Same topic...same discussion...same outcome. Let's move on. Thanks.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Heritagefleet1 CNJ831Somehow folks here feel baseless opinion consistently trumps facts if there is a disagreement. It honestly verges on the pathetic. CNJ831... Don't look now, but your Crawfishing. (defensive) Why are you on the defensive over others on this thread asking you to verify where they can access the information you claim to be factual? You keep saying 'its right on this site' or something to that affect yet, you spell out no specifics.
CNJ831Somehow folks here feel baseless opinion consistently trumps facts if there is a disagreement. It honestly verges on the pathetic.
CNJ831... Don't look now, but your Crawfishing. (defensive)
Why are you on the defensive over others on this thread asking you to verify where they can access the information you claim to be factual? You keep saying 'its right on this site' or something to that affect yet, you spell out no specifics.
Heritage - The situation remains that folks here, including yourself, seem incapable to looking up anything for themselves, as has been increasingly demonstrated by the content of threads presented here on all subjects in recent years. With the exception of Joe Fugate, I have never once seen anyone here cite a published hobby statistic, or published fact...only endless personal opinion, most of which is wildly erroneous and totally baseless. The latter never allows any meaningful conclusions to be drawn regarding the disccusion, or situation. Now, I appreciate that this site is composed mostly of newbie and entry-level hobbyists, but one would think that at least some of them have developed the ability to research and intelligently present information supporting their opinions, but such is clearly not in evidence.
Once again, the sources I made reference to include the NER Coupler #218 (concerning NER/NMRA membership that is not computer literate). The post here, in part entitle "Milwaukee Magazine", is where a statement regarding the number of hobbyists there are (provided almost unquestionably by MR, considering the other info in the article) is to be found. And, as I'm sure the latter has already been read by at least half the folks here, it is really quite sad that no one gleaned the relevant information from the article on the first go-round. As to the monthly circulation numbers for MR, as I've also indicated previously, they are readily available by consulting any January issues of MR. As I said, MR's editor has ask me not to post them here.
Now, please, if you wish to continue this discussion on any intelligent level, consult the references I've cited first and then find any conflicting data you can that can be cited, before replying. I regard it a waste of my time replying to people who think they can debate a point with BS posts and no actual subject knowledge.
CNJ831
Frankly, I don´t see a way to keep the friendly neighborhood LHS alive on the basis of discounts, which can be obtained by on-line shopping. Stocking all those little tidbits, which we dearly need, costs a lot of money, which has to be earned. No one can run a business just for the love of model railroading. It finally boils down to an either-or question. Either we are willing to pay a reasonable price and keep the LHS alive as a ready source for the products we need, or we have to live with limited availability of the small, but important things. I do believe, that in the end, all these on-line businesses will also face hard times, as the manufacturers and importers turn to direct sales via the internet.. BLI has its Factory Direct trains and there will be more to follow, as the cost of setting up an online-store are minimal.
My LHS closed 2 years ago. It used to be a fountain for building materials. Styrene in any shape, balsa wood, wire, brass tubing and rods, scenic materials of all sorts, the whole range of Preiser figures, the whole range of Revell paint - whatever you needed, he had it on stock. He closed down, when his earnings did not cover the rent anymore... He left a tremendous gap!
There is a hobby shop near me that has 2 locations. The prices are pretty much retail. I have no problem keeping them in business buying stuff thats just not worth the hassle getting it mail order. However, now days, with the stiff competition of internet and mail order companies. You have to be very foolish to continue that practice. I stopped there once about 3 months ago and picked up a few small items. However, there was a lot stuff still on the shelves that were there the last time I visited over 6 months prior to that. You cant stay in business when its so easy to order online and save a considerable amount of money in a hobby thats already getting expensive to begin with.
The hobby shop a few miles from me seems to be doing pretty good but they cover a wide variety of hobbiesas well as trains. Well. they are still in business.
Pioneer Valley Hobbies in West Springfield MA.
