It's been a long while since Kato has released a new HO diesel locomotive and I'm wondering if they are still active in HO.
I don't know, but I'll offer a few thoughts:
First, Kato has always been an N scale company that has just dabbled in HO or manufactured HO for others.
Given the state of the economy, the number of other players in HO, and with MTH and BLI busy playing "my loco is better than yours", who in their right mind would expand their HO line when they are already well established in N scale?
They are a diesel manufacturer, what has not been done, several times, that there is a known market for? My railroad has all the diesels it needs and if I wanted more there are plenty good ones out there of every size, shape, era and prototype.
If there are two or more living brain cells at Kato, they will say goodbye to HO, at least for a while.
But what do I know......
Sheldon
From Kato's web site http://www.katousa.com/HO/locomotive.html
Current Models:
North American Locomotives
EMD F40PH
EMD SD38-2
EMD SD40-2 Mid Production
EMD SD45
EMD SD70MAC
EMD SD90/43MAC
GE AC4400CW
GE C44-9W
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I don't know, but I'll offer a few thoughts: First, Kato has always been an N scale company that has just dabbled in HO or manufactured HO for others. Given the state of the economy, the number of other players in HO, and with MTH and BLI busy playing "my loco is better than yours", who in their right mind would expand their HO line when they are already well established in N scale? They are a diesel manufacturer, what has not been done, several times, that there is a known market for? My railroad has all the diesels it needs and if I wanted more there are plenty good ones out there of every size, shape, era and prototype. If there are two or more living brain cells at Kato, they will say goodbye to HO, at least for a while. But what do I know...... Sheldon
I think your analysis of this situation is spot on. I couldn't agree more.
Pathfinder From Kato's web site http://www.katousa.com/HO/locomotive.html Current Models: North American Locomotives EMD F40PH EMD SD38-2 EMD SD40-2 Mid Production EMD SD45 EMD SD70MAC EMD SD90/43MAC GE AC4400CW GE C44-9W So it looks like they are still active to me.
BdewoodyYes but all of these have been out for years and probably stock piled, Active to me means producing something new occasionally.
What with everyone going the pre-order route this may be the reason you're not seeing any new ones coming out in HO scale. The stockpile must've been pretty large for them to out this long.
Sheldon: My guess is if there are any new locomotives coming out it will be through a pre-order as well.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
One must appreciate as well that Kato largest market, by far, is their domestic one and in Japan N-gauge is definitely king. Kato is totally dominant in Japan and, as outlined by some others here, would undoubtedly consider it very foolish to attempt to compete in a major way in the American HO market that is so heavily influenced at the moment by the almost monthly releases of new locomotives by MTH and BLI.
For Kato, it's good business sense to pretty much stay out of the American HO market, especially with conditions being what they are in the hobby and economically currently and they probably will.
CNJ831
I'm drawing a blank but wasn't their last release canceled because of a broken mold about 6-8 months ago? Don't remember what it was supposed to be.
Edit: Found it. I thought is was much longer ago than that. Maybe the official notice was delayed.
http://www.katousa.com/HO/C44-9W/CNW-Cancellation.html
Springfield PA
Important notification about the HO C44-9W "Dynamic Duo"
April 8th, 2010
We regret to inform you that Kato USA unfortunately must cancel the production of items 37-6627 and 37-6628 (The HO scale C&NW “Dynamic Duo” locomotives) and the associated “Sound and DCC equipped” models.
When it was conceived, the project was intended to use the molds from our original release of the HO C44-9W, which had the correct walkway with low ditch lights and would have only needed minor retooling to accurately represent these locomotives. However these molds have irreparably been damaged, and with the only alternative being the use of the newer high mount ditch light shells, we did not feel we could make a model at a level of quality or accuracy that would satisfy HO modelers.
We understand and share your disappointment at this cancellation. We at Kato USA are looking to improve and increase our production of HO products in the future so that we can continue to support the HO market.
We hope that you can accept our sincerest apologies in this matter.
