Incitement to Radical Action!!!!!!! Boycot UP

[Anonymous]

Hey Guys,

I was just informed of the UP Suit against Athearn and Lionel.

UP has a major crew shortage and the railroad is grinding to a halt. And they are worried about Athearn and Lionel??

I don't know about you guys, But I am not buying another UP Item as long as I live.

THey can just bite me. And if they have a problem with it, they can eat my lead and RPGs.

James

[dehusman]

So let me get this straight, because Athearn and Lionel didn't license the use of UP's logo's (which they are required to do by law, since UP has registered them), you are going to not buy any "UP" models?

News flash, the UP doesn't make any UP models. They are a railroad. Unless you ship on them, you can't "boycott" the UP.

In order to support Athearn and Lionel, you are going to stop buying their products, thereby depriving them of revenue and putting them out of business?

Heckuva plan.

Dave H.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Grayhound,

A lot of us are not happy with the UP situtaion, but remember:

UP is doing what Disney, the NFL, and hundreds of other companies have been doing world wide: Protecting their trademark! Yes, previous railroad managment teams didn't make a big deal about it, but the current managment is acting like any typical modern corporate team. CSX is now on the bandwagon. Do we boycott them too?

Incidentally modelers, do you remember just few years ago a manufacturer started producing UPS trucks in HO scale? However, the UPS "logo" was not included! From what I read back then, UPS gave a "thumbs down" to the use of its trademarks. I don't know if anything was worked out afterwards, but I didn't hear of any "UPS Boycott" from modelers.

As mentioned on other topics, both sides of the issue need to be examined. And again, the impact on the price of models would actually be minimal, especially if manufacturers want to stay in business.

I don't know your ages, but I was around when Disney got VERY AGGRESSIVE with its logos some years back. Many people and small businesses were marketing T-Shirts, Toys, Decals, etc.,. without permission. Many images were distorted, some with sexual overtones. Disney lawyers launched a major, expensive attack and pretty much quenched the wide-scale abuse. Made this UP scenario look like a campfire meet! People everywhere were talking "boycott". Within a year or two, it was vitrually forgotten!

Modelers boycotting UP would accomplish "zero" and only hurt the model manufacturers.
If you really want to "boycott" UP models, then you would have to include: Missouri Pacific, Southern Pacific, Rio Grande, Western Pacific.

Guys, you make some valid points, however, WE REALLY NEED TO LET THIS ONE GO! [/b]With sincerity, In my humble opinion, the quality of this forum is starting to take a serious slide as this topic is continually rehashed! I've learned so much in just this past year, but it seems that this train has just hit a 5% grade and the wheels are spinning. We need to back up, and take another route!

[swg][4:-)]

[Eriediamond]

[#ditto]Antonio. I've been trying for days now to express my same feelings as yours. I couldn't have said it any better. Thanks. Yes, I believe we've run this UP thing into the ground. I'm not a UP fan, I do not buy UP locomotives, I have not seen any price gouging on UP items at the hobby shop. What, I have seen is people jumping of the deep end and making or expressing panic decisions and posting uninformed rumors and accusations for the most part. This is not meant as a slam or flame to anyone nor aimed at anyone involved with UP or the manufacturers. Having said this, some may dissagree with me or be angered by my comments. Thats fine, however I mean not to provoke anger, but just to express my view point and thats all. Thanks, Ken

[MAbruce]

I agree that this kind of boycott is only going to hurt the MRR manufacturers the most.

When compared to their annual revenues, whatever UP (or whatever RR) would get from their MRR licensing fees could not even be considered pocket change to them. In fact, I even doubt it’s enough to pay their lawyers to enforce the program.

I'm sure the MRR manufacturers will eventually work it all out. They have everything to lose, while UP has little to nothing to lose over a lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

Oh boy here we go again.

[Anonymous]

As per the Atlas forum, I will just state that UP has both the legal right to charge the fee, and the right to sue those makers who don't pay it.

Period.

If you don't want to model UP (or AMTRAK or CSX or whatever RR has a fee next), that's your decision. It won't hurt UP or any other RR.

Not even AMTRAK!

It might hurt the model makers or those who want a realistic model RR, however.

