A Renewed Interest In Railroads

[HaroldA]

Every now and then here in Michigan and especially in the Saginaw, Flint, Pontiac and Detroit corridor there is talk about high speed rail.  The discussion has started again and, of course, no one knows if anything will ever be done.  I think these kinds of discussions do translate into a renewed interest in railroads and as the price of air travel and gasoline goes up, rail travel might very well benefit.  My brother travels by train every where he goes - not because he has a fear of flying, it is just his preferred mode of travel.  I have to confess I am very tempted to board a train and head out somewhere this summer.  Perhaps I am another potential convert.

On another front, I think it is a little unfortunate that the History Channel dumped the program Extreme Trains.  Despite what anyone may have thought about the host, I found it a fascinating program and it could have done much to elevate people's knowledge about this vital link in our transportation industry.

[Phoebe Vet]

 

http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/theclog/2010/04/27/take-the-train/ 

 

 

[YoHo1975]

Quick first comment, It was Warren Buffet's company Berkshire Hathaway that bought BNSF and you can bet that that purchase made more people take notice than anything the Whitehouse did in terms of interest in trains. Next, a brief comment on the Commie Socialist interstate highway system. While it is true that government regulation over the entire 20th century certainly did impact the private railroad companies significantly, there is one little fact that opponents of federal subsidies always seem to forget. It was the Federal Government that made train travel possible. It was Abraham Lincoln that gave away land and money so that the transcontinental railroad could be built. The reason rail travel used to be fast and cheap and still profitable was because the federal government paid the railroads to move the mail on those trains. Passenger trains never paid for themselves as so many blinkard idiots in Washington (and I suppose mainstreet) want them to. It was the Government through the mail contract that made 90MPH passenger trains possible and when the government moved that business to planes and trucks, the Railroad passenger business became a complete money loser. So when a Politician or person on the street tries to tell you that Railroads need to pay their own way like they used to, you can remind them that they never did pay their own way. The US government made it all possible and then remind them how well subsidized the Highway and Airport system is. Having said all that, Perhaps I've been spoiled. for the past decade I've been living in either Southern California or the Portland Or Metro area and let me tell you, there is no lack of interest in trains in either location. Before they ended it, the Fullerton Railroad days was heavily attended as were the festivities at last year's national train day. California has become a commuter rail leader and their LR and Transit is catching up. They have an active commuter base and interest in trains is wide spread. And Portland is Portland. They have their faults up here, but they also have the best rail based public transit for a city it's size in the country. So I guess as a person on the west coast, this thread makes me stand up and say Welcome to the club to rest of the US and to ask what took you so long?

[Anonymous]

 Not bad looking, those coaches. It is a good start, nothing more, but also nothing less. Of course, we Europeans are spoiled - the train on the pic I posted runs every half hour. I live within earshot to the main line from Hamburg to Bremen. We have about 160 - 180 trains during the day. Thank god our trains are not that noisy

[Phoebe Vet]

Actually that is the spare engine.  I Hardly ever see it.  They have 4 of these:

 

The cars are old but are nicely restored.  They are as comfortable as anything Amtrak runs in the area.

 

 

http://www.bytrain.org/pdf/middayrls.pdf 

http://www.bytrain.org/pdf/middayschedule.pdf 

 

[tugboat95]

MisterBeasley

Sir Madog

The first step, however, is to gain the society´s acceptance for the public funds this will require - not an easy job! 

Yes, I'm afraid you're right.  The announced "investment" in high-speed rail by our government is a tiny amount compared to the actual cost of doing the work.  These millions will pay only for studies, and when the numbers come in for the actual costs of doing the work, the project will likely be shelved and the money written off as wasted.

Unfortunately, there is little "national" benefit from any one project.  Improving rail travel between Chicago and Milwaukee, for example, does nothing for the voters in Ohio whose votes both parties would like to buy with tax dollars.  I had higher hopes for California, which was looking at a state-funded rail project, but their current budgetary situation will likely mean yet another "layout" that will never even get to the benchwork stage.

