Paulus JasWhy do you want a big train yard?
When I started I wanted a yard so I could run switchers. My present layout has no yard but I run switchers anyway.
EZ-Track can work well as long as it's laid properly. It can't just be pushed together and slapped down. There are some pieces, usually straights, that are bowed up at the ends. These will cause the ends of the loco and cars to rise and fall and can cause cars to uncouple. Usually sighting down the piece like you would a warped 2x4 will reveal the defect. That piece should be discarded or it can be used as a section for a display track. Some of the curves can be out a little bit causing the rail ends to not quite meet squarely. One of the pieces should be removed and replaced with a new one. The other one can be used elsewhere as long as it doesn't get connected to a piece sharing the same defect. Check to make that the rails go into the rail joiners. They are notorious for sliding under the ends of the rails. The track must be as flat as possible. Any grade must be started or ended very gradually. This can be difficult to achieve if there is no hard surface to anchor the track to. On a straight grade this can be done with a length of 2x4 until the track is flat relative to the surface it's on. Small blocks of wood can support the pieces between the top and bottom of the grade. A curved grade is a bit more difficult but it can be done. As for the turnouts, I have about a dozen of them on my layout. Six are #5's and the others are #4's. Even my big SDP40F's can negotiate the #4's without a problem. I've only had to replace one turnout and that was because it was damaged right out of the package. I only had problems with three, all #4's. Most of these involved point picking. A simple sharpening of the point rail fixed this in two of the cases. In the third case involved a point rail that was bent too far in to the center. I simply bent it into the right position with a pair of needle nosed pliers and haven't had a problem with it since. None of this requires one to be an Einstein but simply to apply a little common sense to the problem at hand. I've been running trains on my layout for years with only a few derailments, usually caused by me in one way or another. forgetting about a tool left on the track, throwing a turnout at the wrong time, etc.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
For sectional track that wont break the budget, look at Atlas's "snap" track, no roadbed, just good old fashioned nickle silver track that comes in many different lenghts, turnouts, curve diameters ect. I would stay with HO scale and avoid N, N is nice but is much harder to work with if you want to go DCC and Sound, it can be done though. Like they said, it is cheaper to get sound factory installed in the engine if you are wanting that, save up and get what you want the first time. For engines, Atlas, Athearn, Broadway Limited/Precision Scale Models are all good choices and the Broadways have sound in probably 80% of what they have made. They have a dual mode sound decoder that will operate on both DC and DCC. MRC has a new 2amp DC throttle that allows you to access most of the sound features. This is great to get started with till you want to go the DCC route. It retails up around 90-120 depending where you purchase it from. Keep in mind that a Digitrax Zepher starter DCC system isnt much more $$ so you might want to go that route. If you have a local club, drop in and see what members are running for engines, If they are like me, I will gladly hand over the throttle to a newbie and allow him to sample some different engines and show him how they run and operate. Whatever you do, first and foremost, have fun! Cheers Mike and Michele T
LHS mechanic and geniune train and antique garden tractor nut case!
Why start DC, when you can use a DCC box thatw ill also run DC? I have a Bachmann EZ-DCC set on Ebay right now for under $50, and N scale locos for $22. It's not expensive. The flip side is, it takes time and lots of patience, or you'll spend extra money re-buying the things you messed up if you skip steps building it! I can biuld a good N scale 2x4 layout for something like $225 to start so if I can do it, I'm sure you can! I make a game out of saving-up for things too, like "If I get a cheap lunch, that saved $5 is half a boxcar!" and etc. I say line up what you want, and skip the "middle steps". Oh and also, there's a heck of a lot of stuff in Norfolk Southern in N scale, so with the reduced size over HO you can build a much bigger yard in the same space. Sorry if I am reiterating comments by others, mainly replying to your post not the others. Cheers, and happyo holidays!
It is all doable, and the heavy majority of us have a good time with however we start in the hobby.
Yet, as many are suggesting, there are some 'efficiencies' that make our first experiences even better. I started in EZ-Track, and I enjoyed the first layout immensely. I didn't like having to tweak the expensive turnouts! EZ-Track should be better performers for the cost. But the rest is a good product, and I had a lot of fun. That lasted about one full year, and then I had to tear down the layout so that the basement could be finished properly. As I was mudding and sanding drywall I was thinking about how to improve what I had accomplished with the first land-fill project.
On my second effort, started just weeks after the basement project was done, I tried spline roadbed and I used flextrack sections. Really and truly, it is one of the great teaching processes in the hobby, how to lay good track. The railroads rely on big and well-taught departments to lay track.
I also purchased individual engines, good quality ones, that were NOT parts of train packages sold by the manufacturers. I knew enough about the hobby by then that those engines were too often, if not always, of lesser quality. I have only one Atlas diesel, a Fairbanks-Morse Trainmaster with QSI sound, and it is a marvel...a wonderful model. All the rest are BLI, Trix, Proto 200, or Rivarossi, all purchased separately, all acquired when prices were low, and all with DCC and sound decoders.