They bought a hobby shop in Northampton MA some years ago that was mostly trains at the time. Cannot remember the old name. I do see the old name once in a while in Northampton on the side of the old building.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
No hostile words here and I don't keep track of all the hobby discussions I have had online, all I know for a fact is that each time someone I have been in discussions with both inside forums and outside I get MR publication facts (this is directly related to them and not the hobby as a whole) and NMRA numbers which are directly related to them. Now if we could see Bachmann's numbers, we would have a clearer look at reality. Keep in mind that as one advances in this hobby, one dose not necessarily need any more stuff, now just talking me, the only things I need to finish my very large layout is some more cork, ballast and foam, everything else I have more of than I could ever use (I have over 50 unbuilt Campbell kits and countless built just as an example). I shop e-bay a lot, not because I am looking for an item (except FSM kits at bargain basement prices) but there are rare items out there I would like to acquire, just because I want them but the price has to be right. I even have enough trees (unless you think 1000 or so is not enough) for a 20x30+ L layout.
I'm at only what could be considered a very small disadvantage of not having near the 'air-time' you and others have enjoyed but that has nothing to do with the main topic issue, which you keep stalling on.
Speaking only for myself, and no offense...but I'm really not interested in your resume', which I am sure is without blemish and is irrefutable.
Once again...
I humbly suggest that you simply provide the exact data to support your factual claims so that everyone here who has doubt about your proported 'facts' can be set straight, including myself.
And...I'll thank you for your expertise.
You're the one who started this issue with the discriminative comments.
So, if everything you have claimed is factual, then you should have no problem producing the data or links or URL's to get to it, and sharing it with those who have respectfully requested it.
I'm not asking you to provide this for me. I'm asking you to provide it to those few gentlemen who previously asked where they could find it and may not be able to access it.
If you can't produce even one shred of documentation, data or any other source of information, to substantiate your 'facts' and help out another person trying to verify what you say, its pretty arrogant to accuse others of having 'baseless opinions', when you yourself - have done nothing but express your own.
As I said before - simply stating that something is a 'fact' does not make it so.
On the other hand, if you just can't help us out or you don't really know if this is information is true, then just forget about it.
IMHO I think its safe to say that the vast majority of elder model railroaders in the age brackets mentioned, can perform basic skills on a computer and for those who do not have a desire to learn then that's okay too - we can help those guys out with whatever we can - whether its a LHS wanting to track inventory, or a individual wanting to order a item on line.
That's all - I rest my case, your honor.
HeritageFleet1
Well said Allegheny...
What was an interesting premise of a discussion has turned into a whinefest of accusations and schoolyard arguments. The OP is to be commended on the topic...I enjoyed it while it lasted. Unfortunately, it seems it is time to move on.
Maybe it's me but I think the wheels are starting to come off this thread and it's becoming an exchange of hostile words.We are not here to trash anyone's opinion and as far as I have ever known opinions are your own thoughts and feelings and don't require documentation to back them up. Do we need to document or verify our love for the hobby to or explain it for that matter no of course not. Weather or not the percentages of which demographic has computers or not is actually irrelevant.If it is in fact accurate then those who do not have computers will have to find a way to get what they want. model railroader if not for nothing else are a resourceful lot and will always find a way. The subject matter of the o/p was if the LHS did not keep up with the times aka internet ordering/websites not the membership who does not have internet access or computers keeping up with the hobby. These are merely opinions and no one is either right or wrong. For ever example to support the argument there are likely equal numbers of one that can refute it. Before the thread turns into a flame war and get locked lets just say some agree to disagree.
Sheeesh. I guess the issue is that instead of looking for the dang threads ourselves we need someone to do this for us now?
I went looking for some myself and found that some are now part of the missing-----
-------
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Come on, Larry, you've been here a long time, too. Don't tell me you can't recall all the go-rounds about the state of the hobby and number of hobbyists that appeared here? Therein I repeatedly cited my sources for the information and numbers I posted. Never did anyone indicate they checked them for themselves and certainly they never offered similar but countering material of their own. Again, nothing was offered by their "opinions", which weren't based on information outside themselves.