 

 I can honestly say NC's investment has gone past the study stage.  NC owns a lot of the trackage in the state dating back to when they were originally built in the 1850's.  The rights are leased to N&S and CSX.  A recent highway project in my town was revamped when it was realized one of the bridges would be going over the mainline from Morehead City to Raleigh.  The bridge was raised and ramps redesigned to accommodate this at state expense.(original design was made a decade ago).  I know several RR bridges over rivers have been recently brought up to standards and all the steel rails have already been replaced from here to the capitol. Currently, N&S is upgrading all of the highway crossings with new ties, and signals as well as asphalt (lots of traffic headaches right now).  I don't know who is investing the money, the state or N&S but it is happening here.  Morehead's port facilities are being upgraded as well. That is state money.  All of this has recently brought in a new manufacturer to the area to build plane fuselages and ship them out by rail to the port and then overseas to Europe.  That was really big news here recently in this economy as well as eastern NC doesn't have a lot of manufacturing to begin with.

With that being said, I do wish passenger service would come to my area, but I don't expect it too.   I travel the nation but the nearest train station for me is over 2 hours away (Rocky Mount).  Then I have to pay to park my car for 2-3 weeks and trust me, that adds up!  I regularly go to Philadelphia and usually drive it in 8 hours.  If I took the train it would be almost 6 hours of train ride, plus the 2 hours to get to the station.  That includes a lengthy layover in Washington DC. Its cheaper and faster to drive it.  Flights are temperamental.  If I get the timing right I can be home is just a few hours, but miss a connection and that adds three hours of waiting.  Plus security, which is the biggest reason I don't fly anymore.   To make passenger service viable across the nation, there has to be regular runs everywhere.  The distances involved make this impossible.  I grew up where the nearest grocery store was 20 miles away and the school was beside it. My nearest neighbor was over a mile down the road.  Sheer distances have done in the train option when there is a highway right next to it.

[ccaranna]

I have noticed trains making a great number of cameo appearances all over the media in various guises, especially in commercials these days. I'm not sure how to explain it, other than what the original poster described as a renewed interest in railroads.

It's actually kind of ironic to see this rail resurgence in the media during a period of semi anti-corporate public sentiment, considering that many railroads were considered to be evil, self-opportunistic, self-motivated monopolies 100 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Phoebe Vet

You didn't mention that beginning in May NC is adding a noon trip both ways for the Piedmont, the train that runs equipment owned by NC between Raleigh and Charlotte.

 

 

I am afraid, that a freight loco heading  a string of 50+ year old coaches is not the way to kindle public interest in rail transport. It takes modern, comfortable, quiet riding and easy to access equipment to draw people back into the trains.

Watch the height of the platform - it allows disabled people in a wheel chair to enter the train without help. The overpass has elevators, so they can easily access the platform. Ten years ago, this was a run-down station, serviced by run-down equipment.  8 years ago, it was revamped, and new trains were put into service. This line is now making money! However, the infrastructure was (and still is) heavily subsidized - fortunately, no one questions these spendings here. 

[Phoebe Vet]

tugboat95

 North Carolina has started a program to "get the word out" about passenger train service in the Piedmont area.   There have been several articles recently in NC focuses magazines touting the state owned (Amtrak operated) passenger trains, including an expose on an Ambassador program using volunteers to ride the trains in order to assist passengers and reach out to kids with activities while traveling through the area.  The state also is investing millions of dollars to upgrade state owned rails from the coast to Charlotte to high speed rail, including raising highway bridges(including one in the town I live in) to accommodate taller trains.

You didn't mention that beginning in May NC is adding a noon trip both ways for the Piedmont, the train that runs equipment owned by NC between Raleigh and Charlotte.

 

[salt water cowboy]

rrinker

 Perhaps the word is finally getting out that it uses a whole lot less fuel to ship stuff by train compared to trucks? Why people couldn't have realized this common sense 30 years ago before they ripped out all the tracks I'll never know, but at least there is renewed interest in railroads.

                                            --Randy

 

 

Ha! How 'bout 54 years ago with the introduction of that Great Socialist Communistic Entity known as the interstate system...  Maybe the Pennsy and NYC would still be in hot competition today! LOL... sorry for the monday morning political sarcasm! (Hope I didn't break any rules.)

Matt

[MisterBeasley]

Sir Madog

The first step, however, is to gain the society´s acceptance for the public funds this will require - not an easy job! 

Yes, I'm afraid you're right.  The announced "investment" in high-speed rail by our government is a tiny amount compared to the actual cost of doing the work.  These millions will pay only for studies, and when the numbers come in for the actual costs of doing the work, the project will likely be shelved and the money written off as wasted.

