UP to sue Model Railroaders

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I do not agree with irate reactions against UP protecting its trademark.

At the base of all this, there is an intent from a Company, UP, to control the usage of its trademark and logos. This is absolutely legitimate. Nearly all companies worldwide have done that since the early days of the existence of "trademarks" and "logos".

We modelers react negatively to UP's licensing program because this hurts us on something we love, model trains. For a $15 car, a $5 licensing fee is simply a 33% increase for our modeling budget. I think that what manufacturers should have done, is consolidate all licensing fees they pay, and put the total cost in the "expenses" column of their books. Like any other marketing expense. And nobody would have noticed the extra cost.

The licensing program is also there to prevent undue usage of a corporate image. For example, look at the January '97 cover of Mainline Modeler: It shows a "model" of a major rail catastrophe. I hate this picture, especially because it shows models of cars lettered for actual Companies. This hurts me. Which Company is willing to see their image used in such a negative way? In turn, I wouldn't believe that any modeler that has a UP-based layout, or operates UP models, both in a way that carries no disparaging image from the real Company, may have anything to fear from any lawyer ever.

What actually I can't believe either, is the statement that Athearn and Lionel would have repetitively refused to comply with UP's request for licensing?? That would seem to me so childish, so irresponsible. That seems to me -so- far from the respectability we all know of these manufacturers. There must be something else we don't know. I can't understand the rationale behind such a punition, such a huge fine. I would rather believe this is politics to force both manufacturers to the negociation table with UP, certainly paying all past-due licensing fees, and everybody returns to his daily business. Those 42 M$ would certainly kill both manufacturers. This is the interest of nobody, and certainly not UP's.

But this is just my opinion.

SP Mike

[NHRRJET]

This is really getting interesting; Just think, UP. . . .pay a royalty, CSX. . . .get a rebate!

[BRAKIE]

Hey Guys! The mighty CSX has join the UP..Now they want fees..So how come nobody bashes CSX for the error of their ways?? Kinda of one sided isn't it?

[Paul W. Beverung]

Gee; I thought that that's what lawyers were all about.

[Don Gibson]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Minuteman


UP has just announced today that anyone who has been modelling their railroad and has not recieved written approval from UP for the use of their logo or names of their divisions or terminals or routes as well as copyrighted structure designs may be subject to individual subpoena.

I don't think so - unless Lawyers are adopting a 'make work' program.

[GN715]

QUOTE: Originally posted by retsignalmtr

it's all about money. one of the other replys to this topic refered to the fact that it would add just a few pennys to the price of each model. if every corporation did the same thing it would add up to much more. from an exxon oil refinery to those ford and chevy motor vehicles, all your models would cost more.

It's not just a few pennys per model. Check the Kato adv at the back of MR. UP models are 5 bucks more expensive than identical non UP models. UP is actually considering model railroaders as a valid revenue stream.

Edit: Oops.. sorry.. I'm new to this BBS and didn't look at the dates of the posts. Sorry for dredging up something old. (I had just seen the article in the latest MR). Again.. I apologize.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

I don't know who wrote this?--Dave Vergun

We're a great big rollin' railroad...

Great Big Rollin’ Railroad
Lyrics: Bill Fries
Music: Richard Prouix

The theme song of the UP for a while.. Here's a website:

http://utahrails.net/up/rollin-rr.php

Wayne

[Anonymous]

Just for the record, the reason Lionel and Athearn aren't buckling under is that trademark law only applies to products and services in which the trademark owner is involved. The legal test used in courts is called the "ten foot rule" - if an average person can't tell the difference between two products bearing the trademark at a distance of ten feet , then the trademark is being infringed. I would challenge anyone but a legally blind person to not be able to tell the difference between a prototype piece of UP equipment with their logo on it, and a model railroad product. Also, the purpose of prototype equipment is to haul cargo, while I know of no one in model railroading who is hauling cargo for hire (although you have to watch those crafty G, 1:12 and 1:8 modelers - they're liable to try hauling anything! ).

I love the postulated discussion in UP's headquarters, BTW! How did you get the "recording"? I wonder if something like this is going to show up the way Enron's employees' discussions about raping California are now? We can only hope!