These threads are a waste of time, and that is my last comment on this topic.

[AntonioFP45]

TA462,

More than likely, the amount wouldn't even amount to $1 per model (unless the manufacturer or LHS decides to mark it up that high. The cost to manufacturers comes out to pennies and nickels per unit.

Let's do something constructive here:

We still need to send messages to our model manufacturers that we are expecting them not to GOUGE customers (that's us) as a result of this since the impact from licensing will be small. When they decide to pass the costs on to us, then the price increases, if any, should also be small!

We all basically know how to e-mail Athearn, Atlas, Kato, LifeLike, Stewart, and Bachmann. Guys, this is one area where a bunch of us could do something effective instead of focusing on the UP!

[Anonymous]

I have to vote NO on a boycott. Why should I (we?) change our modeling because people don't like UP's actions. UP is doing what it thinks it must and for goodness sake Apple Computer has practically killed of competitors in the past when they mimic'd the imac etc.

Every company has a right to protect its identity. Hence why we have trademarks and copyrights.

Am I all eager over spending extra $$ heck no.. but i'm not gonna get all freaky.

Jeff

if you don't like it don't buy it and QUIT GRIPING ABOUT IT!!!

[Anonymous]

Um... How many times have I said its not pennies, the manufacters only add a dollar to the model to make it an even $5.00

[Big_Boy_4005]

There are a couple of problems with all of this guys.

First, while UP owns and is entitled to charge for the use of their logo, they may have forfieted that right to charge in the eyes of the law, because they waited so long to make a claim. They are in no danger of losing their trademark, just the money.

The second problem here is that there is no evidence that Athearn is reaping the benefits of any extra money. I still believe that it is unscrupulous hobby store owners or distributors that are trying to cash in on UP's claims.

In the case of Disney, those images are their main business, or at least it started out that way. Running amusement parks was the side business to promote the main business, though that entire concept may have flipped back in the late 70's.

[CP5415]

Have a look on Walthers website.

I see nothing from Athearn in UP livery that's more expensive than the same gondola in BN livery
Part# 1644 UP
part# 1655 BN

Both are $7.25 from Walthers.

Gordon

[StillGrande]

I am more interested in the statement by UP that the licensing works out to pennies per item (CSX's is about $1 per item), yet the manufacturers I have seen who put out "licensed" UP products are charging $5-10 for a UP item. If it is as complicated to file for UP liscensing as it appears to be for CSX (a 2 page form, with check boxes), I am highly suspicious of the higher costs for a UP unit versus another line (especially when a merger "victim" is not adjusted upward in price.

[Anonymous]

Who pays MSP anyway? Most of us shop for the discount so lets throttle up and move
foward.

[AntonioFP45]

Price gouging!

As I've mentioned above and on a thread I've posted, we need to focus our attention on the "manufacturers" not UP!

[Anonymous]

The matter comes down to greed. Pure and simple. And greed is the one of the few things I refuse to support. Union Pacific has had 70 years to get its act together. And they didn't. So any more UP items I obtain will iether be second hand, or a product of my paint shop with decals I make. I know this doesn't help Athearn, Lionel, Walthers, or other manufacturers. But Union Pacific's greed has to be curbed. Now there are rumors they are going around suing custom painters and stuff to have licencing fees becasue they can potentially make UP equipment.

It is this kind of behavior that seriously ticks me off. If UP's Lawers get anywhere near my property, they better be prepaired with back up, because I will probably do a few things I would regret the next day. But in any event isn't seeing a dime of my money.

Long Live Big Wonderful Wyoming, (Kick UP out first)

a very disgruntled James

[Anonymous]

Greyhound you sound like a little kid, crying over what U.P. has a right to do..wow your not gonnabuy anymore U.P. products good!!! there to good for whiney little kids anyways...dang to many people acting like little B****** over what U.P. has a right to do, and im getting mad. so expect to hear from me everytime someone bad mouths U.P.

[philnrunt]

up9899-you're gonna be a busy little boy!

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by philnrunt

up9899-you're gonna be a busy little boy!

No doubt....express any opinion you want as long as it's pro UP.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415

Have a look on Walthers website.

