My modeling cut-off date is 1982, and I'm looking to acquire TOFC flats appropriate for the era. I know the Atlas TTAX flats will work. But what about the Walthers Bethlehem 932-40301 TTX flat--is that appropriate for 1982?
The 1982 ORER lists the majority of TOFC cars in service as TTX AAR Type F877--but I have no idea what a "Type F877" is.
Are there any other HO flats out there that are accurate for 1982? I know BLMA has some in the works, as does Athearn ... but I'm unclear where the Walthers models fit into the scheme of things.
Thanks,
Jason
mopac57 My modeling cut-off date is 1982, and I'm looking to acquire TOFC flats appropriate for the era. I know the Atlas TTAX flats will work. But what about the Walthers Bethlehem 932-40301 TTX flat--is that appropriate for 1982? The 1982 ORER lists the majority of TOFC cars in service as TTX AAR Type F877--but I have no idea what a "Type F877" is. Are there any other HO flats out there that are accurate for 1982? I know BLMA has some in the works, as does Athearn ... but I'm unclear where the Walthers models fit into the scheme of things. Thanks, Jason
Well, my real TOFC expertise is in the early days of TOFC of the late 40's and early 50's - I model 1953/54 - and yes there was a fair amount of TOFC by then.
To your question, you would be well advised to find a copy of "The Model Railroader's Guide to INTERMODAL EQUIPMENT & OPERATIONS" by Jeff Wilson. It has all the answers you are looking for.
Briefly and basicly, most any of the 75', 85' and 89' flat cars on the market would be right for that era. The biggest variations through the 70's and 80's would be in how they are fixtured (fixed hitches, retractable hitches, hitch positions, etc), not so much the length or design of the flat car.
Jeff's book goes into great detail, so I will not.
Sheldon
There's a little bit of information listed here: http://forum.atlasrr.com/discussion/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=55241
I'm not familiar with the Walther's 932-40301, but I did build several from the Walthers 4950 series of cars. These were RTTX 150368 and 152376; KTTX 151484 and 151216; and TTX 150368. All of these were versions of the F89F flatcar, and had the channel sides as shown in the picture in the above link. The instruction sheet was common to all these models and described a modernization program begun in 1982 by Trailer Train to accommodate longer trailers on flatcars built previously.
Concerning the reporting marks, Trailer Train (TTX) owns a bunch of different reporting marks, some of which fall in and out of use as TTX re-purposes the flats. For example, I have a copy of the April 1986 equipment register and no RTTX cars are listed.
I don't know where you are getting the type F877 number from the equipment register. My 1986 copy does not show this for any of the TTX cars. However, if that designation is shown under the "car type" column, it doesn't refer to the builder or model of flatcar. In the back of the equipment register there is something called the Umler (Universal Machine Language Equipment Register) data specification manual. The car types are listed in one of the exhibits (exhibit D in my copy). If you correlate the car type you find listed next to the car to the manual, you can get information relating to car height and length, what the car can carry, etc.
Here's some additional photo links:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=181169
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1722318 (this one says it's an F89F)
You can see several other F89F cars on the list here: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsList.aspx?id=RTTX
Regards
You can rule any flat cars out that have the "speed letter" TTX logo as those are post 1991.
The introduction of 45' long trailers on the road around 1982 meant that rail cars began being modified to carry two 45' flat cars around 82/83 and onward. TTAX flat cars (Atlas) are "all purpose" type which can handle both containers on pedistals or 40 foot trailers x 2 or one 45' and one 40' trailer. TTX flat cars are TOFC only flat cars (Walthers) which are the analog of the Atlas flat car trailer only flat car (2 x 40' or 1 40 and 1 45' trailer). The TTAX flat cars were quicly converted between 1982 and 1985 to twin 45' foot and re-badged TTWX. However, there were a significant number of TTX flat cars well into the mid 1980's. They could still care the many 40' and short pup UPS trailers.