Unfortunately, there is little "national" benefit from any one project.  Improving rail travel between Chicago and Milwaukee, for example, does nothing for the voters in Ohio whose votes both parties would like to buy with tax dollars.  I had higher hopes for California, which was looking at a state-funded rail project, but their current budgetary situation will likely mean yet another "layout" that will never even get to the benchwork stage.

[Anonymous]

 I am fortunate to live in a country, where rail travel is still very much a part of every day life, although much of the network has been closed down over the past thirty years. Our skyrocketing gas prices have turned taking the train into a valid economic choice. Incredibly low air fares, however, have posted a serious threat to long distance travel by train in Europe. Only the outbreak of Iceland´s Eyjafjallajokul volcano and the subsequent ban of air travel in all of northern Europe for nearly a week has shown people, that traveling by train is also a viable choice for long distance. Bear in mind, though, that long distance is any distance above 300 miles here at this side of the Big Pond. With the distances given in Canada and the US, Europe cannot act as a role model for rail service, for both freight and passenger service. 

I see a better future for rail services in the commuter and short or medium distance traveling, providing that train stations are linked to a working public transport system in downtown areas, not only in terms of physical logistics, but also in terms of tariffs and fares. My train ticket to Hamburg allows me to use all of Hamburg´s subways, buses and commuter trains. This system was introduced about 5 years ago, effecting a doubling of passenger numbers! Going into downtown Hamburg by train takes only half of the time you need when going by car, at about half of the cost as well.

Much of the necessary infrastructure has been taken down in the US  or is in a desolate state of repair. It will be a tremendous task to revamp the system up to a level, where it once was. The first step, however, is to gain the society´s acceptance for the public funds this will require - not an easy job!

[superbe]

wholeman

I was just wondering if there is a renewed interest because of media coverage or is it something else?

 

Attached is a link to a news article about creating a train corridor from Louisiana to New Jersey that I posted in the Prototype Forum last month.

Some of the interest can be attributed to the truck congestion on our interstate highways.

http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/171782/1886545.aspx#1886545

Bob

[willy6]

A couple of weeks ago, there was an article in USA TODAY about that well known rich guy ( I can't remember his name) buying BNSF and the future of American railroads looking good. The 4 major U.S. railroads CSX,BNSF,UP and NS are having 52 week highs on the stock market.

[the North East Rail Modeler]

AntonioFP45

Actor Teye Diggs is supposed to make some sort of appearance at a "National Train Day" event which should help stir up some more interest.  Good to know that someone in "Hollyweird" is a railfan.

Good to see the renewed interest in railroading, but of course it's still a far cry from the days when E-units and 90mph passenger runs outside of the NEC were a common sight.   IMHO the public, in general, is still overwhelmingly ignorant as to

1. How Class I and Class II railroads operate

2. The types of customers they serve 

3. The politics that motivates many of the decisions made by Amtrak's leadership

4. Why collectively railroads' percentile returns on their investment is still low inspite of the reported 'mega-million" profits by some of the Class I roads.

How many of you have become extremely annoyed after seeing a news broadcast of a train that hit a car trying to beat the train, and the reporter says  "Before striking the car at about 50mph, the Conductor reportedly applied the brakes.........!"     That still drives me nuts!     

Hopefully with this increased contact with the public via "pr", railroad brass will "attempt" to make a better effort to educate the public. 

One more rant:  Australia and Europe have some of THE BEST railroad grade crossing safety commercials in the world.  Some are graphic.  It puzzles me why the AAR and the FRA don't push for those types of safety messages here in the U.S.   Seems that grade crossing collisions (at least here in Florida) are on the rise! 

OK crew.............end of rant 

 

Antonio FP45, You are in Florida too?

 I don't know if you saw it, but in the Times Union a few weeks ago, there was an incident reported with a truck Vs Train accident. Here it is:

A CSX locomotive and caboose hit a tow truck at a crossing in downtown Jacksonville, FL. The driver of the truck survived and was transported to the hospital, and the train crew was uninjured.

 Well, there are two ironies to the story:

1. The truck had just left a scrap yard, after dropping off a wrecked car. The tow truck was sent back to the scrapyard, this time, in pieces and hauled by another towtruck.
2. The CSX train was only hauling 1 caboose: and the caboose was in a special paint scheme for,    None other than Operation Life Saver. Yes, the same OLS that advocates railcrossing safety.

