Need a little help from folks that have extra gear you don't need.

[selector]

Time to lock this.  Those who wish to do as Ken asks can PM him from this point on.  Those who wish to lecture...

-Crandell

[locked]

P.S. - you were right, Tom.

[blownout cylinder]

Everybody is playing verbal kung fu I see 

jasperofzeal

selector

Keep the moralizing out of the thread.  It is off topic.

This is the main problem with a lot of the members here, lack of morals, and this comment coming from you no less.  You're in a position of "authority", you need to choose your words more carefully and not give the impression the it's not okay to be a decent person.

There was an old saying about judging others and how they do things----do not judge lest you be judged on those standards. As one of these members I feel that the no moralizing thing keeps us from getting into these verbal kung fu sessions. For that too is not useful---it becomes a battle ground.

Here is a radical concept ---let those who want to help Ken do so. And those who don't do not need to kvetch------

[jasperofzeal]

Allegheny2-6-6-6

You know I wasn't going to bother answering such a stupid comment but when someone quotes me out of context it really I leave out the expletive off!

I didn't quote you out of context, I just pointed out that advice comes in many different forms.  This is a model railroad website, but behind all that we're people with real lives and problems and whatnot.  If someone offered me advice that is not train related, I'm not going to bite their head off, I'll take it for what it is: ADVICE.  Looks like the ignorant one is you, for not being able to see the big picture.

Allegheny2-6-6-6

So if someone wants to give some stuff to a guy out of the kindness of their heart who is anyone to question that, not anyone who walks this earth thats for sure.

It's great that there are generous people around and I applaud them for wanting to help, nothing wrong with any of that.  If I had things that I wanted to part with I'd consider sending them to Ken, maybe another time.

selector

Keep the moralizing out of the thread.  It is off topic.

This is the main problem with a lot of the members here, lack of morals, and this comment coming from you no less.  You're in a position of "authority", you need to choose your words more carefully and not give the impression the it's not okay to be a decent person.

[EMD F7A]

It pains me to see people actually wanting to deny the gift of some nice toys to someone who does not have nice toys. I don't give a rat's behind about his finances or his thriftiness or anything else! Who in the world wouldn't want something nice for nothing? I've bought a sandwich for a homeless man, I didn't ask if he had a hungry family.

Why is there anything wrong with giving a gift? Just because some of YOU guys spend thousands on your trains, doesn't mean this guy wouldn't be happy with a $27 Lifelike starter set and some shoeboxes with buildings drawn on them to look like houses. Jeez, have a heart!

__________________________________

Sorry, forgot to add- I have two flipper-paddle power packs I'll ship out ASAP (that's all the HO compatible stuff I have), so send me an address :)  Now back to the coffee and daydreaming of RS-11's and coal plants.....

[ranchero]

 cuda has helped me in my time of needs too, i can spare soemthing for his friends, or maybe trade him for something i might need and that he might use too .. just PM me ken if u will

[Pennsy nut]

I have a Proto 2000 Pennsy SW9 for you Ken.  Let us know what else you need and I'm sure everyone who is of a mind to help, can pitch in.

And I don't need any more PMs telling me not to help...  I am a grown adult and can make my own decisions on who I want to lend a hand to.   

[selector]

This is Kens' initiative, he has defined it, and he has asked for help in a specific way.  Help in the way Ken asks, or do not.  

Everything else is just opinion, and does nothing to help Ken do what he wishes to do.

Keep the moralizing out of the thread.  It is off topic.

Thanks.

-Crandell

[climaxpwr]

We need an update from Ken on whats been donated and whats needed still.  Do we have a good locomotive, preferable an Athearn blue box unit or early Proto2K diesel with new axle gears, do we have a power supply lined up yet.  Instead of the moral argements going on, lets organize this and give this gentleman some enjoyment to help with the stress this horrible economy has dealt us.  I know without my hobby I would also be in jail or loony bin by now.  Yes job/finding work and keeping the roof over my familys head comes first as it should, but everybody needs a break, something to get thier mind off the problems at hand to where the biggest problem is keeping the train on the track. It allows the mind to unwind and relax, only then can we take a fresh look at life's larger problems and tackle them like mature adults.  If I lived closer I would help build the layout and fine tune the Athearn engine and upgrade to LED headlights.  I do all the repair work for the local hobby shop and many times repair engines for the less fortunate and many times dont charge them a dime.  The smile on thier face and appreciation is payment enough for me.  Ok Ken, what do we need to get a train running?   I can come up with a brand new Athearn Blue Box SP Trainmaster for $22 plus tax from the local hobby shop if we need an engine, it has metal trucks, and is one of the better looking older blue box units.  The shop has an excellent supply of blue box engines if we need to go that route.  I have a GP9 shell if someone has a spare power chassis, the shell is compelete with all handrails and details.  I also have an Athearn EMD Demo SD-45 that I would be willing to donate to the cause.  What ever is needed, let me know.   Mike and Michele T

[aloco]

Silver Pilot

Dyed sawdust for grass??  Are you seriously recommending that anyone, regardless of budget, actually use dyed sawdust as grass. 

