Poor runners was an understatement. I had two when they were new. Both internally different. The frames and drivers will not interchange. One had small axles, small slots in the frames. The other had big rotating bits on the axles, which fit into larger frames. The insulators were different, too. I have bits of both left.
Had a hankering for one after I found a Hustler for my brother, so now I have another 0-4-2T, plus an 0-6-0...and parts of a Pacific, just for show.
Irv continually tried, from what I've read and heard over the decades, to make the steamers reliable.....finally gave up.
If I recall again, the cylinders had plastic bushing inserts for the piston rods so the wheels wouldn't short across.
TOC
D.
Thanks for doin' the work!
The missing width for the Athearn is 11'-6" over the cylinders, and about 10'-10" over the cab--a good bit wider there.
I note that the Athearn matches the photo better than the drawing with respect to the cab sides. Athearn didn't NECESSARILY use Westcott's drawing, as many of us have been assuming. Anyway, I'm inclined now to believe that the Athearn isn't that far off.
Your layout idea sounds like fun. I do hope you pick up the Suydam Day and Night Water Heater company (interior and lights, please). That was one of my faves from the old days. Lemme see now, for buildings there was Suydam, Alexander, Mainline (I built their station), and Ayers. Oh, yeah, and Revell and Atlas. Of course, a lot of that stuff was stations and other railroad related buildings. I look forward to someday seeing what you decide to put together.
Ed
If memory serves Athearn took liberties with their steam locos -- wasn't the Boston & Maine 4-6-2 off by a number of key measurements so that the mechanism would fit? And of course for years their EMD Geeps had bodies that were wider than prototype to accomodate the motors. So I would not get too hung up on measurement comparisons.
Dave Nelson
Ed sez: This picture looks really close to the Athearn engine to me, though I still think the Athearn has been enlarged:
This picture looks really close to the Athearn engine to me, though I still think the Athearn has been enlarged:
Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle! That is a linebacker of a tank engine. That thing above the domes has just got to be an intravenous steroid drip-reservoir.
Fortunately, there is an Athearn ad-photo from very much the same angle (but with a different focal-length lens which changes the perspective).
They do look mighty similar. I'm still inclined to think the Maryland engine has a heavier boiler, but now I can see that much of its "beefy" quality is because its tank is wider - all the way to the cab sides. Also, the model loses some of it's sense of visual power, because Athearn gave it small, straight-sided, flat-topped domes which are not typical of Vulcans (tapered, rounded domes) and just look wimpy.
Maybe one of the fine folks who have the Model Railroader DVD can do a search for the plan and compare with the above dimensions.
All right; all right. You pushed me to move out of the recliner. I searched through the pile of Carol's bead-jewelry tools and materials, and recovered my MR DVD set. I found the 1939 drawing (I would have sworn it was in the Fifties, but by then Westcott wasn't jockeying a T-square any more, so I should have known). I brought it into a vector-drawing program gridded off in eighths. And started measuring. Let's see if Kalmbach lets me get away with this:
(Copyright, trademark and the rest of it, Model Railroader mag 1939.)
Here are the drawing measurements, Athearns (courtesy of Ed), and Vulcan's 1913 specs for their largest 0-4-2T.
Athearn got it very, very close to the drawing, and also to the factory specs, except for the drivers (the actual loco must have looked like it was on a skateboard). Please remember, the Vulcan specs are for 1913 models; the Athearn is probably patterned on a somewhat later model.
I am very fond of my Athearn 0-4-2T and take it out for a spin every once in awhile. Like right now!!
I'm a fan, too. The Athearn 0-4-2 was my first HO locomotive, back in 1962. Most people say they are poor runners, and you couldn't prove them wrong by mine, so it doesn't see much action. I've been considering repowering/regearing it so it can be the star of a very small industrial switching layout, similar to a Timesaver, but with full scenery - building flats, loading docks, etc. I'd like to do it all with 50s & 60s equipment and techniques - might cheat on the control and the track (can I plate Peco to look like brass? ).
-- D
Dave,
Since I'm a wee bit short of the 1937 issues, and since I've corrected my mis-measure just above, could you possibly take some measurement off the plan? Say, the three dimensions I noted.
7j43k I tried using the Trains.com search--it can't find it. And I too am not that interested in wading through back issues. Ed
I tried using the Trains.com search--it can't find it. And I too am not that interested in wading through back issues.
