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Model Chain Question

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Model Chain Question
Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 11:06 PM
I am building a pair of open passenger cars modified from flat cars. (see http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/173915/1908368.aspx#1908368) I need to know what would be a good model chain to use on the railing end. (The same end as the steps.) I would like to use something similar to what one would use on some hood unit engines to model the chain on the endrail. This would be in HO scale. Any ideas anyone has would be welcome.
Tags: chain , hood unit
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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 11:18 PM

FRRY,

You might try A-line 40 LPI (Links Per Inch)

Tom

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Posted by Omaha53 on Wednesday, June 2, 2010 6:49 AM

I would suggest going to a garage sale or flea market and look for some old jewelery chain in the proper size. I have found some much cheaper than what you can get from a hobby store. It looked real good when it was painted black with rust.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Wednesday, June 2, 2010 7:31 AM

I was at A.C. Moore the other day looking at jewelry chain for exactly this purpose.  Unfortunately, none of the chain I found there was even close to the fine 40-link stuff I've bought at my LHS.  But, I'll be looking at Michaels to see if they have a different grade of chain.

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, June 2, 2010 10:12 AM

 Another place to check are places that specialize in model ship building. I was in a store that did just that and they had spools of chain down to the smallest size that you could buy by the inch.Captain

 

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, June 2, 2010 10:13 AM

Even the forty-links-per-inch chain is grossly oversize, scaling out at about 5.5 links per HO foot, although I don't know of a practical alternative.  I use it on the brake cylinder linkage of my freight and passenger cars.

While it's still oversize, hidden under the car it's less-glaringly so and "suggests" prototypical practice. Smile,Wink, & Grin

Builders in Scale offers 40 links-per-inch chain, as does Detail Associates - the Walthers part number is 229-2210 and is on Page 5 in the link.

Wayne

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Posted by highwayman9674 on Sunday, June 6, 2010 3:26 PM

I learnd thro the years that if you shop in the dollar store near you .there are sooo many things in there..I found tools, knives and mini figures..also for you there is alot of chains also..I used a bleach bath to turn the gold and sliver plating to a nice matte black...

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Posted by teen steam fan on Sunday, June 6, 2010 3:30 PM
what mix for a bleach bath? Regular chlorine bleach right?

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Posted by Allegheny2-6-6-6 on Sunday, June 6, 2010 3:51 PM

 For stuff like that I like Precision Scale co. they have just about anything you may want in the way of detail parts like that if not them Greenway Brass is another good source.their links are listed below

 

 

 http://psc1.virtualfocus.com/

 

http://greenwaybrass.com/s_87_parts.shtml
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Posted by tatans on Sunday, June 6, 2010 5:45 PM

Doc wayne: must agree even 40 L / inch is large, I'm sure anything smaller is not available, small chains always a problem in small scale.

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Posted by tstage on Monday, June 7, 2010 11:22 AM

doctorwayne
Even the forty-links-per-inch chain is grossly oversize, scaling out at about 5.5 links per HO foot...

Wayne,

By my calculations, 40 LPI chain comes out to be ~2.2" per link in HO:

1÷ 40 LPI = 0.025" x 87.1 (HO) = 2.1775"

If that's correct, it wouldn't be that far off prototypically.

Tom

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, June 7, 2010 4:03 PM

 

tstage

doctorwayne
Even the forty-links-per-inch chain is grossly oversize, scaling out at about 5.5 links per HO foot...

Wayne,

By my calculations, 40 LPI chain comes out to be ~2.2" per link in HO:

1÷ 40 LPI = 0.025" x 87.1 (HO) = 2.1775"

If that's correct, it wouldn't be that far off prototypically.

Tom

You're right, Tom, but only for some applications.  The O.P. was looking for safety chain for the end of some passenger cars.

FRRYKid
I am building a pair of open passenger cars modified from flat cars. (see http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/173915/1908368.aspx#1908368) I need to know what would be a good model chain to use on the railing end. (The same end as the steps.) I would like to use something similar to what one would use on some hood unit engines to model the chain on the endrail. This would be in HO scale. Any ideas anyone has would be welcome.

 

That chain is considerably smaller than 2.2" per link:

I've been guilty of using the 40 lpi chain in such applications, too, but eventually ended up by using the wire from a grain-of-wheat bulb:  pull two or three strands of wire from a bulb lead, then twist them together, forming a sort of cable.  Tied in place with a "droop" formed in the cable, then ca'd at the ends looks more to scale, in my opinion.

Wayne

 

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Posted by FRRYKid on Monday, June 7, 2010 10:53 PM
As the O.P., I have gotten many ideas from my post. I did finally find a model ship building site that I think I will order the chain I need (based on a suggestion from this post). Just to double check with the forum, the chain in question has 2 mm links. If I have converted that correctly, I come out at about 5/8 of an inch. If I am correct, that should be about right for the application I have in mind. If it is not, please let me know. And thank you for all the assistance that you have provided
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Posted by tstage on Monday, June 7, 2010 11:17 PM

FRRYKid
I did finally find a model ship building site that I think I will order the chain I need (based on a suggestion from this post).

 

FRRY,

You may want to double-check with the site about that.  2mm would give you 0.079" per link.  40 LPI would give you .025" per link:

1÷ 40 LPI = 0.025"

Do you have a link to the ship building site where you found the chain?

Tom

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Posted by bogp40 on Monday, June 7, 2010 11:27 PM

I too am guilty of using the oversized 40 link/ " chain. One main reason is that it is the smallest chain to fit over an opened eye bolt.

