rs2mike Thanks for the history lesson chuck. It is interesting that they imported all their engines for such a long time. What time did you say you model? 1960 something right. I have seen some pretty cool layouts on utube of japanese railroads. It would be cool to see what you are doing. all we really see on this forum is north american prototypes. It would be neat to see japanese, southamerican, australian, and more european(especially russia they always have neat stuff very industrial in the look). Mike edit: I see 1964 in the signature
Thanks for the history lesson chuck. It is interesting that they imported all their engines for such a long time. What time did you say you model? 1960 something right. I have seen some pretty cool layouts on utube of japanese railroads. It would be cool to see what you are doing. all we really see on this forum is north american prototypes. It would be neat to see japanese, southamerican, australian, and more european(especially russia they always have neat stuff very industrial in the look).
Mike
edit: I see 1964 in the signature
If you're really interested in Australian, you might want to follow Blair Kooistra's blog http://northofnarrabri.blogspot.com/ . He's decided to model a New South Wales branch. He's also got links to other Aussie sites.
Red Star Models (Russian prototype) http://www.redstarrailways.com/models.asp
Andre
alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)
Howdy, Mike,
Benkei was American-built, to American standards, as part of a Japanese order for a railroad in Hokkaido that was later nationalized. Japan imported all of their locomotives until sometime after 1900, by which time they had developed the industrial base necessary to build their own. This led to the interesting situation that each little local railroad had ordered their own, from America (Porter, Brooks, Baldwin, Alco...) Germany (I have a model of a locomotive built by Hohenzollern in 1873) and England. Since the different countries' designs were rather distinctive (and very different from one another) a major junction of about 1900 would have been a hodge-podge of (by our standards) odd-looking locomotives.
Later, the man who became the chief mechanical officer of the Imperial Government Railways standarized everything on a hybrid of basic German design, from which the distinctive JNR 'look' developed.
Because they weren't really suitable for line-haul work, the 7100s ended up as industrial switchers - and thereby survived to be preserved. Most of their contemporaries had been converted to battleship armor years before the preservation movement got into gear.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Thanks everyone for the replys. I have the little guy in 91% alc right now to strip off the 5 layers of paint that is hiding the corrosion. I have an air eraser as well that will probably be put to use on this little guy as well. I will look into the mantua engine. Fortunately there are a few trainshows coming up in the very near future so that will be an item I will be on the lookout for. I am still watching the ebay auctions. There is an arbour models train in pieces that I think will work with a little mod on the sliders.
Chuck thanks for the info on this little engine. So is this an american prototype or is this more a japanese prototype? Either way this should be an interesting rebuild. Practice for a business I want to start on the side. Got a few sent to me to fix in O scale not to mention all the projects I got of my own at the moment.
If worst comes to absoulute worst I can use it as the shop queen looking to be rebuilt. That won't go over well with the wife as this was supposed to be a fix and sell item. Little more wrong than described. oh well.
Thanks again everyone. If anything else comes to mind please let me know. If there is a bracket that would be good could someone give me a part number.
Thanks again
Hi, I'm not sure if this is a Ken Kidder as I bought it second hand in the 70's. It looks a lot like yours.
It shouldn't be too hard to fabricate the rods as they look like pressed steel.
Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)
About the headlight (which no one has mentioned until now...)
Apparently the Imperial Government Railways 7100 class (Their official designation for most of their working lives) was delivered (between 1880 and 1889, not 1873 - my bad) with big, boxy vaporizing oil headlights, supported on a side-braced square frame that projected out ahead of the stack and a few inches above the smokebox top. They also had the fenders above the drivers.
Later in life, the big box was replaced by a much smaller round carbide headlight, still mounted on the original support frame.
At least one of the locomotives (number not visible in the undated photograph) had its smokebox lengthened, the diamond stack replaced by a shotgun stack and the big box headlight mounted on top of the smokebox extension. That particular locomotive had lost its driver fenders.
The preserved locomotives have diamond stacks, carbide headlights and no sign of air compressor installation - they were withdrawn from service before the changeover from vacuum brakes to air brakes. They also retained their bells (most unusual in Japan) and have no sign of a generator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JNR7101Benkei.jpg
This is Benkei as she appears today, preserved under cover in the National Railroad Museum.
I'm going to toss a few ideas around. I own the HOn3 of this engine (if this is HO) or if this is the N3 version.. anyways..mine is complete and not parting out --8-P
I bought an 0-4-2, I think its a kidder also, but one of the rods was off and a siderod screw was half broken difficult to get the srew out, nice little engine, it could run without the rods. I found another on ebay needing a fixme-up, that was about 100 buckeroos, now I own 2 0-4-2's HOn3...I found I could swap parts around and get one good engine, but then I would rework the other engine with new parts like from Precision scale and maybe get the other one working as well.
Then again, for you, give up on the original cylinders and drive rods and get a new compatible cylinder and matching rods to fit from PSC or others, it would be higher detail and maybe happier for the mod.
Its tough finding exact parts like this, if you find a functional other side rods, you might want to match them up using the same for both sides and store away the original while you keep scrounging for a matching rod.
To me the better fix is changing the cylinders and rods. I have the PSC steam catalog I may peruse around on it myself.
This loco has similar issues. If worse comes to worse, you could use the loco as a static display in your shop area.
I took a look in my Precision Scale catolog and didn't come up with anything That would work as a direct replacement. That stamped cross head and the way it slides on the guide is kind of unique design. I agree with the other coment that the Mantua 0-4-0 main rods and cross heads may be your best bet. The Mantua Crossheads won't work on the guides on your model, so you'll have to adapt the Mantua cross head guides as well. It appears as though your model is already missing a guide anyway, so you were going to have to do something with them regardless.
