Metal wheelsets

[E-L man tom]

Most of what I have purchased in rolling stock over the years have plastic wheels. I want to replace the plastic with metal wheelsets. I am told that one has to be careful when replacing wheelsets, that the axle points seat properly in the truck sideframes or they will not work properly. Is that true, and if so, what do I need to look out for to make sure I get the right wheelsets for my rolling stock?  What I have runs the gamut: Athearn BB, Accurail, P2K kits, Intermountain, MDC (Roundhouse), even some McKean and Bluebird kits. Most of these are still in the boxes and not yet built.

Also, I often hear the term RP-25 when wheels are mentioned. What is an RP-25 wheel and how does it differ from other wheels. Any advice will be helpful.

Thanks 

[jrbernier]

Tom,

  The critical issue is the axle length.  I have used P2K and Intermountain wheel sets in my Athearn/Roundhouse/Accurail freight cars.  While you are at it, get the 'tool' from Micro Mark or Reboxx for cleaning out the journals on your plastic trucks.  Here is the web link:

http://www.micromark.com/HO-TRUCK-TUNER,8241.html

http://www.reboxx.com/Tools.htm

  RP-25 wheel contour is part of an NMRA 'Recomended Practice'.  Most quality wheel sets(plastic or metal) use this wheel flange contour now.  I think you would have a hard time finding replacement metal wheel sets that are not RP-25(the RP has been around since the mid 60's).  Here is a link to the NMRA data sheet on RP-25:

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/pdf/RP-25%202009.07.pdf

   Using the 'tool' to ream out the sideframes and inserting quality metal wheel sets will make a big difference.

Jim Bernier

[cudaken]

jrbernier

Using the 'tool' to ream out the side frames and inserting quality metal wheel sets will make a big difference.

 Tom, if there is a real trick it is reaming out the side frame. You need to do a little bit at a time. Do one side, then the other. (you have to flip the tool, it only cuts one side at a time) If you take to much out of one side the wheel set will not be centered and the wheels will pick a turnout.  It is not hard to do. Couple of turns one side, then the other side. Give the tool a spin and when it spins for around 5 seconds you should be good to go. Insert the wheel set and it spins the same you are done. Some side frames will need no cleaning.

               Cuda Ken

[grizlump9]

 at the risk of starting a war let me offer this.  there are many advantages to using metal wheel sets as replacements for defective plastic ones and i use quite a few myself.

 i do think the idea of wholesale replacement on every car is not necessary and for my part is an over rated project.

 i don't care for steel axles since they are attracted to kadee magnets but plastic wheels that don't wobble and are in gauge work fine for me. if you don't use magnets between the rails then steel axles are not an issue   i do use the truck tuner tool on everything and consider it a basic tool of the hobby.

 as for metal wheels keeping the track cleaner, i haven't noticed any big difference.  it is a rare occasion when i need to wipe the rails clean on my layout and probably half of my equipment has plastic wheels.

 there are plenty of guys who will swear by metals wheels exclusively and if they feel that way then it's their right to do so.  i just can't see it as the Holy Grail of model railroading.

 not that i have to defend or explain myself but my thoughts are based on over 50 years in this hobby and a full basement sized layout with over 450 cars in service at any given time.

 it's still your call and your money.

grizlump 

[cudaken]

grump

as for metal wheels keeping the track cleaner, i haven't noticed any big difference.  it is a rare occasion when i need to wipe the rails clean on my layout and probably half of my equipment has plastic wheels.

 

 Griz, I will go along with that statement.

 

grizlump9

i do use the truck tuner tool on everything and consider it a basic tool of the hobby.

grizlump9

plastic wheels that don't wobble and are in gauge work fine for me.

 If it is not broke don't fix it. As far as the second part, you may be as right as well. When I was running the plastic axles sets (you did mean set) I never cleaned the side frames and they all started up wobbling. If you meant metal axles with plastic wheel set's I am with you on that as well.

 One thing I will say about all metal sets say like my PK 2000's is they don't go out of gauge.There they beat the Walther's and Athearns metal plastic sets hand's down. I will all so add now that my tracking skills are better, I cannot remember the last time I had to re gauge the wheels either?

 Hum, guess we need to send this to Myth Buster's.

[Javelina]

cudaken

 Hum, guess we need to send this to Myth Buster's.

Only if you want to see a nice layout blown to smithereens! You know how them boys roll.

[E-L man tom]

Thanks, guys for the replies. Also, thanks, Jim for the links, especially the one for the journal reamer/cleaner.

