, historians, re-enactors, and a mechanical engineer who confessed they don't know anything about spelling. "Wala" is the relaxed term for something working, "Voila" is when you want to sound all fancylike or the fix was kind of important, like, say the houselights for a musical or something.
Thanks for not taking my observation the wrong way, not many do that. I took French during my high school years, so that's the reason the words jumped out at me; I say potayto.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
Hey Bob,
So you "castrate" your couplers eh?? Interesting, very interesting......
Professor Von Smilch, MSM, DSM, PPM
I have used #5 couplers for many years and when the "scale' couplers came out I bought several sets. I have had little or no trouble with them in mixed consists and I would say I have average track laying capability. I do have a coupler height guage and use it. I also cut the "air hose" wires so they don't overlap as I don't use under the track magnets. I will use whichever couplers are least expensive from Kadee as I don't feel the slight scale discrepency detracts from the looks of my layout.
jasperofzeal FlashwaveThey even sell cut-lever couplers too that work, if you feel like going that far. The cut lever detail that Sergent sells does not actually make the coupler work like the real thing, it's just for looks. Same thing for the top mounted cut lever option they offer, they are only detail options.
FlashwaveThey even sell cut-lever couplers too that work, if you feel like going that far.
The cut lever detail that Sergent sells does not actually make the coupler work like the real thing, it's just for looks. Same thing for the top mounted cut lever option they offer, they are only detail options.
Mistake noted for future postings.
-Morgan
Oh, he just mispelled it, should be "BOOKOO"............if you don't pronounce it what good is it?
Mark
jasperofzealThe cut lever detail that Sergent sells does not actually make the coupler work like the real thing, it's just for looks. Same thing for the top mounted cut lever option they offer, they are only detail options
Agree with you here---
So, can the guy help it if he spells phonetically? Sheeesh------
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
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A couple of things here:
The other thing, it's "beaucoup" not "booku". It just reminds me of the guy that posts here and says "wala" instead of "voila".
What were the couplers made of? I believe McHenry came out with a scale-sized coupler before Kadee, but I might be wrong. The McHenry coupler is made of slippery plastic, and the Kadee is all metal. I haven't had a single problem with the Kadee scale-sized couplers yet, and have been slowly putting them on a lot of my engines. I'm still using #5s for all my cars.
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John, Unless you plan on "switching" those ore cars had you considered using "dummy" couplers? I have done that a lot in the past where I have no intention of switching the cars around. As a matter of fact almost all of my passenger cars have dummy "Cal-Scale" knuckle couplers on them. On of the advantages is there is very little "slack" action to the train.
Again, just something to consider..............
If you have any concerns at all regarding the use of the scale #58 or #158, I must agree that the good old standard #5 is more forgiving in all instances.
I do not recommend mixing non-Kadee equipped cars with Kadee-equipped cars. That can be a recipe for trouble--I have been there myself many times. If you must couple to non-Kadee equipped cars, the #5 coupler seems to be more versatile and forgiving, while the scale #58 or #158 is less forgiving of the other guys' couplers.
Right now I have an ore train of 21 cars that has not been converted to Kadee couplers yet--but I absolutely will not mix other cars in with those ore cars, and I will begin by converting the end cars that might come in contact with other cars first.
Respectfully submitted--
John
Well, this is what "I" do, doesn't make it right or wrong, just works for me. I use the standard size kadee coupler, but I use all "short shank" versions as it not only makes the train "look" better but it also uses less space, a serious consideration when a person runs 50 car trains sometimes. I tried some of the "scale" couplers and they just wouldn't hold together on long trains, for several reasons naturally.
What I do do is to use the scale coupler on the front of any steam engines that I don't double head as well as the lead units on diesel lash-ups. Such as the lead F or E unit and since I like to run my GP or SD units in 3 units sets I have also applied the scale coupler to the front of the lead unit on some of these. I'm still undecided as to whether or not I like this though.
I DO NOT however, use any other couplers other than Kadee's. I have tried the Proto's, the Accumate's, and the McHenry's and my conclusion is that they are only useful if you have a small layout and are running small trains, that is no bigger than 12-15 cars.
As I said earlier, I'm not saying I'm right but it works very well for me.......
7j43kmaxman The vertical head dimension on the #5 couplers is greater than what you get with the more prototype sized couplers. I measured the knuckle height of a Kadee #5: .148 inch I measured the knuckle height of a Kadee #156 ( typical Kadee "scale" coupler): .135 inch (91% the dimension of a #5) I measured the knuckle height of a Sergent coupler: .125 inch (85% the dimension of a #5) I'm not in a rush to blame the slightly smaller coupler faces for coupler mating problems. Trackwork, yes. Height of coupler center, yes. Ed
maxman The vertical head dimension on the #5 couplers is greater than what you get with the more prototype sized couplers.