I have dyed sawdust grass on my layout.   It doesn't bother me. 

Silver Pilot

Our suggestions considered not just ken's friend but his family and the responsibility he has to provide for them and  to not be selfish in meeting just his own needs or desires to have a hobby to occupy his mind and time.  His focus needs to be on how to improve the situation he's in, not on daydreaming about his payout and what he's going to work on on the layout when he gets home.

How do you know he is going to neglect the needs of his family for model railroading? 

Silver Pilot

I'd much rather being sitting on the high horse called morailty than being wallowing below by suggesting he ignore his responsibilities to his family.    I'd much rather be recognized for morailty and the strength to say NO than to give in a suggest something which i see as being to wrong approach for a person of very limited financial resources.  To talk morailty you must first have it.

 

You are imagining things.  None of us suggested in any way that he ignore his family responsibilities.  

 

[mononguy63]

Okay, time out everybody. Let's not get this thread locked or deleted so there's no chance at all for those who might want to pitch in to do so.

I you want to help Ken, then do it. If you don't, then don't. Flaming wars over the appropriateness of this or the morality of that gets everybody nowhere. Do I have to treat you like my kids and send you to your rooms until you can cool down and be civil?

[Silver Pilot]

I was going to let this thread die the slow death it should but, since Allegheny man went and started shooting from somewhere other than his hip, a response to his ignorance is necessary.

Dyed sawdust for grass??  Are you seriously recommending that anyone, regardless of budget, actually use dyed sawdust as grass.  I haven't seen that sold or used on 35+ years.

Advice like how to weather cars cheaply.  Is that what we should have been responding with?  OK, here you go - leave it outside for a few weeks or make some mud with the FREE dirt you sifted and put it on the car.  is that the kind of free advice we should be giving?

The advice given came from reasonable, responsible people who thought of this man's family first and the obligation he has to them.  They provide the resopnsible advice that before starting a new hobby you need to have meet your other obligations to provide for your family.

To those who have responded that the hobby got them through tough times - great, but where you already in the hobby when you fell on tough times?  Or did you get into the hobby because you needed something to occupy your idle time while out of work?  Based on the comments made you were already in the hobby.

Speaking from the high horse called morality that others have seemed to think those of us suggested he have other priorities ride on, I look down and respond that we suggested a responsible, practical approach that considered more than just doing a good deed by giving away some of our junk to someone.  Our suggestions considered not just ken's friend but his family and the responsibility he has to provide for them and  to not be selfish in meeting just his own needs or desires to have a hobby to occupy his mind and time.  His focus needs to be on how to improve the situation he's in, not on daydreaming about his payout and what he's going to work on on the layout when he gets home.

I'd much rather being sitting on the high horse called morailty than being wallowing below by suggesting he ignore his responsibilities to his family.  I wonder how many of the people who are willing to provide ken's friend with supplies would also be willing to send $ when he needs it?  If you really believe in what Ken is doing than do just give this guy your unused junk, give something good, something that will run well, something you use currently but will be put to even better use by his friend.  KEN - why don'tyou part with one of the BLI locomotives you have or one of those sets of F units?  You have plenty, if you want to get him started on the right track give some of your good stuff, not the junk.  As the saying goes, Put you money where your mouth is.  Give up something good.  JOHNBOY - don;t talk about what the 'good book' says - DO IT, give him one of your good engines and a few cars.  Be the example of charity that you mentioned in your post.  If you really believe what your posting then he should have a good layout.  Go out and buy something new and send it to him.

For those who suggest we sit on a high horse called morality line 2-6-6-6 did.  Thanks for the compliment.  I'd much rather be recognized for morailty and the strength to say NO than to give in a suggest something which i see as being to wrong approach for a person of very limited financial resources.  To talk morailty you must first have it.

[rdgk1se3019]

 Some of you people here really sit on a very high horse

I have been out of work for over a year myself.