I have to say that I am relieved to know that there is not such a need to replace plastic wheelsets with metal. Apparently, unless the wheelsets with plastic wheels have plastic axles, then there seems to be no need to replace the wheels(?) at least that's the way I interpreted some of the threads here. 

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 Dito on the truck tuner tool thats a given, I personally like metal wheel sets but I can see Griz's point. If the "plastic" wheel sets were made of a material such as Delran than there would be no argument as to which one was better. metal wheels on metal  or Delran wheels on metal which do you think would be quieter.

[grizlump9]

 i want to jump back in here for a minute with a confession.  one thing that influenced my thinking about wholesale replacement with metal wheels was the fact that years ago i bought several hundred wheel sets from Hawkins over in Indiana.  they were all plastic on brass axles and were the result of wheel replacement they had done on a bunch of hopper cars.

 i think they let me have them for 10 cents an axle.

 after culling out the ones that did not run true or were 36" and checking and resetting the gauge on what was left i probably saved about 2/3 of them and still have a bunch on hand.

 these days i build mostly bowser and p2k car kits. the bowser plastic wheels on brass axles are usually ok.  some of the late p2k's are amazing.  i just built one of their 50' box cars kits and it will roll about 5 feet if i sneeze.

  many guys don't have enough main line to run really long trains so free rolling cars are not going to be so big an issue with them.

grizlump

[Pruitt]

I don't do wheel replacement - I do truck replacement.

Before I started replacing the trucks, the plastic wheels picked up black gunk off the track. Every six months to a year I'd have to clean all my wheels. The metal wheels that come on the sprung trucks I use don't pick up that black gunk at all. I never have to clean the wheels.

I read somewhere (MR or RMC) that the gunk on plastic wheels is picked up due to some sort of static electricity build-up or something.

Another advantage of metal wheels is that they lower the CG of the car and make them track better (fewer derailments, though that may also be partly due to using sprung trucks) and leave them less prone to "stringlining."

[grizlump9]

 the above post makes a valid point and i won't take issue with anyone who want to use all sprung and equalized trucks.  it would be nice but i don't want to spend the 3 grand it would cost me to convert.

 however, i truly meant everything i said and i believe every other point of view was that poster's true believe based on experience.

 for my part, i haven't cleaned any wheels in years and years and am lucky enough to enjoy nearly 100% operating reliability with zero derailments and no engine stalls.  (unless i forget to line the switch back)

 there are a lot variables in this.  quality of track work, train length, frequency of operation, layout environment (humidity and dust) oil or solvent residue on the rails etc. etc.   what works for one may not be the case for someone else.

 there is nothing wrong with going with the best you can get but i just question whether or not it might be overkill for some of us.

grizlump

 

[BRAKIE]

As far as metal vs. plastic wheels I use both and to be honest I don't see that much of a difference between the two.

I suppose metal wheels is like clean track..A lot of hype over nothing made popular by infomercials found in magazines.

[Archer1]

griz - 

 To be honest with ya, I've been replacing most of the metal wheels (axles) on my N rolling stock with Atlas/MT plastic ones.  Current layout has been up and running for over a year and I've yet to clean the tracks or wheels.Haven't seen any problems to date. They are also quieter and seem to handle track imperfections better.

 The only advantage I can see to metal axles/wheels is that they are adjustable to get them to spec. Properly made one-piece plastic wheels, like the Atlas replacement wheels are to spec and just don't need adjustment. (Again, assuming quality castings and not the el cheapo axles that come on some of the lower priced trucks.)

 Basically, yeah, I think it's overkill.

 Archer

[DJO]

plastic weels run very quiet but put down crud on your tracks. anyway they did on my railroad.

[selector]

I don't find many dirty wheels, but the few that I have cleaned over the five years I have been in the hobby are such that plastic wheels outnumber the metal ones by about five to one in terms of which get dirtier and more often.

-Crandell

[wholeman]

With all of these arguments of plastic vs. metal and hearing that plastic wheels tend to pick up more dirt, I wonder if has something to do with the environment of the layout room.  I prefer metal wheels myself, but I wonder if humidity and particulate in the air has any affect.

[CP5415]

Having cars equipped with both plastic & metal wheels, I'm finding I like the sound & look of the metal ones. I have one spot on the mainline where i can hear a distinct clickity clack of the wheels.

I have found that the plastic ones do tend to aquire 'crud' on the treads & that I do have to clean them from time to time. Haven't had to clean the metals ones yet.

I have been s-l-o-w-l-y replacing the plastic ones.

Gordon