The vertical head dimension on the #5 couplers is greater than what you get with the more prototype sized couplers.
Ed
I think that if you measure the height of the movable knuckle there might not be too much difference. But if you look at the height of the stationary part of the coupler, I think that you'll see that there is more of a difference, visually anyway. Anyway, I wasn't "blaming" the coupler dimension. I think, as I said above and as others repeated, that vertical height shifts in the trackwork are more to blame.
Craig North Carolina
Uh, the standard shank scale size Kadee whisker coupler is the #158, not 156 as was stated above. I'm not sure how the height of the 158 compares to the 156.
I have fairly decent Kato trackwork, with a 0.4% grade. I can mix Kadee #158 (or 58) couplers with Kadee #5's, and I have no problems with trains separating.
Trackwork and particularly joints must be smooth. Any grade changes need to be smooth and not abrupt. Most modelers do not construct vertical curves into or out of a grade, but instead have a slight "kink" there. I suspect that most issues with trains separating are more related to vertical kinks in the trackwork.
My 2c.
tstageA "coupler" of questions for you. Is the uncoupling issue possibly due to uneven track work? Do you have have steep grades on your layout?
Yes. Here's a good lesson though, go to a museum, ride a "Caboose Train", or any train with open-porch coaches. Watch the couplers. Even on the protoype, they bang in and out, they climb, they fall, They even do concentric circles. All this is either slack action, or due to rough track, or the simple rocking in the cars.
I have come to a conclusion that are models make the same movements that the protoypes do. Although they may not rock as much as the 1:1s, since they are tight to their trucks, but we also may lay rougher track on average than a 1:1 would. (Real trains are not bolted to the trucks, they sit on a pin. That way, if they roll over, the twenty TON truck does not fall through the cieling and crush the people or cargo below it) Since these movents are an 87th of the real one, I doubt we can really see how much out couplers really face. And then take into one other consideration: There's a LOT of space between Kadee knuckles, compared to the protoypes. Add in as well, it's only handled by a spring, not a tightened lock. (This being, i think why some of us unlucky saps watch Kadee springs take off mid-train)
The solution to this movement is the larger coupler head. There's more surface to hold everything together. Otherwidse, our couplers have booku amounts of freeplay in them.
There is also one other option for you. If you feel like switching, take a look at www.sergentengineering.com they sell couplers that work like the protoype. There's a molded swinging knuckle, and when closed, a steel ball drops into it (internally) and locks the knuckle closed. There is NO space between the knuckles for freeplay, and the fit is tight enough that that you also don't get a lot of rise and fall, but there is some. To uncouple, a magnetic wand lifts the ball on the two mated couplers, and can be pulled apart simple as pie. They even sell cut-lever couplers too that work, if you feel like going that far.
COuple of catches, they are more expensive than Kadees, although they are selling bulk packs now that are cheaper by comparison. Also, a Sergent is not directly compatible to a Kadee coupler. YOU CAN fanagle the Kadee knuckle into a Sergent, then push the side of the coupler until the Sergent locks into place around the Kadee.
Also, they are still working on coach couplers. Any car with a diapgram hinders the wand from lifting the couplers, they\ same way a coupler pick cannot get into them. Sergent is working on a type H tightlock coupler and a flat-head magnet that will wedge under the diaghram. but it ain't out yet.
So anyway, have a look, if it intersts you, then great, Otherwise, we'll go back to how to bulletproof a Kadee 58.
maxmanThe vertical head dimension on the #5 couplers is greater than what you get with the more prototype sized couplers.
Craig,
I use both the Kadee #58 and #158 prototype couplers and have never had any problems with them. The #58s come with the copper coupler box insert to provide side-to-side tension. The #158s are the "whisker" versions of the same couple so they don't need the insert.
A "coupler" of questions for you. Is the uncoupling issue possibly due to uneven track work? Do you have have steep grades on your layout?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
If you're determined to have couplers with 'scale' (prototype) size heads and don't want them sliding up and over each other you could give the Kadee #119 shelf coupler a try. The shelfs actually work and keep the couplers from sliding over each other. I use them on tank cars, covered hoppers and any rolling stock that has a tendency to come uncoupled in the manner that you experienced.
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The vertical head dimension on the #5 couplers is greater than what you get with the more prototype sized couplers. This means that there is less forgiveness with the smaller couplers when the cars encounter vertical undulations in the track. It's the old lever thing...one end of the car goes down and the other end goes up. And the longer the car is, the more the one end will rise as the other end falls. So, even if you have the couplers all set at the same height, you can have a situation where the end of the car will rise high enough for the car to uncouple.
You can check to see if you have this condition by looking at the couplers between the cars in your trains as they pass in front of you. Follow along with the train and you'll probably see where the coupler knuckles slide up and down within each other. You might be surprised as to how uneven some of your otherwise non-problem track is.