Regards, The Staff of Kato USA
I've been wondering the same thing, and lamenting the lack of new Kato releases in HO locos. The real reasons behind it are open to speculation however. Even while accepting that the bulk of their business is N, I would suspect that their HO business has historically been pretty robust. Every time somebody on this forum asks about the relative quality of diesels, Kato is ranked right up there at the top. So - just because other companies also make similar models, and just because HO isn't the bulk of their business doesn't mean that it hasn't been profitable. I may be wrong, but they seem to have gone into HO hibernation long before the recent economic downturn. Without going back and looking at the historical trends my guess is that it may have a lot to do with foreign exchange on the one hand (weak US dollar), and the fact that N gauge sells for similar prices as HO but with lower material costs on the other.
Either way, I hope they stay in the game - I have a lot of their product, and love it. Cheers.
It has been said before, but probably bears repeating. Kato is a JAPANESE company that caters to a JAPANESE market and occasionally throws a few crumbs to the continent on the other side of the International Date Line. With the generally soft economy, the senior management is probably in the 'hunker down and wait this out' mode.
I'm sure that if someone from this side of the Pacific showed up in Kato's Tokyo office with a check for enough up-front money to pay for molds and all the fixed and variable expenses of an entire production run of (fill in your favorite prototype here) plus the usual profit, Kato would get that run out the door as fast as is humanly possible. Then it would be that person's problem to sell enough units at enough markup to cover their (not Kato's) investment.
Then there's the question of market size. I would estimate that there are more potential customers for Kato products in Tokyo than there are in all of North America, and Tokyo is not Japan's only major city. North American prototype modelers, on a percentage basis, are probably a little better represented in Japan than Japanese rail modelers are in North America - but a lot of those North American prototypes are locomotives built in the US and exported to Japan in the 19th and early 20th century. The reverse flow of Japanese full-scale rail products coming to the Americas is a recent phenomenon that has already generated some demand for models of same among the small minority of modelers who include commuter rail in their modeling.
Kato's most recent ads in Tetsudo Mokei Shumi all feature new products in N scale - including several I would love to have in HOj. Oh, well...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
As far as N Scale Kato has release several new products including over the last 2 years to include the El-Cap and the Broadway Limited with a beautiful GG1 but,N Scale is dominated by Atlas.
As far as HO..Was Kato all that interested? I think not seeing they could have became a heavy hitter but,choose not to.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Bob...All...
The answer is: Yes ...and No.
Kato has been absent from the HO Locomotive market for several years now and the most recent announcement of the C&NW C44-9W 'Dynamic Duo' now has been cancelled ,supposedly due to older tooling that has been 'irreparably damaged'.
I spoke to Leon at Kato about 6 months ago and when I asked him about the HO future of Kato, his reply was that there had been discussion about doing a new model - the SD70 ACe - in HO scale, but when Athearn announced that they were doing that model and MTH had already tooled for an HO production model with Sound and DCC capability already onboard for under 250.00, the decision had been made to drop the plan.
More recently I had an email encounter with Michael from Kato in response to a prior email inquiry into why there had been an absenece of HO products.
His response was almost retalitory in tone - and he stated that due to the economic climate and the dollar/ yen exchange rate, that most modellers would not be willing to pay between $200-$300 for a HO Kato engine with no sound or DCC. And then, proceeded to ask me if I was willing to. My response was that based on Ebay auctions, many people are paying just that for older run locomotives...its supply and demand.
Leon has made the arguement in the past that Kato USA has offered models in HO in the past and they have NOT sold well --- inventories of HO models apparently stack up in the warehouse and dealers don't order them because the retail prices are no longer competitive against other manufacturers.
Kato, being a Japanese company, is in a tough market against the Chinese builders.
I made a suggestionthat Kato should consider re-running the AC4400CW's in new Schemes and road #s
An example that I would go for would be the BNSF with noew numbers or maybe a Swoosh paint scheme. AND... the Union Pacific with Yellow frame stripes and new number options.
The SD40-2 could be offered on many different road names and #s with variations.
This is just to name a few.
Since the tooling is already done this would save a lot of production cost and make the modes more attractive to exisiting kato buyers. This may have been the intention of KATO with the C&NW models.
We'll never know now. If the tooling is lost, I predict the existing 44-9W models will skyrocket in price as the existing models become harder to find.
Michael DID state that KATO DOES have interest in continuing to offer HO scale products and 'are looking at every possible measure in which they(Kato) can offer new products to the HO modeler at a competitive price'.
In keeping with that, Kato has just released a new set of road #s for the TTX and BNSF Maxi Well cars, a new set of #s for the EMP container sets, along with a new set of HO crew figures which are very nice.
