I've been pondering this for some time and maybe someone here can steer me straight.
I've been working on this old Roundhouse Pennsy 2-8-0 kit for some time and am coming down the home stretch. The locomotive as I am building it is for my freelanced railroad so it's losing its Pennsy identity. Among the changes are: a Vanderbilt tender, new headlight with LED inside moved to the center of the smokebox door, electrical generator, bell casting, etc. I have an Elesco Feedwater Heater and pump that I've been contemplating installing.
My question is, is there any likelihood that a feedwater heater would ever have been installed on a locomotive such as this? From all the photos I've seen, this locomotive doesn't appear to be a likely candidate. It looks like Elescos were usually installed on some real "heavy-weights", the smallest being a heavy Pacific type or large 0-8-0. I haven't found any evidence that an Elesco was ever used on a loco with a Belpaire firebox. What do ya think?
Chuck
Grand River & Monongah Railroad and subsidiary Monongah Railway
I do not know for sure, though If I googled "Elesco Feedwater Heater" I might find more info about which type of locos would have worn them.
I can say this though: If you are taking it and "making it loose it's pennsy identity" by changing things, then you could add a feedwater heater if you wanted. It's your loco and you can do what you wanna unless you are specifically changing it to look like a specific loco for a specific RR, which you did not specify.
Just my
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
I've Googled Elesco feedwater heaters and also gone through a large number of 2-8-0 types and haven't found a one with a feedwater heater on it. I know that I can "do what I want" but I'm concerned that this loco might be a bit "wimpy looking" for the Elesco. Also on the technical side, there is normally a live steam line running from the steam turret in front of the cab. The Belpaire doesn't have such an appliance on top so I wouldn't know how to bring that line out. Maybe it's just a "never would have happened" situation. If that's the case, I'm good with it (but I sure do love the way they hang out over the front!)
There were examples of 2-8-0s that were built with this feature, the storied Ma & Pa comes immediate to mind of 2-8-0's that featured Elecscos and who's to say your mechanical department can't do it? Feedwater heaters were a popular upgrade for older steam, SP had mammoth BL heaters applied to small steam.
Dave
Granted not a North American prototype, but:
The JNR 9600 class 2-8-0s were built, without such niceties as knuckle couplers, Westinghouse brakes or feedwater heaters, 770 of them, between 1913 and 1925.
Sometime after they were built the buffers and vacuum brakes went away, replaced by knuckles and air brake applances - the latter stuck on in odd places without much attempt at uniformity. Along the way, some of them acquired Elesco-type cylindrical bundle feedwater heaters, also stuck on in odd places. Some of them were fitted ahead of the stack, some behind. The big piston pump was mounted on the right side - the fireman's side on the right hand running JNR.
If your Master Mechanic thinks that using a surplus Elesco heater will save the company some coal, by all means fit it to that ex-Pennsy H-whatever. If some freelancer can build a Garratt for his North American (or Japanese) railroad, equipping a 2-8-0 with a feedwater heater is well within the envelope...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with freelance odd-ticulateds)
Dave's right, the Ma and Pa had at least one 2-8-0 with the Elesco FWH 'buried' in the smokebox right before the stack. And SP certainly applied monstrous Worthington BL type feed-water heaters to some of their smaller power.
Where I have seen Elescos mounted on smaller power (4-6-0, 2-8-0, etc) is on Canadian railroads. The Elesco seemed to be a favorite with CNR and CPR during the steam era, usually mounted 'into' the smokebox right ahead of the stack. I've always thought the Elesco 'bundle' type FWH a particularly handsome addition to the locomotives it was applied to, whether just in front of the stack, or 'eyebrowed' out over the boiler front. I know that Rio Grande was fond of the Elesco, mounting it either on the smokebox forward of the stack, 'eyebrowed' over the boiler front, or in several cases, mounted on the pilot deck right under the boiler.
I think an Elesco would look pretty good mounted 'into' your boiler front on that handsome 2-8-0 of yours.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Chuck.
I shouldn't post to this but will after I finish mourning the loss of a great Pennsy steamer. The Pco. would have stuck a Worthington on it like its cousins. It was not the size or wheel arrangement that dictated improvements, It was the mechanical department that decided that the improvement or addition would reduce costs and improve reliability and lower maintenance cost. By all means if you think that adding a feedwater heater would add to the loco in a plus more than a minus then by all means go for it. After all its already ruined. OHHHH why couldn't it have been some cheap Bachman 2-8-0.
Pete
J.K.
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
B&M retrofitted some 2-8-0s with Elescos... B&M 2-8-0 w/ Elesco and another B&M 2-8-0 w/ Elesco
Alex
OK - I'm convinced to go ahead with the project. The boiler is cast metal; I don't think I'm equipped to hog out the top of the smokebox so the feedwater heater will be mounted on the front above the headlight. Removing the original cast on headlight, generator and bell and boring a hole through the boiler for a substantial distance for the LED wiring for the new headlight was enough "heavy work" for me. I'll still have to modify the cast on footboards to make room for the pump.
Sorry for your loss, Pete. The devil made me do it!
The CNR rostered quite a few Consolidations with Elesco fwhs (I have some Bachmann Consolidations that will be the basis for a couple) and they were very modern locos that were given the same tonnage ratings as their Mikados.
Wayne
Wayne,
I did run into a photo of a Canadian National 2-8-2, #3529 which I believe is one of yours. It has all the elements I'm looking for - front mounted FWH, Belpaire firebox and Vanderbilt style tender - Very Nice!