One needs to be extra careful when painting any chain w/ 40 links or smaller.  Drybrushing w/ Floequil or Scalecoat  or airbrushing with same does a far better job as not to allow the paint to close up the links. Brush painting especially w/ acrylics is most assured to turn the chain into a series of oval lumps.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 10:57 AM

bogp40


One needs to be extra careful when painting any chain w/ 40 links or smaller.  Drybrushing w/ Floequil or Scalecoat  or airbrushing with same does a far better job as not to allow the paint to close up the links. Brush painting especially w/ acrylics is most assured to turn the chain into a series of oval lumps.

 

 

I watched a model ship maker colour his chain by pulling it along under an burnt umber coloured marker pen. It looked great. No lumps.Captain Maybe those rail weathering markers would do the trick???

 

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Posted by FRRYKid on Tuesday, June 8, 2010 11:33 PM
tstage

FRRYKid
I did finally find a model ship building site that I think I will order the chain I need (based on a suggestion from this post).

 

FRRY,

You may want to double-check with the site about that.  2mm would give you 0.079" per link.  40 LPI would give you .025" per link:

1÷ 40 LPI = 0.025"

Do you have a link to the ship building site where you found the chain?

Tom

To answer your question, as to the site where I found the chain. It is Towerhobbies.com and it is the LXGWH7 Constructo Chain Brass 2mm (1 meter). And I would also double check your conversion from millimeters to inches: There are 254 mm to the inch. Dividing 2mm by 254mm, I come up with 0.0079" rather than 0.079". I suspect you used 25.4 instead of 254. (2mm/25.4mm =0.079)
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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, June 9, 2010 6:45 AM

FRRYKid
To answer your question, as to the site where I found the chain. It is Towerhobbies.com and it is the LXGWH7 Constructo Chain Brass 2mm (1 meter). And I would also double check your conversion from millimeters to inches: There are 254 mm to the inch. Dividing 2mm by 254mm, I come up with 0.0079" rather than 0.079". I suspect you used 25.4 instead of 254. (2mm/25.4mm =0.079)

You're going to have to trust me on this one, FRRY.  I work with mm in my job.  There's 25.4mm to an inch; 1mm = 0.03937"

But...just in case you're still not convinced:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/inches-mm-conversion-d_751.html

Just didn't want to see you buy something that wasn't going to work for you. Smile 

Tom

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Posted by galaxy on Wednesday, June 9, 2010 7:02 AM

tstage

FRRYKid
To answer your question, as to the site where I found the chain. It is Towerhobbies.com and it is the LXGWH7 Constructo Chain Brass 2mm (1 meter). And I would also double check your conversion from millimeters to inches: There are 254 mm to the inch. Dividing 2mm by 254mm, I come up with 0.0079" rather than 0.079". I suspect you used 25.4 instead of 254. (2mm/25.4mm =0.079)

You're going to have to trust me on this one, FRRY.  I work with mm in my job.  There's 25.4mm to an inch; 1mm = 0.03937"

But...just in case you're still not convinced:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/inches-mm-conversion-d_751.html

Just didn't want to see you buy something that wasn't going to work for you. Smile 

Tom

OH, I agree. That would be correct. There are 2.54 CM to an inch, so therefore there would be 25.4 MM to an inch, moving the decimal one to the right to go from CM to MM.

 {plus I cheated to be sure- I looked at my dual measurement ruler- easy to count the mm within the cm}.

-G .

Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, June 9, 2010 10:02 AM

I skipped all of the conversion business and most of the math by simply laying some 40lpi chain on my HO scale rule and counting the links.  Smile,Wink, & Grin

Wayne

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Posted by FRRYKid on Wednesday, June 9, 2010 7:25 PM
Then I am flat out of ideas because everything else I can think of (other than just using wire) is out of scale. Thank you for all your assistance.
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Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, June 9, 2010 8:51 PM

Instead of chain, how about a swing gate?  

Wayne

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Posted by FRRYKid on Wednesday, June 9, 2010 11:07 PM
Is that swing gate built with wire or is it built with bent plastic? If it is built with wire, can the design be adapted to work in plastic as my endrails are plastic? Thank you for the different tack on the situation.
"The only stupid question is the unasked question."
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Posted by doctorwayne on Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:01 AM

Other than the stand for the brake wheel, all of the platform details are brass.  However, it would be easy enough to bend a gate from brass wire, then fix it in place with a combination of ca and suitably-placed drilled holes.  While mine could have been left operational, I chose to fix it in place.

Wayne

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Posted by FRRYKid on Thursday, June 10, 2010 10:44 PM
What size wire did you use on your swing gate? It is a little hard to tell from a photograph.
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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, June 11, 2010 4:09 AM

The wire used for the gate is .012" brass.  .015" would also work for HO.

Wayne

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Posted by galaxy on Friday, June 11, 2010 4:25 AM

The swing Gate!

What a nifty swift idea! ANd the shape. I probably would have made a rectangle and used something like screening to fill in the rectangle. But you have such a facinating shape to that one!

Thumbs UpBowSmile

-G .

Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.

 HO and N Scale.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Friday, June 11, 2010 11:28 AM

Thanks, Galaxy.  Smile  The shape is based on similar gates used on permanent safety railings at the steel plant where I worked.  I'm not sure that it matches any particular railroad's style, but since my road is free-lanced, I thought that it looked suitable enough.  The one-piece construction (not including the "latch") makes it easy to construct and it could be glued in place or made to operate, as the builder chooses.

Wayne

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