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Proto USRA 0-8-0 conversion into 2-8-0

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Posted by xdford on Monday, June 21, 2010 3:28 PM

 

Such a task must be possible. I have two Proto 0-8-0's and while they are Canadian or Canadian intended, I have heard of South Australian modelers converting them into 700 class 2-8-2's and I must admit "seeing" them as being similar to 700's when I run mine as I have vague memories of them... I live in Victoria now . I have not actually seen any of these models.

The 700's were a USRA like copy actually built in England to US designs in the 1920's and a picture  can be found at http://www.natrailmuseum.org.au/rollingstockexhibit.php?exhibitID=32

 Good luck with your project idea,

 

Regards

Trevor www.xdford.digitalzones.com for your interest

 

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Posted by back_pack on Monday, June 21, 2010 12:47 PM

 

Thanks for the clarifications, Wayne. I'm looking at the Bowser lead truck assembly (#950), and when I get my model (which I bought today), I'll do some measuring to see where I need to drill for the screw. Hopefully it is someplace 'drillable'... Thank you for your help, I'll be using your photo as a guide for this conversion!
Route Your Freight Via Ahnapee & Western Railway The Rail-Water Route
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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, June 21, 2010 11:18 AM

There is no "L-shaped" cut:  the outline in blue is of the stock parts, while the filler pieces, in red, are simply pieces of sheet styrene, in various thicknesses, cemented together in order to follow the profile of the original pieces.  You're correct about the overlap, as it's meant to add strength to the assembly.  I'm not sure of the length increase (the loco is back together and on the layout) but it's probably around three feet.  There's no reason, though, why it couldn't be longer, and it should be even stronger, as the top filler piece will then overlap the lower ones.

The suggested truck-mounting location is the front end of the cover for the drivers - I didn't remove it, but there should be room inside for a block of brass or styrene to allow for a more solid attachment of the lead truck.

Wayne

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Posted by back_pack on Monday, June 21, 2010 7:55 AM

 

Thanks, Wayne! That is nice clean work. How far forward did you need to move the pilot? It looks like about 3' or so?

I'm not sure how you made that horizontal cut, but the L-shape cut looks like it provides a lot of strength. I'll wait to get my model, but the area that you ID with the arrow for possible mounting of a pilot truck looks like it might be part of the gear box or axle housing...I'll figure out some way to get a truck in there. Thanks for the photos.

Route Your Freight Via Ahnapee & Western Railway The Rail-Water Route
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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, June 21, 2010 3:57 AM

As promised, a look at the extended front frame of the USRA 0-8-0.  The parts outlined in red are sheet styrene, cemented to the pilot to increase the frame's length.  The whole assembly is attached to the main frame/steam chest area by a 2-56 brass screw.  The bright blue lines delineate the mating surfaces of the original frame and pilot, showing the length of the extension.  

To mount a lead truck, you may be able to drill and tap the area, indicated by the arrow, for a screw, but the clearances between the screw's head and the rail head could be tight.

Wayne

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Posted by rogertra on Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:04 PM
Yes. Anything is possible, the old "There's a prototype for everything" excuse for running, building, or doing something completely out of the ordinary and then trying to justify it. While there may be "A prototype for everything" a realistic model railroad does what is common, not out of the ordinary. Using 0-6-0 switchers as power on a mixed is only realistic if you are modelling the Bay Point & Clayton Roalroad before it closed in 1946. If not, it will look just plain odd and unrealistic, no matter what the Bay Point & Clayton Roalroad happened to do.

Cheers

Roger T.

Home of the late Great Eastern Railway see: - http://www.greateasternrailway.com

For more photos of the late GER see: - http://s94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/rogertra/Great_Eastern/

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Posted by doctorwayne on Sunday, June 20, 2010 3:55 PM

back_pack

Wayne, how did you go about extending the frame/pilot deck? Like you mentioned, I'm particularly interested to know if there is a spot on the frame where I could mount the pilot truck.

 

Sorry, but I don't recall the exact procedure.  I'll pull it apart later and have a look to jog my memory, then let you know.  I don't recall it as being too difficult, though.  Building the new pilot was a more onerous task.

To mount a lead truck, you may be able to use a different screw where the current one passes through the steam chest and into the smokebox.  I'll take a look at that area, too.

Wayne

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Posted by back_pack on Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:49 PM

Here is the locomotive in question: http://www.greenbayroute.com/1947diagram11.htm  (KGB&W 45, then KGB&W 398, then A&W 261, then DC&S 261) and her sister 399 http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0202/gbw399.jpg 

2-8-0 with 51" drivers and 2 sand domes...like I said, reasonably close which is why I'm looking at the USRA 0-8-0 as the starting point.  My prototype was a 34 mile long branch off the GB&W...with a max speed of 30 mph, so low speed is not a concern.

Wayne, how did you go about extending the frame/pilot deck? Like you mentioned, I'm particularly interested to know if there is a spot on the frame where I could mount the pilot truck.

Route Your Freight Via Ahnapee & Western Railway The Rail-Water Route
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Posted by markpierce on Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:45 PM

"My" local common-carrier shortline, the Bay Point & Clayton Roalroad (closed in 1946) ran 8 miles between Bay Point and Concord, CA.  Its two road engines were unmodified 0-6-0 switchers used to pull scheduled mixed passenger/freight trains.  So, depending on circumstances, most anything is possible.

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Posted by markpierce on Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:31 PM

Keep in mind that the BC&G was an 18-mile industrial railroad where slow speed was good enough. 