All Z BeZt - Yep, a real, live Z scaler, folks!
Jim

[Anonymous]

Maybe you didn't get it but the original post was a joke.

My God, you guys are wound up way too tight.

One of these posts implied they there would be gun violence over this issue

Please, use your brain for a minute before you go nuts with your threats and plans to boycott and all the rest.

It was a joke.

[vsmith]

All this hoopla over licenses I have never been happier to doing freelanced models. I dont have to give a Hoot-in-Hell if Uncle Pete wants to send his lawyers over and make sure I dont have any offending logo's on my cars. All they'll find is ONE boxcar that has been repainted to read "Onion Pacific!"[(-D]

[Anonymous]

f j and g that was very low.......BUT DAMN TRUE![}:)].
BNSFfan.

[FJ and G]

I don't know who wrote this?--Dave Vergun

We're a great big rollin' railroad

 

]      We're a great big rollin' railroad
      One that everyone can see
      'Cause we're Usually Parked on sidings
      That's why we're called U.P.

      We're a million tons of cargo
      Just a rottin' in the sun
       We're the Union Pacific
       And our meltdown's just begun

       From the plugged up yard in Roseville
      To our mainline filled with cars
       It's a big congested mess
      Like a railroad version of SARS

       We're a thousand wheels of freight train
       All being held for power
       We're the Union Pacific
      Makin' half a mile an hour

       Bound from Omaha to Portland
       Our customers are in luck

       'Cause we're setting out their cargos
       To load it all on trucks

        With Amtrak stuck in Oakland

       And in Denver and L.A.

       We're the Union Pacific
       And you're not gonna move today

      From the Valley to Dunsmuir
      We are runnin' out of crews
       But we'll deliver your great cargo
       'Cause we're usin' DPU's

       We're much safer and efficient
       All thanks to remote control
       We're the Union Pacifc
      Our bean counters say it's so

       With our copyrighted emblem
       We're gonna make 'em bleed
      And the beatings will continue
      'Til our tired crews succeed

       Our investors are all waiting
       With the shippers on their knees
       We're the Union Pacific
       And we'll deliver when we please...

[StillGrande]

UP has a very simple solution for all you UP modelers. They "request" that you list all the equipment that has their "protected" corporated images on it on there handy form. Fill out the length of ownership information and the amount of use you get out of each item. Attach a blank check or include a credit card number, and they will inform you of the "small fees" they need to charge you for the use of "their" equipment.

Simple!

[bnsfkline]

Theres a Model Railroad Club in Japan that Models UP, I guess Now UP has to buy Japan Rail Corp!

[Anonymous]

Customer lists.

Fortunatly in Wyoming we believe strongly in the Second Amendment.

Prais the lord and pass the Ammunition. Oh and can you toss me an RPG or two while your at it.

Bring it on uncle pete.

James

[Anonymous]

Laugh while you can.... now that most of the companies have bought into licensing, UP is going to require customer lists.

You're next, Pal!

[Anonymous]

Those of you with animated UP gifs in your signature...or UP pics...beware. The boogey-man's coming. He'll be wearing an Armour Yellow suit with subtle pinstripes and a briefcase. Be afraid...be very afraid![(-D]

[Anonymous]

Oh boy....It just keeps getting better&better by the minute.
BNSFfan.[^]!

[Anonymous]

Dateline: Texas.

My UP locomotives and rolling stock supported by BNSF and ATSF equipment just informed me that they are quite concerned about having to move maybe. They believe all water coolers should be banned from UP corporate offices to preclude any further source of alleged rumors. [:D]

So there you have it from here. A fight to the last locomotive.

And on and on. May your UP LOCOs be with you.

[Anonymous]

Oh wow that was soo cool.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Scott218

I wonder if this conversation actually took place.........


The Scene: Way up on the something-teen floors of Union Pacific Office
building in Omaha, we overhear the conversation of a couple of
upper-middle-managers discussing current issues on the UP . . .


Voice #1 - "Did you hear what our Legal Department did today?"
Voce #2 - "No."

V1 - "They took Lionel and Athearn to Court for Trademark Infringement"
V2 - "You're kidding. With all of the other **** going on and that's all
the better they have to do?"

V1 - "Evidently"
V2 - "Why just Athearn and Lionel?"