Ed, try the February 1937 issue (which I have in my hand as I type this) page 48. The plan is to 1/8" scale which was a common scale for drawing back when O scale was king. By the way -- the cover says "20 cents per copy;$2.00 a year."
But I do have the loco handy. It's 32'-6" over end beams, about 13'-6" over the stack and has 51" drivers (I just edited these numbers--darn scale rule is laid out different than what I'm used to.).
It's way bigger, I think, than the Navy engine.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/a.%20h.%20smith%20sand%20%2526%20gravel/Aa3rt/042T/042T.jpg
The loco worked for A. H. Smith Sand & Gravel in Maryland.
Thanks for the welcome, Stourbridge.
Ed - I don't find a lot of discrepancy between the actual and the Athearn 0-4-2Ts in the comparison below. (Compressor is missing on the first model).
The model's domes and windows are smaller with respect to the rest of the engine, so that gives the visual impression of a larger engine, but it could be a difference in style; the model looks to be taken from a slightly later prototype. Judging from the door, the Navy switcher seems to be about the same size to me. In 1913, Vulcan made 14 different models of the 0-4-2T, with 13 different overall lengths, from 15 to 30 feet. There are photos of a lighter and heavier version at:
http://www.ironhorse129.com/prototype/steamclass2004/vulcan/vulcan_0-4-2.htm:550:0
with links to the factory specs.
I'll bet Westcott's drawings and measurements are accurate for the particular engine represented (probably the largest of the catalogued Vulcans, and, judging from the cab style, a bit later than the shipyard switcher). Athearn may have increased the size a bit to make room for the mechanism, I suppose, but the proportions look right to me, compared with the Navy example. You may well be right, but I wonder if the Navy switcher in the photo might not be a bit larger than you are thinking.
If I were an energetic guy, I'd look up the Westcott drawings in the appropriate issue of MR (somewhere in 1959, I think), dig my Athearn model out of the box and and check it with a scale rule against the Westcott drawings. Fortunately, I'm not.
It's swell to see an 0-4-2T. I've got doubts that this loco maps directly to the Athearn engine. i believe the latter would be a much larger engine than the one shown in the photo. I also wonder about Westcott's plans. I haven't seen them for quite awhile, but my EXCEEDINGLY VAGUE recollection is that they matched the Athearn loco. Thus they would not match this little bitty fella.
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I happened to read this two-year-old thread while searching for something else, but I'd like to correct the misconception that the Athearn 0-4-2T was a fanciful design by Linn Westcott. The prototype was made by Vulcan Iron Works probably around 1913.
The confusion arises because Westcott was the drafter of the plans published in Model Railroader in the late '50s. He put the herald for his own fictional model railroad, the North-West RR, on the engine plans. Manufacturers working from the plans produced the loco at least twice, once in plastic and once in brass, and used the NW RR lettering and herald, not realizing that the road was fictional, even though the loco was authentic.
Ben Hall Yea that's the sought of thing I mean. There's probably heaps of different ones all around the place, prototypes all around the world. Conceptual? Would the Lil' Monster not have a prototype? "Highly unique" and "fanciful" were the words you used earlier. That is cool, highly unique! And I like that word fanciful! I would've used whimsical before then.
Yea that's the sought of thing I mean. There's probably heaps of different ones all around the place, prototypes all around the world. Conceptual? Would the Lil' Monster not have a prototype? "Highly unique" and "fanciful" were the words you used earlier. That is cool, highly unique! And I like that word fanciful! I would've used whimsical before then.
The Kemtron four wheel "trailing" truck for the Mantua 0-4-0 (since the finished model was actual meant to run backwards, these were "lead" trucks!) were more, or-less, meant to be tongue-in-cheek. They could not really be justified as a necessary support for the cab and tiny coal bunker of this loco. These same 4-wheel trucks, when applied along with certain other Kemtron parts, converted Varney's Docksider into a rather comical cab forward engine!
Similarly, the Lil' Monster was, as I recall, simply something from Linn Westcott's imagination when it was first presented in the pages of MR. However, it does at least vaguely resemble Berlin Mills' industrial engine and the diminutive NYC D1a 2-4-4T "suburban" locos found on their Yonkers Branch and the rear overhang on the Lil' Monster probably would require some sort of additional support in the real world.
Getting back nearer to the Lil' Monster concept, the Bachmann 0 6 0, 2 6 0, 2 6 2 all look very similar other than for their different leading or trailing axles or lack of them. Would these three all have real prototypes?