Thanks to all who have posted to this thread - time for me to get to work!
I think there is a "turret" on this loco, with corresponding piping down the side of the firebox. It's just under the cab, as opposed to in front of a more modern cab like the PRR K4, L1, I1 etc. Look at pix of those and I think that is what is on this (former) H class.
Altho' done years after it's retirement, ex CP 3716 2-8-0 received an Elesco and it turned out alright.
Thank You.
If anyone is interested in undertaking a similar project, I've color coded the Cal-Scale piping diagram for the Elesco FWH. You can print it out on an 8-1/2 x 11 sheet which makes things a bit easier. I've also caliper-measured the pipe sizes from the original instruction sheet. They were supposed to be actual HO size as drawn. I've added these wire diameters to the color coded drawing as well.
When this image comes up on your browser, if you set the print size to 150% it will fill an 8-1/2 x 11 sheet.
There's also a labelled photo illustration in THIS POST.
A word of warning - the wire sizes I added to the diagram were scaled from the original artwork. Now, starting to work on the actual castings, I find that those wire dimensions will not fit the holes in the castings. In some cases, you can drill the holes a bit larger but you won't have much area left around the hole - chances of ruining the part are fairly high. Overall, you'll pobably end up reducing the wire sizes by .005-.010" from what I put on the diagram. When you're cleaning up the castings, test fit everything and adjust wire and hole sizes to fit. I should have done all that before posting the diagram.
I used the pipe dimensions given in the Cal-Scale diagrams rather than the profile diagram. Keep in mind that pipe dimensions refer to the inside diameter of the pipe. Detail Associates' packaged wire comes with a conversion chart for the various diameters of wire for most popular scales. Also, some of the feed water heater piping is lagged (wrapped with insulation), further increasing its visible diameter.
It's a good idea to drill-out the holes in any detail castings where pipe will be attached, as it makes a stronger connection when soldered together. You should be able to handle, with reasonable care, most well-detailed steam locomotives.
I see that the large exhaust pipes from the FWH go into the smokebox at various different locations on different locomotives. On some they run down along side the smokebox to a location that isn't clear to me. Where do they go? Into the smokebox from the bottom? Empty out on to the ground? I've tried enlarging photos that I've found but either the resolution isn't there or the end just doesn't show.
Actually, they "go" to the heater bundle, as they're meant to carry the exhaust steam from the cylinders to the heater coils.
I terminated the ones in the photos below so that they appear to originate from the cylinder casting that also comprises the smokebox saddle, but the ends should probably have been a bit higher up - it would depend on the location of the exhaust steam passages within the casting. As you've noticed, though, it's in an area not readily seen. My main concern was to get them down to the approximately right area, yet still leave the loco easy to dis-assemble.
Here's a glimpse on the painted loco, with the end just visible behind the lower step and slightly to the left of the cylinder head cover:
...and another view, before painting, which shows it more clearly:
Sir, that is one lovely model of the CN 2-10-2!! Looks even better painted.
Thanks for the kind words, KC, and the additional info, too.
True to the prototype, I started with a USRA 2-10-2 (from Akane):
The tender shown is not the original, but rather the planned replacement (Bachmann) for the rebuilt loco.
Working from photographs, I added a few details:
It was built for a friend, but here are a couple of in-service shots on my layout:
WOW! Once again GREAT Modeling! Amazing!
The real engine may have looked like that for 5 minutes or so after a shopping.
Thanks again for the kind words.
The photos from which I worked were in an issue of the CN Lines SIG magazine, along with some in the October 1983 issue of Mainline Modeler. The latter dealt with USRA 2-10-2s, with a separate feature on the CNR makeover of the B&A locos. Both magazines were loaned to me by the model's owner.
I also did several other locos for the same friend,including this brass Mikado. The main modifications were the addition of the Elesco fwh, plus paint and lettering.
As many of his locos represent prototypes either preserved or the last of their class to be scrapped, he prefers a "just-out-of-the-shop" look, with very little weathering.
Back when he still liked more weathering, I added an Elesco to this brass loco:
...then later repainted it to reflect his current tastes:
This one is a modified Athearn loco (and he was aware that its prototype didn't have an Elesco):
This is a BLI USRA Mikado which I did for another friend. She wasn't concerned that it represent a specific prototype, so it's an amalgam from several photos, with the number picked, more-or-less, at random:
However, she wanted it to look a little more well-used:
While I don't specifically model the CNR, I do have an interchange with them, so have a couple of my own CN locos on the layout, too. No Elescos here, though. (the lead loco is mine, the trailing re-numbered sister belongs to the first friend):
This one, also built using photos in the CN SIG magazine, is an extensively re-built Proto loco, completely re-piped and with a lengthened frame to accommodate the CN-style front end:
Also planned is a CNR S-3-a (using an Athearn Mike) and a pair of N-2-b Consolidations (using the Bachmann 2-8-0). All three locos will have Elescos like their prototypes, and I'll also be building a DW&P N-2-a, which is very similar to the N-2-b, but with an exposed Coffin fwh. While the latter loco never ran in my modelled region, it's a great-looking loco and I've decided that it'll look good on my layout, too.
Great thanks guys, Now I've got something else to add to my fantasy steamer...
-Morgan
Thank You! I am astounded at the detail and exactness achieved on the locomotives pictured! Lovely!
Likewise for what is loosely called 'scenery.'
Hours of labour, and love to arrive at the final result.
Once again, great modelling, all.