I see nothing from Athearn in UP livery that's more expensive than the same gondola in BN livery
Part# 1644 UP
part# 1655 BN

Both are $7.25 from Walthers.

Gordon

Could that be because Athearn has decided NOT to be part of the licensing agreement, so they are NOT charging extra for UP models? Walthers is just a re-seller here, not a manufacturer.

Take a look at the MR ads. Kato is already charging more for UP stuff. I'll bet anyone a cup of coffee and a donut that within 90 days of Athearn losing the case, that the entire industry is raising prices on UP and CSX stuff. Then, WATCH the ENTIRE R.R. INDUSTRY jump onboard. Then once everyone has started charging the manufacturers for licensing, then the dust will settle. All the prices may have evened out again by that point.

Athearn and Lionel I'm afraid are tilting at windmills here. Until this thing settles out, lets knock off with the "the sky is falling, the sky is falling" stuff. It's not very becoming.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme
It's not very becoming.

Oh no..It be coming allright[:)]

[RedLeader]

Sorry grayhound, but this must be one of the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Wanna boycot UP, don't ship UP. It's like giving away your couch because you found your wife having s*x with the milkman on it. Greed??? They have all the right to protect their name! So are you! It's not a matter of greed, they are not getting any profit out of it, they just want to be shure their name won't be missused in funny insulting products or propaganda. What if your face starts appearing on toilet paper?

Not buying UP models is boycoting the model manufacturers not UPRR!! Perhaps what you want is puni***hem for using UP's name without Up's permission, and we all missunderstood you. That would make a little more sence, but hey, who cares!? Thats their problem not mine, as long as the prices don't change. I'm shure Athearn and Lionel will get to a legal agreement to this situation.

From my point of view UP cannot be so inquisitive about this issue, because, after all, model manufacturers contribute a great deal with UP's publicity by building models with their name and advertising them. Model RR is a great way of publicity to RRoads! Ask Amtrak.

[Anonymous]

Well he just deleted his membership thanks to everybodys comments here[V]

[AggroJones]

You scared Grayhound away.

[AntonioFP45]

Grayhound deleted his membership?

I hope that's not true! He's been a valuable member and has had good posts!

Guys, we have to think of our responses before posting them. In this case whether you're pro-UP, Anti-UP, or neutral, flaming someone because they gave an emotional opinion is just too "uncool"!!

As has been pointed out many times on this forum, many of us (yes, me too) may be a little emotional when we're responding to a post. Best thing to do is to respond to that person with supportive criticism, instead of scorching him. I'm not a "bleeding heart" but I know what it's like to be abused by colleages!

If Grayhound has left, then the loss is ours! A fellow, talented modeler. If he's still here, let's give the man respect, as well as everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Quick quiz: How much revenue does UP make from royalties on its models?

Answer: I don't know, but I'm going to take an educated guess and say that it's far, far less than one percent of their annual gross revenue.

Boycotting UP won't hurt UP one bit, unless you no longer ship merchandise on one of their 1:1 size trains.

New quiz: How much to model manufacturers make from selling UP-marked models?

Answer: A substantial amount. Upwards of 15-20%, I'd bet.

Can they afford to lose that much revenue and stay in business?

Who does your boycott hurt?

[AntonioFP45]

ACL Fan,

Can't be better said![#ditto][sigh]

[Anonymous]

HERES A GOOD IDEA! WHY DOESN'T EVERRYONE ONE SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT UP! I'M SO SICK OF UP THIS AND UP THAT! UP SUCKS! BOYCOTT UP! FORGET THIS AND START TALKING ABOUT MODEL RAILROADING!Phew got that out of my system.

[BRAKIE]

Boycott if you must..But remember this..You are not hurting UP at all.You are hurting the model manufacturers.

[Anonymous]

The Reports of My Membership Deletion has been Premature. I am serous over this this Union Pacific Issue and my names obvious affiliation with the Union Pacific was quite obvious. Union Pacific no longer garners any support from me. Since I have long since liked GN better than UP I have changed my affiliation to the proper flag.

I concede that Athearn and Lionel are in the wrong as well. But UP started it and I am fed up with it.

I am now showing off my true afiliation.

James