In the past year or so I have stopped directly citing my sources in discussions involving those particular subjects for just that reason, suggesting that those truly interested refer to the extensive earlier threads. Nevertheless, all the references and citation are in those previous threads...with the info itself sometimes presented in almost as much detail as appeared in the original sources.
I have no doubts that there are a lot of seniors using computers. However, Joe Fugate acknowledged here that government figures obtained fairly recently indicated more than 1/3 of those over 60 were not on-line at all. Certainly, there are sectors from which people have come where 95% of them use computers. But there are certainly those where the numbers are 35% or less these days. As I pointed out earlier, just because "we" are on-line certainly does not automatically mean everyone is. The figures derived by the NER/NMRA from its records clearly indicate that its membership had a decidedly lower participation rate.
CNJ831 Excuse me, HeritageFleet, but just where are you coming from? I provided a complete citation for my statement regarding the majority of older members of the NER/NMRA not having and using computers...even quoting the publication's editor, himself! The only opposing material offered were totally unsubstantiated personal opinions and observations like," I know some older friends that use computers." No one offered anything else of any significance that could be verified regarding the question. Likewise, I pointed out easily locatable sources regarding the question of hobbyist numbers that APPEARED RIGHT HERE JUST LAST WEEK, as well as where to go for the MR circulation numbers. Are folks here so pathetic that they can not even look up cited info where the material is easily accessed? As I posted previously, MR has asked that I not further post their circulation numbers on this forum, so I will not provide such numbers, especially when anyone honestly interested in the question can look them up so easily for themselves. Regarding that I should be glad to provide any such numbers to bolster my statements, just what rock have you been hiding under for the past 9 years I've been posting on this forum? I have offered industry and other published figures without end regarding the hobby and hobbyists, the only one to do so, providing numbers whose sources were cited repeatedly, only to get back endless supposedly countering but really nothing more than, personal opinions! Somehow folks here feel baseless opinion consistently trumps facts if there is a disagreement. It honestly verges on the pathetic. CNJ831
Excuse me, HeritageFleet, but just where are you coming from? I provided a complete citation for my statement regarding the majority of older members of the NER/NMRA not having and using computers...even quoting the publication's editor, himself! The only opposing material offered were totally unsubstantiated personal opinions and observations like," I know some older friends that use computers." No one offered anything else of any significance that could be verified regarding the question.
Likewise, I pointed out easily locatable sources regarding the question of hobbyist numbers that APPEARED RIGHT HERE JUST LAST WEEK, as well as where to go for the MR circulation numbers. Are folks here so pathetic that they can not even look up cited info where the material is easily accessed? As I posted previously, MR has asked that I not further post their circulation numbers on this forum, so I will not provide such numbers, especially when anyone honestly interested in the question can look them up so easily for themselves.
Regarding that I should be glad to provide any such numbers to bolster my statements, just what rock have you been hiding under for the past 9 years I've been posting on this forum? I have offered industry and other published figures without end regarding the hobby and hobbyists, the only one to do so, providing numbers whose sources were cited repeatedly, only to get back endless supposedly countering but really nothing more than, personal opinions! Somehow folks here feel baseless opinion consistently trumps facts if there is a disagreement. It honestly verges on the pathetic.