Here is a compliation of Trailer Train type intermodal cars by ORER date and quantity:
October 1991 ORER TTX: 2,112 (includes a few 85' and prototype cars)TTWX: 14,035RTTX: 5,099 (all types, including channel side)KTTX: 2,352 (all types, including channel side)TTAX: 2,201 (5 unit articulated all-purpose spine car)WTTX: 1,283 (all types, including channel side)STTX: 166TTCX: 665 (only 171 are 89' cars)TTEX: 197 (all types, including channel side)Interesting to note that the TTAX has made a re-appearance, only this time as a completely different car. Also, about half the WTTX's are now something else. Any flush deck WTTX cars would have been candidates for bi-level auto racks, which might explain the much lower numbers.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
It got too hard to edit a long post so I'm pasting in the Trailer Train car lable designations here from an old magazine article:
RMC magazine (August 1990) article on the subject listing the TT markings: ATTX - 75' all purpose flatcar (center and side tiedowns) BTTX - 89' flatcar equipped with bi-level auto rack) CTTX - 89' low level flatcar equipped with partially enclosed autorack DTTX - 265' Five platform, articulated well-type COFC car capable of carrying double stack containers ETTX 89'4" low level flatcar equipped with totally enclosed tri-level autorack FTTX 89'4" flatcar equipped with tie down devices for loading automobile or truck frames GTTX 85' and 89' General American built flat car equipped with collapsible hitches and bridge plates for transportation of trailers HTTX 60' Flatcar equipped with 38 heavy duty chains, snubbers and turnbuckles for carrying earthmoving equipment ITTX 89'4" flatcar equipped with special fold away pedestals and 62 tie down winches with chains and bridge plates for carrying trailer tractors saddle back style. JTTX 50 - 89'4" flatcar with misc devices applied for lessor special service KTTX 89'4" "Twin-45" standard level flat car with fixed hitches at both ends for handling two 45' trailers back to back (over head loading only) LTTX 89' Low level flatcar equipped with collapsible hitches and bridge plates. MTTX 60-85' 60 foot flatcar with stake pockets for gen service or 85' flatcar with 16 stake pockets, 8 per side for tansporting long pipe. NTTX 249' 5-unit articulated COFC car for transporting containers (spine car) OTTX 60' Flat car equipped with 36 chains, with snubbers each secured to movable and retractable tie down winches in for longitudinal channels for transporting agricultural equipment PTTX 60' flat car equipped with bulkheads space 48'6" apart for transporting plywood and wallboard etc. RTTX 89'4" "Twin-45/Tripple 28" standard level flatcar with fixed hitches on ends of car and retractable hitch at center of car. For handling two 45' or three 28' trailers (overhead loading) STTX 89'4" "Twin-45" standard level flat car for handling two 45' trailers, equipped with sliding bridge plates for circus style loading TTAX 89'4" Standard level flat car equipped with foldaway container pedestals and hitches for TOFC and/or COFC service. TTBX 89'4" flat car equipped with bi-level auto rack, rack can be either open or shielded on the sides but does not have roof or doors. TTCX 60' and 89' flat car equipped with container pedestals for COFC service. TTDX 89'4" flatcar equipped with 16 tie down winches with chains and bridge plates for transporting military vehicles TTEX 181'9" two unit TOFC car for hauling four 45' trailers or three 57' trailers (over head loading only) TTFX 187'6" four platform TOFC car capable of carrying four 45-trailers TTGX 89'4" flatcar equipped with totally enclosed bi-level auto racks TTHX 60' 60-foot flat car equipped with 18 heavy duty chains anchored to stake picket castings TTJX 68' 68-foot 100-ton flatcar equipped with 22 screw type tie-down devices and stake pockets. TTKX 89' flatcar equipped with hinged "B" deck tri-level auto rack. Rack can be either open or shielded on the sides but doesn not have roof or end doors TTLX 89' "Twin-45" low level flatcar specially equipped by participant railroads with container pedestals or fixed hitches for assigned corridor.
Here is an explanation of the car type codes.
http://eaneubauer.ipower.com/type.pdf
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
I happened to come across this thread. BLMA just started producing these flat cars.
Yes, so far they announced a post 1990 version and an as built version. I'm waiting for the one in between with Trailer Train yellow markings.
I was going through a box of my model trains recently as I get ready to divide them between my kids for their future kids and I realized I had a complete set of twelve Wathers 75' TOFC Flat Cars, all individually numbered - 8 with TTX marks (TTX 932-3957) and 4 with ATTX marks(ATTX 932-3958). They are the 1980s paint scheme (yellow with black lettering). Eleven are still in the original boxes and none have been used in my setup. All twelve are in the original Wathers packaging.
I also have complimentary set of twenty-four 50’s era Trailers ( 933-1407 through 933-1412). There are two 32’ trailers for each of the twelve flatcars. All again are in their orginal boxes and again, all are packaged in the orginal Wathers outside box. I am trying to figure out what they would be worth in the market but I have not found any comparables. I may also just set them aside for one of my kids. Can you offer any help or recommendations? Thanks - Tom
Tvier I was going through a box of my model trains recently as I get ready to divide them between my kids for their future kids and I realized I had a complete set of twelve Wathers 75' TOFC Flat Cars, all individually numbered - 8 with TTX marks (TTX 932-3957) and 4 with ATTX marks(ATTX 932-3958). They are the 1980s paint scheme (yellow with black lettering). Eleven are still in the original boxes and none have been used in my setup. All twelve are in the original Wathers packaging. I also have complimentary set of twenty-four 50’s era Trailers ( 933-1407 through 933-1412). There are two 32’ trailers for each of the twelve flatcars. All again are in their orginal boxes and again, all are packaged in the orginal Wathers outside box. I am trying to figure out what they would be worth in the market but I have not found any comparables. I may also just set them aside for one of my kids. Can you offer any help or recommendations? Thanks - Tom
Tom, they generally go for about $10 a car on e-bay.
Or........check the current prices in the Walthers catalog, then when you find them just deduct 50% from that price. If you are selling basically NIB items they should sell well.
Mark
Forty Niner Or........check the current prices in the Walthers catalog, then when you find them just deduct 50% from that price. If you are selling basically NIB items they should sell well. Mark
Current prices? The last time this item appeared in the Walthers Catalog was 1997 - List Price $9.98
Tom specificly identified that he had the 75' cars, not 85' or 89' cars.
Since I model the orginal era of those cars, and model lots of piggyback service, it's something I keep up on. I have purchased quite a few of these - $10 is the going price.