If it was not for the fact that I have a hobby ...I just might be in jail or maybe would have turned to booze by now.

You people should give credit to Cuda Ken for wanting to help out someone to get into this hobby we all share.

 I had a bad year for 2009......I only worked seven ( 7 ) weeks for the year..........and I lost my d ad back in July

If it was not for me having a hobby then I don`t know what I would have done with myself.

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

"We are here as model railroaders to give advice and help in what ever form we know how or are willing to do"

 

You know I wasn't going to bother answering such a stupid comment but when someone quotes me out of context it really I leave out the expletive off! If you are so ignorant or arrogant to not see the obvious when I say give advice I am referring to modeling advice IE: how to weather a locomotive, how to properly ballast track , how to set make the horn louder on my brand X sound decoder louder or play Dixie. not for ask for or want advice on life and it's responsibilities. I must have read the title of this message board wrong I thought it was Model Railroader not Model Railroader and why you should or should not being the hobby or not or what you should or shouldn't do with your life.This is a grown man we're talking about here one who only is trying to do a decent thing and help out a friend and the other through not fault of his own my not be in the best of circumstance but is still doing the best he can with what he has to work with. The decision weather or not he can afford the hobby is his and his alone, he has the same right as anyone else here to enjoy model railroading to what ever degree he wishes. Perhaps at this point in time he may get into it and fine out he doesn't like it or find out he does and works with in his means.You know contrary to what a lot may think, you don't need to spend a lot of money in this hobby to enjoy it. Maybe give advice in the form where it's best appreciated. I haven't heard one of you high and mighty advice givers say well you know here's a cheap way to do scenery or here's a way to weather or detail your rolling stock on the cheap, hey if you want to make dirt ground cover try using real dirt sifted through a screen it's FREE, or get yourself a bucket of FREE saw dust to be had at any lumberyard or hoe center and get a box of Dye for under a buck and make your own grass. Thats the kind of advice that I was referring to and is constructive and non judgmental.

So if someone wants to give some stuff to a guy out of the kindness of their heart who is anyone to question that, not anyone who walks this earth thats for sure.

Oh and by the way only an IDIOT would give a loaded gun to a monkey

[Jimmydieselfan]

Jesus you guys, isn't this a train forum? Lets leave the advice about how someone should live their life to Dear Abby.

I say if someone has spare stuff they don't need or want , they should send it to Cuda. Get over it all of you how to live life experts.

[jasperofzeal]

Allegheny2-6-6-6

We are here as model railroaders to give advice and help in what ever form we know how or are willing to do.

Some people did give their advice, and it was that it's probably not a good idea to start someone off in a hobby that would tempt him to spend his (maybe limited) resources on unimportant things.  You give a gun to a monkey and the monkey shoots someone, well you don't blame the monkey.

[aloco]

 

Allegheny2-6-6-6

I can not believe some of the response of those up on high sitting on your high horse spouting a morality lesson. Plain and simple Ken is just trying to do something nice for a friend and you all turn it into a sermon on how this person should prioritize his life and put his nose to the grind stone and all the BS thats been spouted.

I'm glad you said that.  I have a few choice words for those spouting 'morality lessons' but I won't mention them here. 

[wholeman]

Allegheny, I can't agree more with what you just posted.  I wholeheartedly agree.  I was jobless last year and this hobby is what kept my sanity. 

Ken, if you would like I will be more that happy to send some things.  I need to inventory what I would like to get rid of and send you a PM.

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 I can not believe some of the response of those up on high sitting on your high horse spouting a morality lesson. Plain and simple Ken is just trying to do something nice for a friend and you all turn it into a sermon on how this person should prioritize his life and put his nose to the grind stone and all the BS thats been spouted. The man has a job and is supporting his family he like many of us not retired and living off their  401K or their pensions feel you have the right to pass judgment on someone who has less then you do and until he meets your standards he should have nothing, do nothing and think about nothing other then the situation he is in.  Being nice for the moderators it's what I mucked out of the stalls this morning at 5:00am

Oh wait times are tough here at the ranch maybe I ought to go out and shoot my son's pets and put them in the freezer because you know putting food on the table is the highest priority, I guess that trumped being a human being and giving a helping had to fellow man. Guess I aught to also go back to church and take back the couple of bucks I tossed in the collection basket too, never know might need a gallon of gas.

We are here as model railroaders to give advice and help in what ever form we know how or are willing to do. If your not interesting in helping someone who has less then you then thats your option but spare us the morality call and the judgmental advice. Didn't your mother ever tell you if you have nothing nice to say about someone say nothing at all.