As far as I can tell, the older Bachmann 0-6-0, 2-6-0, 2-6-2 all share the same body shell...which is simply one for a yard switcher, not a normal road engine. This was pretty much just to simplify Bachmann's manufacturing process in a time when many hobbyists were less critical about a model's accuracy, rather than a respresentation of something real. IHC and Mantua took the same approach with their 0-8-0/2-8-0 engines.
CNJ831
I like your unique concept Ed. The Walthers spoked wheels sound good to. Thanks.
Some of the model trains I've seen have some very fanciful concepts. Two that come to mind straight up, are the Play Art/Model Power type 2 6 0, and the (Mantua?/Tyco?) small double ended 040 Plymouth diesel. I don't know if you people have noticed, but these two don't have any entry doors into the drivers compartment. I have the diesel in front of me. I really like it, it pulls well for it size, and looks good with its metal railings and General Electric markings, and has confused my friends and family when I've asked them what it lacks. No one notices! You have to show them, then it to obvious. I like the 2 6 0 to, but haven't got one yet because of the door thing.
I've been looking at the available axles/trucks and they look easy, very adaptable, and I'm also considering simply making one to suit. I have a flat brass guide-arm from a 1960s slot car chassis that looks very much like the trailing axle-frame I saw! Cut it down in length and solder a piece of brass tube to that and you'd have it. Thank again for your input and good help CNJ831.
Good on you sport. I've been looking at them to. Thank you Ed.
26 inch spoked
26 inch unspoked
Sorry amigos, it was very very late here in OZ when I did it and the old eyes aren't what were, but where I said, blocks what I really meant to say was, you blokes are great. Thanks again for the help and inspiration to continue the hunt for elusive after market trailing axle.
As for why a 0 4 2. I found a photo of an old time American engine that closely resembled a Lifelike Steam Kettle, only it had the extra axle (0 4 2) I've had a new Lima packaged Lifelike Steam Kettle, still sealed in its old bubble pack, sitting around for sometime and the photo I saw of this engine made me think about opening it. Thanks again to CN J831, Packer and Atlantic Central for the information and help and question.
Maybe I wasn't dreaming! You blokes are great, thanks for help.
Well my first question is why a 0-4-2, unless you are refering to a Forney type tank engine?
But, to answer your question, a number of companies still offer such parts. Try these:
http://www.precisionscaleco.com
http://greenwayproducts.com
I just recently purchased brass kits for delta trailing trucks from Precision Scale for a loco project. They had them in stock and shipped them right out. Precision Scale are the current owners of all the old Kemtron products, and most are still in the line, encluding the item I purchased.
Sheldon
Looks like Bowser made some, although I don't know if they actually have any since they quit making locomotive kits.
http://www.bowser-trains.com/hoother/Partref1.pdf
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
Some fifty years ago companies like Kemtron were famous for conversion kits/parts like this, used to transform various commercially available HO engines into highly unique, if perhaps somewhat fanciful, designs. They offered a 4-wheel trailing truck for the Mantua Booster which also could be employed as a 4-wheel lead truck on a Varney (today Bowser) Dockside "Cab Forward". To a degree, Walthers continued this practice, at least up until the early 1990's. Unfortunately, today very little is left in the way of aftermarket specialized parts.
I would suggest looking under listings for Cal Scale, or Precision, detail parts, if you can find a reference listing on-line, as one or the other might still stock such a trailing truck. Certainly, a 2-wheel Mantua lead truck could be adapted to the purpose, if a separate one could be found, but that company's stock of spare parts has passed from the scene as well. Off hand I can't think of anyone else who might still offer such an item today. (I've checked Yard Bird and they had nothing).
Hi there, I just signed up. Very late a few nights ago while looking at and lost in different sights about small 0 4 0s and the history and prototypes of some of the more common types, I saw an article that mentioned an after market trailing axle for a Lifelike or maybe it was Model Power 0 4 0. It actually showed a picture of this device or a picture of an advertisment about it. But after spending a couple of more late nights trying to retrace where I had been to see it, I gave up looking and am now seeking help to locate any information about it. It was very late at the time I saw it but I'm shaw I wasn't dreaming at the time. It was a small flat part that had a hole at one end to attach it to the loco and had two ears at the other end turned up with holes to take an axle. Can anyone help with any information about this part? It looked very simple and looked very easy to make but it would be good just to buy one if they are available.