CNJ831 andrechapelon Barry, it's just the usual sort of juvenile response one gets here everytime folks are presented with published info that doesn't agree with their personal, but typically baseless, opinions regarding a situation. If you don't have the ability to offer factual countering evidence...then attack the individual who did present the facts you don't like. CNJ831 OH? And just who attacked you? I certainly didn't. and I don't recall anyone else attacking you. Andre Simply the explanation for what one sees occurring here regularly when "facts" are presented. CNJ831
andrechapelon Barry, it's just the usual sort of juvenile response one gets here everytime folks are presented with published info that doesn't agree with their personal, but typically baseless, opinions regarding a situation. If you don't have the ability to offer factual countering evidence...then attack the individual who did present the facts you don't like. CNJ831 OH? And just who attacked you? I certainly didn't. and I don't recall anyone else attacking you. Andre
Barry, it's just the usual sort of juvenile response one gets here everytime folks are presented with published info that doesn't agree with their personal, but typically baseless, opinions regarding a situation. If you don't have the ability to offer factual countering evidence...then attack the individual who did present the facts you don't like.
OH? And just who attacked you? I certainly didn't. and I don't recall anyone else attacking you.
Andre
Simply the explanation for what one sees occurring here regularly when "facts" are presented.
John,Sorry,but you have never presented one link to your facts and yet you sound like you are the absolute authority in such matters and the rest of us knows nothing since we don't present the facts..
At any rate I suspect there are unknown thousands of senior computers users regardless of what you said the NMRA questionnaire revealed seeing that is a local area and national.
I can visit 12 HO clubs in a 70 mile radius-5 of those clubs is within 30 miles of Bucyrus..
Does that prove MR is popular nation wide? No..Only in that 70 mile radius.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
CNJ831Are folks here so pathetic that they can not even look up cited info where the material is easily accessed?
Yup. Especially Heritagefleet1.
(Myself included of course)
Regarding that I should be glad to provide any such numbers to bolster my statements, just what rock have you been hiding under for the past 9 years I've been posting on this forum? I have offered industry and other published facts and figures without end regarding the hobby and hobbyists, the only one to do so here, providing numbers and info whose sources were cited repeatedly, only to get back endless supposedly countering but really nothing more than, personal opinions! Somehow folks here feel baseless opinion consistently trumps facts if there is a disagreement. It honestly verges on the pathetic.
CNJ831...simply the explanation for what one sees occurring here regularly when "facts" are presented.
Gentlemen...
This forum is supposed to be for topic of discussion or debate, not a boxing match. I've been following this thread with some interest but its now becoming long in the tooth.
I don't have any dog in this hunt so I've tried to remain impartial - let's look at some simple truths:
CNJ831 seems to have stated some 'facts' that as far as I've seen, have not been yet substantiated here on this discussion.
Simply stating something as a 'fact' does not make it so.
No offense to anyone here, but it would appear that CNJ831 has 'crawfished' a little, on his willingness to provide at least a link to the information he bases his 'facts' on.
All I can tell, from what other posters have asked, is that CNJ831 just simply provide the data or information that substantiates his claim that his statistics are factual...its a simple request.
Now, so far - do I speak the truth or do I exaggerate? Good.
CNJ831...If it is as easy as you say it is - to find this data, then surely, you wouldn't have any problem locating it for all of us and posting it here for all of us to review. As you have clearly mentioned, there may be several reading this that may not know how to access this data due to a lack of computer skill.
I simple link to this data source would be sufficent - that way , we don't go against the wishes of the publisher and you'll not get into any trouble - nobody here wants that.
Providing this data should be something you are glad to assist with, as it would satisfy the doubts the others have and prove you to be correct in your claim.
If you can't produce this information, it will be a loss of credibility for you and your claim... and, as one other poster already stated: this debate is over.
You seem to be a person that knows what he's talking about and I hope that instead of 'defending' your position by stalling, that you'll provide the statistics.
looking forward to the links.
You know, I'm not really suggesting a literal piling on but there is this 'thing' about his posts that get to some people who then feel the urge to reply--suggesting that certain facts---such as those can be--are 'wrong' or muddle-headed--or somesuch thing. I have 6 people here here do not own computers--nor d othey have a desire for computers. BUT--if any of our brick and mortar LHS's take a dump then ------ they will be out of the picture as far as buying things is concerned---that would be the main concern in this case------remember---they TOO are part of the hobby market
I find it interesting to note that subscription figures are now seen as taboo to speak of-in this forum----
blownout cylinder Gee, I don't know why there is a fuss and bother over what John said here about seniors not choosing computers. I have in our neighbourhood 6 seniors who do MRR and STILL do not have a computer. So what is all the fuss about? Just because John says something here does not mean everyone has to pile on----sheeesh
Gee, I don't know why there is a fuss and bother over what John said here about seniors not choosing computers. I have in our neighbourhood 6 seniors who do MRR and STILL do not have a computer. So what is all the fuss about?
