Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Need help from TOFC/TTX flatcar experts

16214 views
12 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 49 posts
Need help from TOFC/TTX flatcar experts
Posted by mopac57 on Monday, March 8, 2010 1:00 PM

My modeling cut-off date is 1982, and I'm looking to acquire TOFC flats appropriate for the era. I know the Atlas TTAX flats will work. But what about the Walthers Bethlehem 932-40301 TTX flat--is that appropriate for 1982?

 The 1982 ORER lists the majority of TOFC cars in service as TTX AAR Type F877--but I have no idea what a "Type F877" is.

Are there any other HO flats out there that are accurate for 1982? I know BLMA has some in the works, as does Athearn ... but I'm unclear where the Walthers models fit into the scheme of things.

 

Thanks,

Jason

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, March 8, 2010 1:12 PM

mopac57

My modeling cut-off date is 1982, and I'm looking to acquire TOFC flats appropriate for the era. I know the Atlas TTAX flats will work. But what about the Walthers Bethlehem 932-40301 TTX flat--is that appropriate for 1982?

 The 1982 ORER lists the majority of TOFC cars in service as TTX AAR Type F877--but I have no idea what a "Type F877" is.

Are there any other HO flats out there that are accurate for 1982? I know BLMA has some in the works, as does Athearn ... but I'm unclear where the Walthers models fit into the scheme of things.

 

Thanks,

Jason

Well, my real TOFC expertise is in the early days of TOFC of the late 40's and early 50's - I model 1953/54 - and yes there was a fair amount of TOFC by then.

To your question, you would be well advised to find a copy of "The Model Railroader's Guide to INTERMODAL EQUIPMENT & OPERATIONS" by Jeff Wilson. It has all the answers you are looking for.

Briefly and basicly, most any of the 75', 85' and 89' flat cars on the market would be right for that era. The biggest variations through the 70's and 80's would be in how they are fixtured (fixed hitches, retractable hitches, hitch positions, etc), not so much the length or design of the flat car.

Jeff's book goes into great detail, so I will not.

Sheldon

  

    

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,877 posts
Posted by maxman on Monday, March 8, 2010 2:34 PM

There's a little bit of information listed here: http://forum.atlasrr.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=55241

I'm not familiar with the Walther's 932-40301, but I did build several from the Walthers 4950 series of cars.  These were RTTX 150368 and 152376; KTTX 151484 and 151216; and TTX 150368.  All of these were versions of the F89F flatcar, and had the channel sides as shown in the picture in the above link.  The instruction sheet was common to all these models and described a modernization program begun in 1982 by Trailer Train to accommodate longer trailers on flatcars built previously.

Concerning the reporting marks, Trailer Train (TTX) owns a bunch of different reporting marks, some of which fall in and out of use as TTX re-purposes the flats.  For example, I have a copy of the April 1986 equipment register and no RTTX cars are listed.

I don't know where you are getting the type F877 number from the equipment register.  My 1986 copy does not show this for any of the TTX cars.  However, if that designation is shown under the "car type" column, it doesn't refer to the builder or model of flatcar.  In the back of the equipment register there is something called the Umler (Universal Machine Language Equipment Register) data specification manual.  The car types are listed in one of the exhibits (exhibit D in my copy).  If you correlate the car type you find listed next to the car to the manual, you can get information relating to car height and length, what the car can carry, etc.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,877 posts
Posted by maxman on Monday, March 8, 2010 2:46 PM

Here's some additional photo links:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=181169

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1722318 (this one says it's an F89F)

You can see several other F89F cars on the list here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsList.aspx?id=RTTX

Regards

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 11:00 AM

You can rule any flat cars out that have the "speed letter" TTX logo as those are post 1991.

The introduction of 45' long trailers on the road around 1982 meant that rail cars began being modified to carry two 45' flat cars around 82/83 and onward.  TTAX flat cars (Atlas) are "all purpose" type which can handle both containers on pedistals or 40 foot trailers x 2 or one 45' and one 40' trailer.  TTX flat cars are TOFC only flat cars (Walthers) which are the analog of the Atlas flat car trailer only flat car (2 x 40' or 1 40 and 1 45' trailer).  The TTAX flat cars were quicly converted between 1982 and 1985 to twin 45' foot and re-badged TTWX.  However, there were a significant number of TTX flat cars well into the mid 1980's.  They could still care the many 40' and short pup UPS trailers.