Kato has the designs and production capabilities to produce many new HO products, many which have already been offered in N scale. It will be awhile before we most likey see a new HO locomotive, only because I believe the economic climate will prevent any ambitous production of any NEW HO model - I could be wrong. Based on the quality of their products - many of which I own, I sincerely hope I am.
HeritageFleet1
So based on the comments above it seems safe to say that Kato will not be releasing any NEW HO scale locomotives for the forseeable future. Their SD 40 and 40-2 are nice running locos but the tooling is now outdated and just putting some new paint schemes on them won't cause me to spend any money
Hi Bob...
I don't know about the toolling being 'out-dated' on the SD40-2. With very little effort, many different variations could be offered. The thing that hurt that model was the PATHETIC led lighting. you 'd have to view the model in the dark just to see if the lights were on. The ORANGE lighting just was not a good thing. Tsunami offers replacement boards now that have improved Sunny White LEDs but i don't know if they have one for the SD40-2 yet.
Other than the lighting, I had no quabbles with this model.
One thing I'll interject here is that Kato seems to be a very traditional (conservative) company. This could have a big affect on how a model is made or offered.
It is ashame that HO has lost Kato largely due to the production costs in Japan vs, those from Hong Kong. But that could be changing sooner than we think - the chinese manufacturers are catching on and raising thier prices more and more - it will not be long before paying $200 -$300 for a locomotive will be commonplace. With technology advances offering the HO modeler more and more features, this will be inevitable.
My fear is that this will discourage new modelers from joining in the hobby and eventually do harm to the industry.
I thank God that I have the vast bulk of my locomotive roster completed(allthough this always will be changing too)and the same for rolling stock.
I don't mind spending more for a locomotive if it is realistic, quality built and smooth running -but my budget will only handle so much.
I have started to buy duplicate Kato engines off the interent at reasonable prices as a buffer against future availability...worst case scenario, I can adapt these to me fleet if need be.
Good Luck with yours,
Kato has never been a powerhouse in the HO world. If only because they didn't stand out as much from the crowd as they did in N-scale.
In N-scale, 15-20 years ago, you had Kato, you had Atlas that was actually made by Kato and you had a bunch of stuff that wasn't even close to as good in terms of running performance.
In HO, Athearn has, since the 80s, offered a baseline product that was superior to the baseline in N-scale.
More importantly, it's easy to forget that Kato Really stumbled on their initial SD40-2 release which had a horrible pickup mechanism. There was simply no reason to buy that model unless you enjoyed pain and suffering.That stumble cost them money in the early part of this decade that they've had to recoup.
And the fact was that there were other options out there for that model. And in fact for all of Kato's models, even dating back to the 90s.
Sure, their Dash 9 is nicer, but Athearn had one in the blue box line for much less. If all you make is something that other companies make...and Athearn was NOT limited run, then you're dividing up the pie.
And finally and perhaps most importantly, Us Gaijin think about the economic downturn being since 2008, but Japan has been having issues since the 1990s with the lost decade. So being from Japan is probably a bad thing for Kato.
I have four Kato locomotives. Two GP35's, a SD45 and a SD40. Three of the four have been converted via Cannon & Co. to Southern high hood units and the fourth (the SD40) is waiting. I like them all and they are very smooth runners. Their lack of see through fans and grills e\are what I referred to as being out of date. None of the details I had to add were major other than the high hood. They run well with my Atlas, Athearn and P2K locos. Depending on the model I would consider buying Kato again but I just don't have any need for what they are currently offering.
Roger that, Bob.
You're right about the fans. most models even in Atherans RTR catagory, have the see thru fans in most cases.
It's a problem when you want to add sound - particularly to an EMD unit(the GE's are an easy fix for sound). There's really no outlet for the sound to escape through, unless you're willing to 'core-out' the molded in ones and use a etched matel detail replacement - nobody I know of does a fan for the SD90/43.
So, I have to use another technique that gets the fidelity of sound out I want(another topic).
Still, at the time, the Kato fan detail was the best there was to offer for a while.
It dosen't bother me that they lack the see-thru feature though- the rest of the model is more than forgiving for that.
The only locomotive that they did that's not available from anyone else is the SD38-2. I have two in EJ&E of course and the can be equipped with sound the speaker would mount in the fuel tank. They are nice running locos and fairly well detailed.