 No, this was not a staged event: This really happened. It was just pure dumb luck that the truck was hit by a train that was a rolling billboard for rail crossing safety.

[BRAKIE]

rrinker

 Perhaps the word is finally getting out that it uses a whole lot less fuel to ship stuff by train compared to trucks? Why people couldn't have realized this common sense 30 years ago before they ripped out all the tracks I'll never know, but at least there is renewed interest in railroads.

                                            --Randy

Randy that is called rationalization of the railroad plant.That is caused by low density,lack of customers,duplicate lines due to mergers etc..Of course some of these low density lines have been sold to regional or short lines.

[AntonioFP45]

Actor Teye Diggs is supposed to make some sort of appearance at a "National Train Day" event which should help stir up some more interest.  Good to know that someone in "Hollyweird" is a railfan.

Good to see the renewed interest in railroading, but of course it's still a far cry from the days when E-units and 90mph passenger runs outside of the NEC were a common sight.   IMHO the public, in general, is still overwhelmingly ignorant as to

1. How Class I and Class II railroads operate

2. The types of customers they serve 

3. The politics that motivates many of the decisions made by Amtrak's leadership

4. Why collectively railroads' percentile returns on their investment is still low inspite of the reported 'mega-million" profits by some of the Class I roads.

How many of you have become extremely annoyed after seeing a news broadcast of a train that hit a car trying to beat the train, and the reporter says  "Before striking the car at about 50mph, the Conductor reportedly applied the brakes.........!"     That still drives me nuts!     

Hopefully with this increased contact with the public via "pr", railroad brass will "attempt" to make a better effort to educate the public. 

One more rant:  Australia and Europe have some of THE BEST railroad grade crossing safety commercials in the world.  Some are graphic.  It puzzles me why the AAR and the FRA don't push for those types of safety messages here in the U.S.   Seems that grade crossing collisions (at least here in Florida) are on the rise! 

OK crew.............end of rant 

 

[NeO6874]

Dunno if this matters much -- but the continuation of the CSX "... and we're green too!" commercials might be helping as well...

[richhotrain]

The media is definitely hyping travel by train and the Obama administration, particularly VP Joe Biden, is pushing the notion of high speed rail at least on a regional basis.  But, it would appear that the public's increasing interest in travel by train has a lot to do with the frustration associated with air travel.

 

[rrinker]

 Perhaps the word is finally getting out that it uses a whole lot less fuel to ship stuff by train compared to trucks? Why people couldn't have realized this common sense 30 years ago before they ripped out all the tracks I'll never know, but at least there is renewed interest in railroads.

                                            --Randy

[jwhitten]

wholeman

 I have noticed within the last year or so more articles published in various newspapers, magazines, and even websites about traveling by train, preserving artifacts, etc.

In fact today, I saw the UP 844 enter Coffeyville, KS where it will stay overnight and leave the following morning.  While I was there, I noticed a lot of people surrounding it.  The last time I saw it was 4 years ago in the same location and there weren't nearly half the people then.

I was just wondering if there is a renewed interest because of media coverage or is it something else?

 

 

Today  I was in the book store buying my regular copy of RMC and lo-- there was another guy at the counter buying one also! I've always suspected that there was another MR or two in the area but I've finally spotted one in the wild...

 

John

[tugboat95]

 North Carolina has started a program to "get the word out" about passenger train service in the Piedmont area.   There have been several articles recently in NC focuses magazines touting the state owned (Amtrak operated) passenger trains, including an expose on an Ambassador program using volunteers to ride the trains in order to assist passengers and reach out to kids with activities while traveling through the area.  The state also is investing millions of dollars to upgrade state owned rails from the coast to Charlotte to high speed rail, including raising highway bridges(including one in the town I live in) to accommodate taller trains.

[wholeman]

 I have noticed within the last year or so more articles published in various newspapers, magazines, and even websites about traveling by train, preserving artifacts, etc.

In fact today, I saw the UP 844 enter Coffeyville, KS where it will stay overnight and leave the following morning.  While I was there, I noticed a lot of people surrounding it.  The last time I saw it was 4 years ago in the same location and there weren't nearly half the people then.

I was just wondering if there is a renewed interest because of media coverage or is it something else?