Here is a compliation of Trailer Train type intermodal cars by ORER date and quantity:

TTX Intermodal Car Types and Quantities by Year from ORER  

July 1975 ORER (Flatcars with inside length of 89'0" to 89'6")

BTTX 2936 (type V5xx - autorack, bilevel, open or side shielded)
CTTX 1 (type F077)
ETTX 577 (type V491 - autorack, trilevel, fully enclosed)
FTTX 1556 (type F119)
GTTX 64 (type F877)
ITTX 1165 (type F119)
JTTX 1034 (type F119)
KTTX 2762 (type V681 - autorack, trilevel, open or side shielded)
LTTX 1879 (type F877)
RTTX 3870 (type V681, V682 - autorack, trilevel, open or side shielded)
TTAX 4888 (type F077)
TTBX 4307 (type V5xx - autorack, bilevel, open or side-shielded)
TTCX 711 (type F977)
TTDX 224 (type F119)
TTKX 6155 (type V691 - autorack, trilevel, open or side shielded)
TTRX 2207 (type V691 - autorack, trilevel, open or side shielded)
TTSX 195 (type V191 - *Stac-Pac* cars)
TTVX 206 (type V291 - *Vert-A-Pack* cars)
TTX 19029 (type F875, F877)
XTTX 734 (type F877)
ZTTX 1 (type F109)
 
 


July 20, 1978 ORER – 89' flats:

KTTX – 1782
TTAX – 5755
RTTX – 2392
TTX – 18,693


July 1982 ORER:

TTX - 18,831 (AAR Type F877)
WTTX - 66 (Type F877)
TTAX - 11,416 (Type F077)
TTWX - 0
RTTX - 44 (Type V681 & V682) << Autoracks
KTTX - 44 (Type V681) << Autoracks
STTX - 359 (Type F877)
TTCX - 686 (Type F977)
TTEX - 0
ETTX - 30 pages of cars, I'm not adding<< Autoracks

April 1985 totals:

TTX - 17,492 (AAR Type P712 & P812)
WTTX - 943 (Type P824)
TTAX - 903 (Type P818)
TTWX - 13,496 (Type P829)
RTTX - 0
KTTX - 1,364 (Type P833)
STTX - 738 (Type P814)
TTCX - 674 (Type P736)
TTEX - 0
 
 October 1988 ORER (corrected date)

TTX: 9,367 (includes some 85' and 50' as well)
TTWX: 14,500
RTTX: 5,400 (all types, including channel side)
KTTX: 2,750 (all types, including channel side)
TTAX: 0
WTTX: 2,180 (all types, including channel side)
STTX: 649
TTCX: 944 (only 445 are 89' cars)
TTEX: 129 (all types, including channel side)

The ORER doesn't give the TT car classes, so it's impossible to tell on the TTX, RTTX, KTTX, STTX and TTEX which cars are channel side, and which aren't. It is unlikely that all purpose cars would have gotten WTTX marks, or been combined into the TTEX Triple 57.
ETTX are enclosed tri-level autoracks.

October 1991 ORER

TTX: 2,112 (includes a few 85' and prototype cars)
TTWX: 14,035
RTTX: 5,099 (all types, including channel side)
KTTX: 2,352 (all types, including channel side)
TTAX: 2,201 (5 unit articulated all-purpose spine car)
WTTX: 1,283 (all types, including channel side)
STTX: 166
TTCX: 665 (only 171 are 89' cars)
TTEX: 197 (all types, including channel side)

Interesting to note that the TTAX has made a re-appearance, only this time as a completely different car. Also, about half the WTTX's are now something else. Any flush deck WTTX cars would have been candidates for bi-level auto racks, which might explain the much lower numbers.




 

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, March 9, 2010 11:29 AM

It got too hard to edit a long post so I'm pasting in the Trailer Train car lable designations here from an old magazine article:

 

RMC magazine (August 1990) article on the subject listing the TT markings:

ATTX - 75' all purpose flatcar (center and side tiedowns)
BTTX - 89' flatcar equipped with bi-level auto rack)
CTTX - 89' low level flatcar equipped with partially enclosed autorack
DTTX - 265' Five platform, articulated well-type COFC car capable of carrying double stack containers
ETTX 89'4" low level flatcar equipped with totally enclosed tri-level autorack
FTTX 89'4" flatcar equipped with tie down devices for loading automobile or truck frames
GTTX 85' and 89' General American built flat car equipped with collapsible hitches and bridge plates for transportation of trailers
HTTX 60' Flatcar equipped with 38 heavy duty chains, snubbers and turnbuckles for carrying earthmoving equipment
ITTX 89'4" flatcar equipped with special fold away pedestals and 62 tie down winches with chains and bridge plates for carrying trailer tractors saddle back style.
JTTX 50 - 89'4" flatcar with misc devices applied for lessor special service
KTTX 89'4" "Twin-45" standard level flat car with fixed hitches at both ends for handling two 45' trailers back to back (over head loading only)
LTTX 89' Low level flatcar equipped with collapsible hitches and bridge plates.
MTTX 60-85' 60 foot flatcar with stake pockets for gen service or 85' flatcar with 16 stake pockets, 8 per side for tansporting long pipe.
NTTX 249' 5-unit articulated COFC car for transporting containers (spine car)
OTTX 60' Flat car equipped with 36 chains, with snubbers each secured to movable and retractable tie down winches in for longitudinal channels for transporting agricultural equipment
PTTX 60' flat car equipped with bulkheads space 48'6" apart for transporting plywood and wallboard etc.
RTTX 89'4" "Twin-45/Tripple 28" standard level flatcar with fixed hitches on ends of car and retractable hitch at center of car. For handling two 45' or three 28' trailers (overhead loading)
STTX 89'4" "Twin-45" standard level flat car for handling two 45' trailers, equipped with sliding bridge plates for circus style loading
TTAX 89'4" Standard level flat car equipped with foldaway container pedestals and hitches for TOFC and/or COFC service.
TTBX 89'4" flat car equipped with bi-level auto rack, rack can be either open or shielded on the sides but does not have roof or doors.
TTCX 60' and 89' flat car equipped with container pedestals for COFC service.
TTDX 89'4" flatcar equipped with 16 tie down winches with chains and bridge plates for transporting military vehicles
TTEX 181'9" two unit TOFC car for hauling four 45' trailers or three 57' trailers (over head loading only)
TTFX 187'6" four platform TOFC car capable of carrying four 45-trailers
TTGX 89'4" flatcar equipped with totally enclosed bi-level auto racks
TTHX 60' 60-foot flat car equipped with 18 heavy duty chains anchored to stake picket castings
TTJX 68' 68-foot 100-ton flatcar equipped with 22 screw type tie-down devices and stake pockets.
TTKX 89' flatcar equipped with hinged "B" deck tri-level auto rack. Rack can be either open or shielded on the sides but doesn not have roof or end doors
TTLX 89' "Twin-45" low level flatcar specially equipped by participant railroads with container pedestals or fixed hitches for assigned corridor.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    May 2015
  • 5,134 posts
Posted by ericsp on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 2:13 AM

Here is an explanation of the car type codes.

http://eaneubauer.ipower.com/type.pdf

"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Minneapolis, MN
  • 122 posts
Posted by ChevelleSSguy on Saturday, June 5, 2010 11:25 PM

I happened to come across this thread. BLMA just started producing these flat cars.

  • Member since
    June 2007
  • 8,892 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:11 PM

Yes, so far they announced a post 1990 version and an as built version.  I'm waiting for the one in between with Trailer Train yellow markings.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • 1 posts
Posted by Tvier on Thursday, January 27, 2011 10:48 PM

I was going through a box of my model trains recently as I get ready to divide them between my kids for their future kids and I realized I had a complete set of twelve Wathers 75' TOFC Flat Cars, all individually numbered - 8 with TTX marks (TTX 932-3957) and 4 with ATTX marks(ATTX 932-3958). They are the 1980s paint scheme (yellow with black lettering). Eleven are still in the original boxes and none have been used in my setup. All twelve are in the original Wathers packaging.

I also have complimentary set of twenty-four 50’s era Trailers ( 933-1407 through 933-1412). There are two 32’ trailers for each of the twelve flatcars. All again are in their orginal boxes and again, all are packaged in the orginal Wathers outside box.  I am trying to figure out what they would be worth in the market but I have not found any comparables. I may also just set them aside for one of my kids.  Can you offer any help or recommendations?  Thanks - Tom

 

Tags: TTX
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, January 28, 2011 6:51 AM

Tvier

I was going through a box of my model trains recently as I get ready to divide them between my kids for their future kids and I realized I had a complete set of twelve Wathers 75' TOFC Flat Cars, all individually numbered - 8 with TTX marks (TTX 932-3957) and 4 with ATTX marks(ATTX 932-3958). They are the 1980s paint scheme (yellow with black lettering). Eleven are still in the original boxes and none have been used in my setup. All twelve are in the original Wathers packaging.

I also have complimentary set of twenty-four 50’s era Trailers ( 933-1407 through 933-1412). There are two 32’ trailers for each of the twelve flatcars. All again are in their orginal boxes and again, all are packaged in the orginal Wathers outside box.  I am trying to figure out what they would be worth in the market but I have not found any comparables. I may also just set them aside for one of my kids.  Can you offer any help or recommendations?  Thanks - Tom

 

Tom, they generally go for about $10 a car on e-bay.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    June 2010
  • 1,012 posts
Posted by Forty Niner on Friday, January 28, 2011 7:10 AM

Or........check the current prices in the Walthers catalog, then when you find them just deduct 50% from that price. If you are selling basically NIB items they should sell well.

Mark

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, January 28, 2011 8:12 AM

Forty Niner

Or........check the current prices in the Walthers catalog, then when you find them just deduct 50% from that price. If you are selling basically NIB items they should sell well.

Mark

Current prices? The last time this item appeared in the Walthers Catalog was 1997 - List Price $9.98

Tom specificly identified that he had the 75' cars, not 85' or 89' cars.

Since I model the orginal era of those cars, and model lots of piggyback service, it's something I keep up on. I have purchased quite a few of these - $10 is the going price.

Sheldon

 

    

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!