Dan Metzger
Two of my best runners are the two KATO RS-2's I bought years ago when they were still dabling in HO. Wish I had bought a few more now. They do make a good running diesel.
dm9538 The only locomotive that they did that's not available from anyone else is the SD38-2. I have two in EJ&E of course and the can be equipped with sound the speaker would mount in the fuel tank. They are nice running locos and fairly well detailed.
And the 90MAC. I know a BUNCH of people who are looking iunder rock and tree for them so we cn paint up INRD 9000-9008(?) And these are people who aren;t INRD modelers, the INRD 90s are just GORGEOUS locomotives. And only ones we know of are Kato's.
-Morgan
I'm glad I have a drawer full of Katos; a bunch of 70MACs and 2 90MACs. (One is undec as are a couple of the 70MACs) All purchased on ebay some time ago.
I wish I could find some F40PHs; I've seen 2 in a hobby shop so far but the price is sky high ($300) for a DC locomotive.
I've not gotten to the point of installing sound in my locomotive fleet, as I'm still in the building stages for the layout right now, but it will be worth the trouble to install sound into Katos, as mechanically, they are top of the line.
And since they're standard Q fans, there should be an available aftermarket see through upgrade for them. Further, Rail Power had a 90MAC shell, and Arrow Hobby still has some in stock. More importantly, that means Athearn has molds to build from.
YoHo1975On the SD90s. I thought Phase 1 H-macs and by extension 9043 macs used the standard 48" Q-fan as seen on all emds since the 80s. It wasn't until Phase 2 H-macs and the 70ACe/M-2 that the 2 larger fans became standard. And since they're standard Q fans, there should be an available aftermarket see through upgrade for them. Further, Rail Power had a 90MAC shell, and Arrow Hobby still has some in stock. More importantly, that means Athearn has molds to build from.
I was going to core-out the fans on the 90/43 SD90 's I have, for the purpose of allowing sound to exit from a speaker mounted in the long hood. If you have a part number for these, I prefer the plastic ones.
Please let me know. My LHS did not have anything close, and I didn't see a listing for it in Walthers catalogue... I may have simply overlooked it.
Thanks
Rick
YoHo1975Further, Rail Power had a 90MAC shell, and Arrow Hobby still has some in stock. More importantly, that means Athearn has molds to build from.
I seem to remember Athearn saying they had no plans for an SD90MAC when they bought RPP. I hope they'll change their minds, because although they're nice, the Kato SD90 is kind of outdated and has some noticably out of scale details (thick handrails and windshield wipers, and undersized grab irons to name a few). Athearn could make one amazing SD90, especially as a Genesis model.
_________________________________________________________________
tomikawaTTIt has been said before, but probably bears repeating. Kato is a JAPANESE company that caters to a JAPANESE market and occasionally throws a few crumbs to the continent on the other side of the International Date Line. With the generally soft economy, the senior management is probably in the 'hunker down and wait this out' mode.
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
Darth Santa FeI seem to remember Athearn saying they had no plans for an SD90MAC when they bought RPP. I hope they'll change their minds
That's interesting. I hope so too. They've done almost EVERY engine the INRD has ever run, sans the GP7 I believe, so there is road precedent for doing thr 90MAC.
Just last nihgt, I did find a Kato 90 for US$145 in Canada, I have no idea what shipping is, I understand that it's horrendous going one way, and normal the other, I just don't recall which is which.
In looking at the RPP on Arrow Hobbies, The price isn't too different by the time I get to all the parts for a whole engine. With the frame, repower, trucks, it came out about 140. But I didn't see anything on the RPP shell that said it was really that much better than Kato's.
Apparently Athearn used to sell the Q-fans from their Genesis SD70M as a separate part, but it's unclear if Horizon is still doing this. Consensus seems to be that this is the best Q-fan out there and it's see through. So I'd look for that first and then at other options. Overland made some in brass, Detail Associates had some though not see through I don't think. Smokey Valley made them, those were panned (pun not intended).
Flashwave In looking at the RPP on Arrow Hobbies, The price isn't too different by the time I get to all the parts for a whole engine. With the frame, repower, trucks, it came out about 140. But I didn't see anything on the RPP shell that said it was really that much better than Kato's.
Athearn's RPP releases have included a lot of upgrades since they bought them.