Just because John says something here does not mean everyone has to pile on----sheeesh
Where do you get "piling on" from my comments? I certainly didn't attack John, nor call his statement into question. It actually doesn't surprise me that there appears to be a disconnect between the NER and PCR of the NMRA. I was asking pastorbob about things in the Midwest.
Most of the people I know over 60 who are NOT computer literate seem to have 2 things in common. They didn't go beyond high school AND they are in generations that came before Boomers. People I know who are computer literate AND did not go to college are either in my generation (Boomer) or younger ones. The ones who are in an older generation AND are computer literate seem to be college educated. That's just anecdotal, but it wouldn't surprise me if a statistical study bore that out.
In any case, there was no "piling on".
CNJ831Seriously, both are easily enough located, the first on here and the other in the January issue of MR. Just look them up as I did. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes time to do so. In addition, the editor of MR has asked me not to cite their circulation figures here anymore. CNJ831
Seriously, both are easily enough located, the first on here and the other in the January issue of MR. Just look them up as I did. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes time to do so. In addition, the editor of MR has asked me not to cite their circulation figures here anymore.
As rrebel has quoted, unless you can come up with those figures this debate is over.
Yes, keeping up with the times i.e. the internet, is important. Discounts are important as is location. But not always just that simple. Customers. Like the upstart boom in the fifties, the opposite is happening now in places. People are becoming more and more busy and their free time is limited. There are other things that need to be done other than Model Railroading, but we won't mention them here as I'm sure our significant others are constantly reminding us. If the customers aren't walking through the door enough, the obvious happens. I myself, like many others, have gotten extremely busy with little free time and the free time I do have is spent visiting with my wife and catching up on what she's been doing so I at least have an idea what she's talking about during those moments of "maybe I shouldn't have said, or done that". Little time for MRR. I do have some time but not much. This effects my visits to my FLHS. I have gone from once or twice at least every two weeks to once in the last three months. Between work and money, i just haven't had the time or the need for stuff. Many folks are turning to the internet for convenience. Yes I can order at midnight, go about my merry way and soon a box will show up on the door step with my goodies and then a trip to the basement to store them until I can get in there, but I prefer my LHS for many reasons, but that's me and I realize I'm lucky to have one (actually two) within abou 20 miles of me. Yes it would be much more convenient for the stuff not in stock to be sent to me to save another trip, but I'm not going to have the NMRA or MR come by anytime soon, nor is the layout going to explode if I wait. And when I do walk through the door, the fellow behind the counter is much happier to see me than the computer screen.