V1 - "Sounds like they were the only ones who had balls enough not to cave
in to our new Licensing Agreement"
V2 - "So, how much is it worth?"

V1 - "Well, if you figure all of the stuff they make, it probably adds up to

a couple of hundred bucks a day."
V2 - "So while we are losing millions a day because our Dwell Time is up,
our Average Train Speed is down, we don't have enough Crews, and are
Customers are getting PO'd, our couple hundred dollars an hour Lawyers are
shaking down model railroad manufacturers for a couple hundred bucks a
day??"

V1 - "Sure. In this day, you need to look at all of your revenue streams.
All these outfits selling stuff with our logo on it. And not only our logo.

Also, the logos of all of the stuff we've acquired over the years - SP,
Rio Grande, Northwestern, MoPac. A little here, a little there, it all adds

up. It's almost as good as actually delivering cars to customers, except we

don't incur any expense while doing it. It's all profit and someone else
does all the work."
V2 - "I suppose that gives us another out with Wall Street. I see it now --

UP announces lower 2nd Quarter Earnings because Athearn and Lionel refused
to pay their Licensing Fees. Sounds to me like we need to put our Legal
Deparment to some good use, like running trains!"

V1 - "Lawyers running trains?? That's a scary thought. I don't think you'd

ever get a Lawyer to trade in a ride in his Beemer for one of them rough
riding GE's. Then, they'd probably get dirty, too. Can't have that. Hell,

letting railfans run trains would be a whole lot more productive. Actually,

that was another brainstorm that came out of meeting I was in the other day
trying to figure out this Crew Shortage thing. We are going to setup a
Fantasy Railroad Camp, where Railfans pay us $2000 a week to work for the
railroad. Now, that's a revenue generator. I bet railfans would line up
for blocks!"
V2 - "Railfans?? What about the Saftey Issues? You can't just turn
Railfans lose on the Railroad! Besides, we've spent years running them off
the property."

V1 - "Safety is only a problem when trains are moving. Since most of are
trains aren't moving these days, it isn't an issue. And when they do move,
it is slow, like a shortline on Exempt Track. Can't do much damage at that
speed."
V2 - "Hard to argue with that. I dunno. Still seems to me, we should be a
little more worried about not letting the railroad melt down again."

V1 - "We will protect our trademarks because -- WE CAN ! That's our new
motto."
V2 - "We can?? We can what?? I though it use to be We can Handle It."

V1 - "It used to be, but obviously, we couldn't. So, we went with We Can,
because it is less committal. We didn't want another PR Disaster like that
We Will Deliver fiasco a couple of years back."
V2 - "Well, I thought I heard just about everything. What's next?? Have
our Car Ordering number forward to JB Hunt??"

V1 - "Now that you mention it. . . It would save us having to make the call
ourselves"

Bravo, You may just be joking, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that wasn't actually heard around the water cooler.[:0][:D]

[NHRRJET]

You can't spell stUPid without UP!

[Anonymous]

Just to be funny...Ya ,I got something they can WINK AT [:D]!
I thought that railfan's would have the courage and stand up and fight those words that come out the mouths of all of those UP officals and the CEO's and so fourth.
Railfan's....Do know that we as railfan's are being called everything the BOOK?
How can that SO-CALLED [censored] up railroad that can't even keep there own railroad running smoothly when all thay can do is call us "STUPID [censored] railfan's!" Now let's see if someone out there will have a good answer to this.
And ill bet anyone that for a million dollars that the railfan's could run that stupid railroad a hell of a lot better than those moron's down in omaha could.
I tell you what, I hope that the railroad "does"have a meltdown,and soon!
The UNION PACIFIC is like a ticking time bomb that could go off at anytime.
So from now I will just watch em' and not like them eather.
UP fan's.....You are a REAL FOOL if you continue to sapport the UP...That's if you like to be called a "STUPID [censored] RAILFAN! Im just so sadend of just how our railroads have realy changed today.
BNSFfan.

[Anonymous]

so sue me for for hauling imaginary freight in my up rolling stock . what the hell will happen next? next month someone will sue the pants off someone for the improper use of a fishing lure made to catch bass, when I use it to catch walleye's. All I can say is ESAD.( eat shi- and die). every time you turn around you hear I am going to sue. don't we all have something better to do with our time than spend it in court?