Ken you got my PM the offer still stands and I have a few other things cluttering up the shelf I would be willing to toss in the box. 

[Hamltnblue]

I understand what you're trying to do cuda, but you can ask for food, money, help with home repairs or whatever, but the last thing anyone without a job should want is help with train stuff. God bless him and his family and I hope he has a good 2010.

[last mountain & eastern hogger]

Good on ya CudaKen.

I read somewhere in a good book something that went  like this,

"Whatsoever you do unto the least of these, you do so unto me"  possible not word for word

but I think you get my drift.     There but for the grace of God go I.

Help your friend out and share your layout, experience and knowledge with him.

Give encouragement and it is also a good example for the kids of Charity , friendship and support that at sometime

in their lives, they will want to return the gesture to another who is in need.  (A great teaching moment)

THAT is what good friends do.

From the first book of John,   me that is...............

Johnboy out..............................for now.

[cudaken]

 Ruderunner, I will send a E-Mail Monday, I am off then.

 Other that are willing to help, please PM me here at the site. Ruderunner if you don't mind PM me as well.

 As far as the responses, not really sure how to take the mix reviews? Lot of you seem to get the idea that what I am trying to give Jeremy and his kids is something to look forward to besides the bills. I am sure Jeremy like my self while waiting for a customer is thinking about the bills. But, can daydream about what I want to do next on my railroad, that is something Jeremy does not have the luxury of doing.

 Far as lumber cost, I not trying to fund the next MRR feature article. Sheet of plywood 4 X 8 was around $18.00 last time I looked. 2 X 4 where around $2.50 each, have them ripped in half (no such thing as a straight 2 X 4) he would need around $17.50 plus $18.00 for around $35.50. Or he could what I did, look for scrapes from building site and old pallets. I all wise asked first before I took.

 Cost of repairing of cars? He have to run them a lot like me before that would be a factor. If or when it does happen, well that what friends is all about, right?

 Far as the responses to keep the nose to the grind stone and eat bread and water answers. I all so understand. But you need a dream to keep your soul a live. With out a dream, you are waiting to become worm food.

 Little disappointed Cuda Ken 

[luvadj]

 Ken;

That's an admirable thing you're doing for your friend and there's nothing wrong with it. Back in October '07, I was layed off from a great job without warning. Everyday I pounded the streets looking for work but there were only so many places you could go in a town of 45K, so a couple of hours later I was home again.....

The only thing that saved my sanity and my pride besides my wife and my daughters was my time spent on the layout....there's nothing wrong with a good hobby to take your mind off of the problems of the moment...

Best of luck to both of you....

[citylimits]

I think that is a pretty thoughtful gesture wanting to help out a friend, Cuda.

A helping hand and a willing heart is often what some folks need - regretfully even that is a point of resentment by others who worship at the font of tired economic ideology. In real terms though, life is never that simple.

I feel blessed that I have been given boxes of models and information and have in turn been lucky enough to have been given opportunities to extend  help to other modelers who have been down on their luck - it's often been about making new friends than justs giving a hand out.

I have some spare freight cars if your freind need some of these, but it looks like you may have these covered. Let me know anyway. I have some old brass turn-outs if they can be but to good use.

Bruce

 

[Silver Pilot]

csxns

Pennsy nut

say anywhere in there that he or his friend are running out to 'buy" anything

Well said.

So when the donated equipment is broken and needs to be fixed, then what?  Does he throw it out?  Try to fix it?  With what from where?  From donated stuff or does he go out and BUY the parts to repair or even upgrade the donated items?  Ask Ken how much money he spent repairing/ rebuilding/ upgrading the old Tyco, Bachmann and LIfe-like stuff he started with.  New couplers, new wheels to replace the talgo trucks, new metals wheels to improve the tracking so they stay on the track.It all adds up.  Heck he'll have $40-50 in plywood and such just to build a tabletop.  Or will someone donate and ship that also??

I was out of work for a year.  I know what its like to have NO income to speak of.  You put the trains away because even the most basic project still requires something.  Want to build one of the car kits you've acquired over the years.  You probably need some glue, maybe some paint, want to replace the couplers with KDs, or change out the plastic wheels.  That all adds up.  Same thing with a simply paint & decal project.  Need subject to work on if its not in your inventory.  Might need paint, dullcote etc.  Sure its not much WHEN YOU HAVE A JOB, but when you're unemployed or living $80/wk that $10 at the LHS is 12.5% of your take home pay.  A couple pounds of ground beef, a few gallons of gas or at least something for an emergency.