Problem with the internet is saturation. Just because you sell over the internet and give discounts doesn't mean you will survive. You have a better chance, but no guarantee. There are still a finite amount of people involved in hobbies that benefit from a hobby shop. Rotating, but finite. Problem is the Walmarts of the internet and the people who swear by them. Not knocking them, because it's not their fault they are so big or popular. It's ours. They took a chance and skimmed prices so customers would buy from them rather than the competition and decided to run their customer service to satisfy the customer, the good old fashioned way of business, it works and people came. Now selling volume makes up for individual profit on an item. If you don't have the profit to eat yourself, then why be in business. Many still can't compete.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
andrechapelon pastorbob CNJ831 There remains a distinct faction within the hobby, made up mostly of the senior citizen hobbyists, that are not (and never will be) computer-savvy and who must largely deal face-to-face with real hobby shops to continue in the hobby. But the rest of us are almost universally bargain hunters for one reason or another who scan the Internet "shops" for the lowest possible prices. This is affectively shutting out the brick-and-mortar examples who must sell at higher prices (unless they are giants like Train World) just to keep the doors open. In the end, this second group's approach will unquestionably win out, eliminating many of the older Baby Boomers from the hobby and bringing about the total demise of all but a select few of the brick-and-mortar railroad hobby shops well before the end of this decade. CNJ831 I resemble that comment about the old people. I am 74, use the internet every day and do a lot of business on it. Of course, in my younger years I was sent to IBM school, taught programming, systems design, etc. and used that knowledge to hold high paying jobs while I pastored small churches that couldn't afford to pay a full time pastor. But, I still teach seniors how to use the computer and many of them pick it up and do quite well with it. I would guess computer dummies exist in every age group, so you can't blame one segment of society for the failure of the hobby shop. Bob You're not the only auld phart to use a computer. My 91 year old mother has been computer literate since at least the mid '80's and ran a computer based book keeping service for a number of years. Certainly all her children (ranging in age from 56 to 64) are computer literate. Her 3 brothers (all deceased now) used computers and, in fact, one of them had a blog up until a couple of months before his death at the age of 89. I can only think of two people I know over the age of 60 who are NOT computer literate and I know a number of superannuated retreads both within and outside the hobby. Don't know why over half the folks in the NER of the NMRA wouldn't be computer literate as insisted on by CNJ. The folks in the Pacific Coast Region of the NMRA seem to be pretty computer savvy as a rule. You're from the Midwest. How are things there? Amdre
pastorbob CNJ831 There remains a distinct faction within the hobby, made up mostly of the senior citizen hobbyists, that are not (and never will be) computer-savvy and who must largely deal face-to-face with real hobby shops to continue in the hobby. But the rest of us are almost universally bargain hunters for one reason or another who scan the Internet "shops" for the lowest possible prices. This is affectively shutting out the brick-and-mortar examples who must sell at higher prices (unless they are giants like Train World) just to keep the doors open. In the end, this second group's approach will unquestionably win out, eliminating many of the older Baby Boomers from the hobby and bringing about the total demise of all but a select few of the brick-and-mortar railroad hobby shops well before the end of this decade. CNJ831 I resemble that comment about the old people. I am 74, use the internet every day and do a lot of business on it. Of course, in my younger years I was sent to IBM school, taught programming, systems design, etc. and used that knowledge to hold high paying jobs while I pastored small churches that couldn't afford to pay a full time pastor. But, I still teach seniors how to use the computer and many of them pick it up and do quite well with it. I would guess computer dummies exist in every age group, so you can't blame one segment of society for the failure of the hobby shop. Bob
CNJ831 There remains a distinct faction within the hobby, made up mostly of the senior citizen hobbyists, that are not (and never will be) computer-savvy and who must largely deal face-to-face with real hobby shops to continue in the hobby. But the rest of us are almost universally bargain hunters for one reason or another who scan the Internet "shops" for the lowest possible prices. This is affectively shutting out the brick-and-mortar examples who must sell at higher prices (unless they are giants like Train World) just to keep the doors open. In the end, this second group's approach will unquestionably win out, eliminating many of the older Baby Boomers from the hobby and bringing about the total demise of all but a select few of the brick-and-mortar railroad hobby shops well before the end of this decade. CNJ831
There remains a distinct faction within the hobby, made up mostly of the senior citizen hobbyists, that are not (and never will be) computer-savvy and who must largely deal face-to-face with real hobby shops to continue in the hobby. But the rest of us are almost universally bargain hunters for one reason or another who scan the Internet "shops" for the lowest possible prices. This is affectively shutting out the brick-and-mortar examples who must sell at higher prices (unless they are giants like Train World) just to keep the doors open. In the end, this second group's approach will unquestionably win out, eliminating many of the older Baby Boomers from the hobby and bringing about the total demise of all but a select few of the brick-and-mortar railroad hobby shops well before the end of this decade.