As was already mentioned, the distance between the holes on the main rod may need to be adjusted to work with your model.
Picking up an old junker for parts would definitely be the eaiest way to go.
John
rs2mike Thanks guys. I am watching a couple on ebay right now. there is also a parts set from arbour models and the other is a balboa fully done rig that I may buy and use the other one as parts. Are arbour models, balboa and ken kidder similar? Thanks Mike
Thanks guys. I am watching a couple on ebay right now. there is also a parts set from arbour models and the other is a balboa fully done rig that I may buy and use the other one as parts.
Are arbour models, balboa and ken kidder similar?
Thanks
Mike - it looks like the rods from Arbour Models partial kit are designed for upper AND lower guides, so they wouldn't work. On the otherhand, the Balboa 2-6-0 on eBay does look to me to be virtually identical with your Ken Kidder example, except for a couple of insignificant details.
CNJ831
One solution is to do what the prototypes did: scavenge parts from sister locomotives. Acquire another KK 2-6-0 for the missing parts, hoping to find one with running gear and perhaps major superstructure damage so the price will be right.
Mark
HOWEVER, I would take a careful look into the main rods for the Mantua 0-4-0 , available from Yardbird http://yardbirdtrains.com/YBSMparts.htm , part M7104C,.....
CNJ's right on this one. IMHO, it's probably your best bet. The only real issue is the distance between the crosshead mounting point and where the rod fits onto the crankpin. As long as the crosshead won't hit the cylinder, it'll work mechanically. If the rod's too long, you could dismount the crosshead and shorten the main rod, drill a hole and remount the crosshead to the rod. Since you'll destroy the original rivets, you'll need to replace them. Precision Scale has valve gear rivets in varying sizes.
For what ever help it might provide, you can see a fully intact example of this locomotive up on eBay right now, under th Ken Kidder heading. Your's clearly needs a lot of work, I'm afraid, to resort its semi-original appearance. I'm not at all sure that anything on the market today will exactly replace that valve gear, short of fabricating it yourself.
HOWEVER, I would take a careful look into the main rods for the Mantua 0-4-0 , available from Yardbird http://yardbirdtrains.com/YBSMparts.htm , part M7104C, or perhaps even those for the Mantua 4-6-2, which are longer, providing that the additional valve gear is removed from the main rod. These are at least rather similar and might be adapted.
Ok here are some pics of the 2-6-0. hope these help.
Thanks everyone for the help. After I finish painting the kitchen today I will take some pics and measurements.
Unless I've badly mis-remembered, the Ken Kidder Porter mogul is a 1:80 (HOj) scale model of Benkei, second locomotive of the first class of American-built Japanese steam locomotives, circa 1873. Ken Kidder was good for importing models of American-built prototypes being sold on the Japanese market, including several Baldwins and a few 'foobies.' He didn't have to pay for tooling.
I don't know which Japanese firm built Benkei, but I do know that it hasn't been mentioned in Tetsudo Mokei Shumi (the Japanese-language equivalent of Model Railroader) for many years. My bet is that the original manufacturer went out of business or moved on to other things, the tooling was either scrapped or is in some dusty storeroom somewhere and the people who actually did the fabrication and assembly are either retired or have gone to join their ancestors.
Other Japanese-prototype brass from the same period is still being manufactured (including at least one that Kidder imported, a 'foobie' 0-6-0T) and sold in Japan - at fifteen times the prices I paid in Yen in the 1960s. Considering that the dollar only exchanges for 1/4 the number of Yen...
Sorry I can't be more helpful.
John (onequiknova) is correct. Ken Kidder has been gone from the marketplace a very long time. In addition, such early imported models, of which I seem to recall the 2-6-0 was one (circa 1960), were unique items using parts not elsewhere reproduced and certainly not built from any industry standard parts. Simple add-on pieces like a headlight, etc. can, of course, be replaced with currently available similar brass castings from the likes of PSC, et al, but replacement valve gear parts that are exact fits and will operate properly, are particularly unlikely to be found commercially available today, I'm afraid.
I'm not familiar with the Kidder 4-6-0, but if it's like most brass steam, finding original replacement parts will be next to impossible. Thats not to say your completely out of luck. The headlight, bracket and drawbar can all be had from companies like Precision Scale or Cal Scale and be made to fit with little modification.
The missing valve gear parts could be a problem though. By you saying "I am missing one of the valve gear rods and sliders" I am guessing your refering to the cross head and it's adjoining main rod. Precision scale sells a few different sized crossheads and main rods that MAY fit your engine without modification, but the chances of that happening are pretty slim. You'll most likely have to modify things to make it work.
If you can provide some pictures of the engine and some measurements of the missing parts from the other side of the engine, I can take a look at my Precision Scale catolog and see if anything will work for you.
John.
Greenway also has some nice stuff. Between them and PCS you should be able to get everythng you need.
Mike:
If I were you, I'd check with Precision Scale. They offer a really complete line of brass castings, and also carry the Kemtron line which might have some replacement parts that would work on the Kidder locomotive. Check your LHS for their brass catalogue--it's pretty complete. At least it might be a start.
Good luck.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Hey guys and gals,
I just came upon a brass ken kidder 2-6-0. It is kind of a work in progress. First off I will need some parts. I am missing one of the valve gear rods and sliders. Can I get one of those somewhere? I also need a mounting bracket for the light and the light itself. Lastly I need the pin that attached the engine to the tender. It is the same type of pin assembly as a rivarossi engine. Am I out of luck on this stuff or is there somewhere can get this suff or build this stuff. I will try to post some pics tomorrow.