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Posted by hminky on Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:15 PM

climaxpwr

Actualy the drivers are not to small, look into the one Buffalo Creek and Gauley 2-8-0, it was a conversion from a USRA 0-8-0 and it had small drivers.  A low drivered 2-8-0 might be perfect for a short line with slow track speeds and rough track work.  I say go for it, the real railroads did the same thing, espicaly the short lines with hand me down locomotives.    Mike

 

 

 BC&G #14 from:

http://www.buffalocreekandgauley.com/LOCOMOTIVES/No14/Loco14.html

Brook Stover's great BC&G site:

http://www.buffalocreekandgauley.com/index.html

Don't listen to the un-informed. There is lot's of stuff on the net, ya just gotta look for it!!!

Harold

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Posted by markpierce on Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:14 PM

Another problem with converting a typical switcher to a road engine.  Switchers weren't designed to travel at sustained higher speeds and so they typically had smaller fireboxes than road engines.  Switchers did a lot of stop-and-go movements and so didn't need the larger steaming capacity of a road engine.  Therefore, in a long-distance run the switcher couldn't sustain higher speeds regardless of driver diameter or the addition of guiding wheels because it couldn't produce the steam necessary.

Mark

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Posted by rdgk1se3019 on Sunday, June 20, 2010 11:37 AM

 If you do manage a conversion.......take pics and post them here.....I for one would like to see you do it......and might be interested in doing a conversion myself.

Dennis Blank Jr.

CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad

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Posted by CNJ831 on Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:35 AM

In light some of the posts here, let me point out that one of the most common pitfalls in the hobby is hobbyists attempting to justify the rare, or unique, as commonplace and logical on their model railroads. Thus, we see huge articulateds operating on what at best might be physically believable as nothing more than a very minor shortline; a motivepower roster composed largely of oddball/one-of-a-kind locomotives that aren't truly representative of any specific purpose, era, or region; or a widely diverse, one-of-each-and-every-wheel-arrangement, roster instead of something representative of necessity for a real railroad.

While this is a hobby that appeals to a diverse range of individual interests, the talk on this and other forums, as well as in the magazines today, indicates it is progressing ever closer to prototype fidelity. So one does at some point need to make a decision as to whether they are creating a "model railroad/model of a railroad", or just wish to have an eclectic bunch of trains running around on a scenicked board. It is a choice ever hobbyist must make at some point...even if it is "your layout". Wink 

CNJ831 

 

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:35 AM

More than a few turn-of-the-(20th)century 2-8-0s had two sand domes, since they were meant to operate on branch lines where turning facilities were conspicuous by their absence.  As in the USRA design, the rear dome was rigged to deposit sand behind the rear drivers for reverse moves.

In order to make the pilot truck installation convincing, the front of the frame and the pilot deck should be extended.  The alternative is to use a rollerskate wheel set for the pilot.  In any event, you are looking at a very low speed locomotive.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by climaxpwr on Saturday, June 19, 2010 11:58 PM

Actualy the drivers are not to small, look into the one Buffalo Creek and Gauley 2-8-0, it was a conversion from a USRA 0-8-0 and it had small drivers.  A low drivered 2-8-0 might be perfect for a short line with slow track speeds and rough track work.  I say go for it, the real railroads did the same thing, espicaly the short lines with hand me down locomotives.    Mike

LHS mechanic and geniune train and antique garden tractor nut case! 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Saturday, June 19, 2010 7:46 PM

back_pack

Gents (and ladies),

 Has anyone tried to convert an HO Scale Proto 2000 0-8-0 into a 2-8-0 by adding a pilot truck? The drivers are a bit too far forward for the conversion, but the lines of the boiler are really close to a Consolidation that my shortline ran in the 1950-era. Just wondering how it looks/runs...

Andy L.

 

If it's close in appearance to your prototype, it could certainly be done, although the 51" drivers, as noted, are fairly small for a road engine, especially one that would have such a burly appearance.  It's relatively easy to lengthen the front of the 0-8-0's frame, as I did on the loco shown below in order to accommodate the CNR-style front end, but you may have difficulty finding a suitable mounting point from which the lead truck can pivot.

If you want a good 2-8-0, why not start with the Bachmann model?

Most of the details can be easily removed and replaced with parts more suited to your prototype:

Wayne

 

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Posted by markpierce on Saturday, June 19, 2010 5:56 PM

CNJ831

 Secondly, the boiler has two sand domes, one forward and one to the rear on the boiler, which although pretty much a standard on yard switchers would be a rather unconventional situation on any road engine.

... with the particular exception of articulated locomotives having multiple sets of drivers.

Mark

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Posted by CNJ831 on Saturday, June 19, 2010 4:34 PM

Actually, Andy, the Proto 2000 doesn't lend itself realistically to such a conversion.

First off, the size of the drivers is too small to make a truly affective road locomotive. Secondly, the boiler has two sand domes, one forward and one to the rear on the boiler, which although pretty much a standard on yard switchers would be a rather unconventional situation on any road engine. Then, too, pivoting space for any lead truck is seriously limited by the steam chests, likely forcing the engine to operate only on quite wide radius curves.

While it was not uncommon in the age of steam to convert a 2-8-0 road engine to an 0-8-0 yard hog, attempting to go the other way would be regarded as unusual, at the very least. 

CNJ831

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Proto USRA 0-8-0 conversion into 2-8-0
Posted by back_pack on Saturday, June 19, 2010 3:13 PM

Gents (and ladies),

 Has anyone tried to convert an HO Scale Proto 2000 0-8-0 into a 2-8-0 by adding a pilot truck? The drivers are a bit too far forward for the conversion, but the lines of the boiler are really close to a Consolidation that my shortline ran in the 1950-era. Just wondering how it looks/runs...

Andy L.

Tags: Proto 2000
Route Your Freight Via Ahnapee & Western Railway The Rail-Water Route

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