I resemble that comment about the old people. I am 74, use the internet every day and do a lot of business on it. Of course, in my younger years I was sent to IBM school, taught programming, systems design, etc. and used that knowledge to hold high paying jobs while I pastored small churches that couldn't afford to pay a full time pastor. But, I still teach seniors how to use the computer and many of them pick it up and do quite well with it. I would guess computer dummies exist in every age group, so you can't blame one segment of society for the failure of the hobby shop.
Bob
You're not the only auld phart to use a computer. My 91 year old mother has been computer literate since at least the mid '80's and ran a computer based book keeping service for a number of years. Certainly all her children (ranging in age from 56 to 64) are computer literate. Her 3 brothers (all deceased now) used computers and, in fact, one of them had a blog up until a couple of months before his death at the age of 89. I can only think of two people I know over the age of 60 who are NOT computer literate and I know a number of superannuated retreads both within and outside the hobby.
Don't know why over half the folks in the NER of the NMRA wouldn't be computer literate as insisted on by CNJ. The folks in the Pacific Coast Region of the NMRA seem to be pretty computer savvy as a rule. You're from the Midwest. How are things there?
Amdre
CNJ831 rrebell One must remember too that the NMRA as well as Model Railroader cater to a certain demographic and so only represent a small portion of the hobby. Of the hobbyist I know only 10% subscribe to MR and even a smaller segment are NMRA. No wonder they think the hobby is dying! Precisely what does that have to do with the matter? The fact is that the NMRA represents only 8% of those claiming to be model railroaders, but on average they represent much more skilled hobbyists than the general run of modelers. Likewise, in numbers they are unquestionably more numerous than hobbyists under 25 today. The fact that many of them are not computer literate does not make them count any less in any off-line poll, or survey. Incidentally, your implication that only a tiny faction of actual hobbyists read MR these days verges on the laughable. Read the article published in association with the upcoming NMRA convention that appeared on this forum a week or so ago with an industry figure for how many model railroaders there are, then look up MR's circulation figures. CNJ831
rrebell One must remember too that the NMRA as well as Model Railroader cater to a certain demographic and so only represent a small portion of the hobby. Of the hobbyist I know only 10% subscribe to MR and even a smaller segment are NMRA. No wonder they think the hobby is dying!
One must remember too that the NMRA as well as Model Railroader cater to a certain demographic and so only represent a small portion of the hobby. Of the hobbyist I know only 10% subscribe to MR and even a smaller segment are NMRA. No wonder they think the hobby is dying!
Precisely what does that have to do with the matter? The fact is that the NMRA represents only 8% of those claiming to be model railroaders, but on average they represent much more skilled hobbyists than the general run of modelers. Likewise, in numbers they are unquestionably more numerous than hobbyists under 25 today. The fact that many of them are not computer literate does not make them count any less in any off-line poll, or survey.
Incidentally, your implication that only a tiny faction of actual hobbyists read MR these days verges on the laughable. Read the article published in association with the upcoming NMRA convention that appeared on this forum a week or so ago with an industry figure for how many model railroaders there are, then look up MR's circulation figures.
Driline CNJ831 Read the article published in association with the upcoming NMRA convention that appeared on this forum a week or so ago with an industry figure for how many model railroaders there are, then look up MR's circulation figures. CNJ831 Can you post those figures again here?
CNJ831 Read the article published in association with the upcoming NMRA convention that appeared on this forum a week or so ago with an industry figure for how many model railroaders there are, then look up MR's circulation figures. CNJ831
Read the article published in association with the upcoming NMRA convention that appeared on this forum a week or so ago with an industry figure for how many model railroaders there are, then look up MR's circulation figures.
Can you post those figures again here?
CNJ831Read the article published in association with the upcoming NMRA convention that appeared on this forum a week or so ago with an industry figure for how many model railroaders there are, then look up MR's circulation figures. CNJ831