Donating stuff to Ken's friend seems like a nice gesture at first glance, but its not what he needs at this time.  We all know how addictive this hobby can be.  Getting him started by giving him a few things only starts the addiction.  Let go over to Ken's and play until he financially more stable.

[csxns]

Pennsy nut

say anywhere in there that he or his friend are running out to 'buy" anything

Well said.

[Pennsy nut]

If you read Ken's post, it doesn't say anywhere in there that he or his friend are running out to 'buy" anything...  I think that was the whole point of the thread in the first place.  Men with little or no income are under a ton of stress to provide for thier families.  An hour tinkering with some hand-me-downs each evening could make the difference between the guy making it through these hard times or ending up like some we hear about on the news...

Ken, I think its great that you are trying to give your freind a healthy and good outlet for his stress.  Better than taking him down the street to the bar.  PM me an address and I'll send a Pennsy switcher that I don't have plans for.  Might have some other odds and ends I could throw in the box too...

Bret

[Rdrr]

Wow. A nerve has been struck. Easy to see what's in the front of everyones' mind these days. I'm heading to the Amherst show in a few weeks as I have every year for the past ten years or so. As I'm self employed and have no idea what this coming year will bring I won't be buying much if anything. Might need that money for groceries down the road, it is all about priorities.  

As my (also self employed) father used to say; " Some days chicken, some days feathers" These are feather days.

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

Allegheny2-6-6-6

 Sheldon, Your right no one owe anyone anything and I am lucky enough to have my business here and my "regular" day job was just for benefits and added income. I learned my lesson a long time a go never to rely on anyone but myself. They aren't beating a path to my door step but I keep busy and take care of business at home first things first. Not every thing we do in life needs to have a bottom line or a payout. If that were the case then I guess I should have spent the last two weeks with my nose buried in the classified section rather then being down at the VA helping some baby faced Marine learn how to tie his shoes & hold a pen  with his new prosthetic hands. No matter how bad we think we have it there is always someone out there who has it worse off then we do.

All this is is simply paying it forward if you will good karma you do something nice for someone because you want to with no strings attached plain and simple.     Ken you may want to check out on Yahoo groups "free cycle" it's a group started by people to hep keep things they no longer want from winding up in the landfill. People post stuff they no longer have a use for rather then throw it away. My wife found me two complete HO train sets there a while back, only kep the locomotives but gave the rest of the stuff to the neighbors kid down the rd. There is also a group called cheap cycle the same premise but stuff is sold at a real cheap price.

I agree completely, helping others is a great thing and I do what I can as well.

Today, however it seems far too many people "expect" someone to "save" them rather than helping themselves.

And far too many are unwilling to properly prioritize their needs and wants.

And, if I may say so, far too many hard working people like us fall into "feeling sorry" and fail to use good judgement regarding who really needs help and who is just taking advantage.

Truely one of those subjects in life that requires "balance".

And, one must take good care of one's self and family first before trying too hard for others.

"A man's first obligation to the society is to take care of himself and his family, so no one else has to" - Adam Smith - Wealth of Nations, 1776.

And I agree, not wasting and not sending things to landfills is a great idea. I do similar things with most everything I am "finished" with. But as I said before, I am a carefull purchaser in the first place, with trains and most everything, so I avoid a lot of that problem up front.

Take care,

Sheldon

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

 Sheldon, Your right no one owe anyone anything and I am lucky enough to have my business here and my "regular" day job was just for benefits and added income. I learned my lesson a long time a go never to rely on anyone but myself. They aren't beating a path to my door step but I keep busy and take care of business at home first things first. Not every thing we do in life needs to have a bottom line or a payout. If that were the case then I guess I should have spent the last two weeks with my nose buried in the classified section rather then being down at the VA helping some baby faced Marine learn how to tie his shoes & hold a pen  with his new prosthetic hands. No matter how bad we think we have it there is always someone out there who has it worse off then we do.

All this is is simply paying it forward if you will good karma you do something nice for someone because you want to with no strings attached plain and simple.     Ken you may want to check out on Yahoo groups "free cycle" it's a group started by people to hep keep things they no longer want from winding up in the landfill. People post stuff they no longer have a use for rather then throw it away. My wife found me two complete HO train sets there a while back, only kep the locomotives but gave the rest of the stuff to the neighbors kid down the rd. There is also a group called cheap cycle the same premise but stuff is sold at a real cheap price.