[Anonymous]

your right Mark but it sure is funny

[Anonymous]

Guys, there is a wink smilie on the topic name, THIS ISN'T TRUE!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by retsignalmtr

those UP corporate lawyers should be packed into an un-decorated boxcar with no food or water and no toilets and parked on a siding in the hot sun for a month.

Don't give em something else to sue us about![banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead][banghead]

[Anonymous]

I wonder if this conversation actually took place.........


The Scene: Way up on the something-teen floors of Union Pacific Office
building in Omaha, we overhear the conversation of a couple of
upper-middle-managers discussing current issues on the UP . . .


Voice #1 - "Did you hear what our Legal Department did today?"
Voce #2 - "No."

V1 - "They took Lionel and Athearn to Court for Trademark Infringement"
V2 - "You're kidding. With all of the other **** going on and that's all
the better they have to do?"

V1 - "Evidently"
V2 - "Why just Athearn and Lionel?"

V1 - "Sounds like they were the only ones who had balls enough not to cave
in to our new Licensing Agreement"
V2 - "So, how much is it worth?"

V1 - "Well, if you figure all of the stuff they make, it probably adds up to

a couple of hundred bucks a day."
V2 - "So while we are losing millions a day because our Dwell Time is up,
our Average Train Speed is down, we don't have enough Crews, and are
Customers are getting PO'd, our couple hundred dollars an hour Lawyers are
shaking down model railroad manufacturers for a couple hundred bucks a
day??"

V1 - "Sure. In this day, you need to look at all of your revenue streams.
All these outfits selling stuff with our logo on it. And not only our logo.

Also, the logos of all of the stuff we've acquired over the years - SP,
Rio Grande, Northwestern, MoPac. A little here, a little there, it all adds

up. It's almost as good as actually delivering cars to customers, except we

don't incur any expense while doing it. It's all profit and someone else
does all the work."
V2 - "I suppose that gives us another out with Wall Street. I see it now --

UP announces lower 2nd Quarter Earnings because Athearn and Lionel refused
to pay their Licensing Fees. Sounds to me like we need to put our Legal
Deparment to some good use, like running trains!"

V1 - "Lawyers running trains?? That's a scary thought. I don't think you'd

ever get a Lawyer to trade in a ride in his Beemer for one of them rough
riding GE's. Then, they'd probably get dirty, too. Can't have that. Hell,

letting railfans run trains would be a whole lot more productive. Actually,

that was another brainstorm that came out of meeting I was in the other day
trying to figure out this Crew Shortage thing. We are going to setup a
Fantasy Railroad Camp, where Railfans pay us $2000 a week to work for the
railroad. Now, that's a revenue generator. I bet railfans would line up
for blocks!"
V2 - "Railfans?? What about the Saftey Issues? You can't just turn
Railfans lose on the Railroad! Besides, we've spent years running them off
the property."

V1 - "Safety is only a problem when trains are moving. Since most of are
trains aren't moving these days, it isn't an issue. And when they do move,
it is slow, like a shortline on Exempt Track. Can't do much damage at that
speed."
V2 - "Hard to argue with that. I dunno. Still seems to me, we should be a
little more worried about not letting the railroad melt down again."

V1 - "We will protect our trademarks because -- WE CAN ! That's our new
motto."
V2 - "We can?? We can what?? I though it use to be We can Handle It."

V1 - "It used to be, but obviously, we couldn't. So, we went with We Can,
because it is less committal. We didn't want another PR Disaster like that
We Will Deliver fiasco a couple of years back."
V2 - "Well, I thought I heard just about everything. What's next?? Have
our Car Ordering number forward to JB Hunt??"

V1 - "Now that you mention it. . . It would save us having to make the call
ourselves"

[Anonymous]

Boy am I eating crow! I guess there "is going" to be graffitti on my layout after all. I gotta find some way of covering up their logos. PS; I wonder if we can file a lawsuit against the UP for using the colors & stripes of the " AMERICAN FLAG "....................................Also they gotta make up for their lost revenue somehow & this seems like a way to make up for it. They sure don't seem to know how to run a railroad properly. UP = UnPredictable?