DC is simple on small layouts with one operater manipulating one engine at a time. Yet, as you say you will eventually convert to DCC, you will set aside an engine and a power pack that you paid for, unless you find a way to use them for other purposes, or unless you pay for, or convert yourself, the engine to DCC. The funny thing is, starting out in DCC is no more complicated, and it gives you more flexible operation of your train. In fact, you could have two of them operating on the layout and not have to throw toggles or rely on automatic relays to keep them from chasing each other.
I don't offer any judgement or guidance except to point out that, all things considered, would you rather do your learning in DC or in DCC if DCC is your eventual destination? You won't have to change anything about the tracks, except that the further you go in DC, the more likely it is that you will need other electronic fixtures to make your train operations more realistic, items that you will discard when you convert to DCC.
Just some thoughts.
-Crandell
Atlas, Athearn and Walthers are all respected names in model railroading. A train set by any of them will be quite satisfactory.
What do you have for train space? Are you planning on benchwork under your track or are you thinking of carpet running? Some people throw up a 4*8 table and then experiment with different track layouts. That's fun. Others draw scale plans for the entire railroad, room walls, location of obstacles like washing machines. water heaters and doors, the extent of the benchwork and the entire track diagram.
In case one you will want to expand the basic oval of track from the set with turnouts, crossovers, and a lot of straight and curved track. You want sectional track, aka Snap-Track for this sort of thing. Sectional track comes either "plain" (just a plastic tie strip under the rails) or "fancy" (a plastic ballast bed under the ties). Plain track from all makers will mate together. Fancy track is proprietary and the track from different makers won't mate up, al least not without a kludge of some sort.
In case two, a permanent layout, think in terms of flex track, three foot sections that can be curved to any radius, or laid straight. The flex track has to be fastened down with nails or adhesives so it isn't suitable for carpet running, but it allows smoother "eased" curves and reduces the number of track joints. Joints are a weak point, causeing both derailments and loss of electrical power. Fewer is always better when it comes to joints.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
There is something like KATO Unitrack and that Bachmann E-Z track that a couple of people I know up here used and there seems to be no issues whenever I've run anything on their layouts. Myself I'd stick with flextrack ---but then that's just me.
As for trainsets--ATLAS would be the one I'd look for. Good quality---and you can still fix 'em up as you go along.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
hi Matt,
themattmanI am starting off DC and will move into DCC after awhile.
A false start; If you want to use DCC start with it. You do get sound and the possibility to run two (or more) trains independent from each other on the same piece of track. Change it later and not only it will cost you more but you have to redo your wiring as well.
themattmanI also know that not only will my focus be on a larg train yard (which there is one were i live)
Why do you want a big train yard? Because it looks cute? Or because you like to be in charge of classification? What kind of yard is it any way? A big trainyard needs a big room. A mile long yard doesn't seem so big when seen in reality, but takes 50 feet in HO. Selective compression can reduce that length to maybe 25 feet; but do you have that kind of space?
A large trainyard means also running long modern trains. In HO they require a 30" to 40" radius. Do you have the space to accomodate these radii? To feed a big trainyard you also need lots of staging for your long trains.
If you want to get started with something small, design a "small" pike that can handle your future trains. Maybe not that long in the beginning, but with broad radii and high numbered switches. Just one or two engines(DCC), a couple of cars and the show can start.
You could make a drawing of your room, as Andy Sperandeo did in 102 Realistic Track Plans and in it: e.g. a simple oval, a passingtrack and some spurs. Post your plan and you will recieve responses. Some nice, some not so nice, but a month later you'll have a solid plan to start with.
Paul
Matt, good luck with your quest. Myself, I have not seen any start sets I like, you cannot pick your own cars. What is you budget? My self, this is how I would go.
$65.00 Proto 1000 or 2000 engine. I have had great luck with Proto.
$100.00 RTR cars are apx $13.00 each so this should get you around 7.6 cars around the same as a starter set.
$25.00 for track, two set of sectional 22 radius turns and 4 three long flex track. This will give you 4 foot X 8 foot oval.
$2.00 track spikes.
$2.00 rail joiners
$100.00 or less Bachmann E-Z DCC system. you should be able to find one for around $50.00 on E-Bay and you are DCC now.
$7.00 for wire.
$27.00 for Digitrax DH-163 decoder for engine.
$328.00 total, and you have the engine and cars you want and running DCC as well. If you want to go DC, power pack is around $40.00 and you would not need the decoder so you are down to around $242.00. My self, I don't like the track with the plastic road bed. Makes to much racket.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Sectional track generally refers to track like Atlas snap-track that comes in pre-formed curves and straights. You normally would add roadbed (often cork) and ballast to it, much as you would flextrack. In fact you can mix the two.
In recent years what's sometimes called "Click track" has become more popular. This is track that includes roadbed (Bachmann) or roadbed and ballast (Kato and Atlas) connected to the track. The sections click together and generally stay together well. I am using Kato Unitrack on my new layout and strongly recommend it, particularly to someone just starting out.
http://www.katousa.com/HO/unitrack.html
Using Kato Unitrack, a good Atlas engine, and a good starter DCC system from Digitrax, MRC or others will make things easier overall and provide years of reliable service.
Two members of our HO scale club started their home layouts with Bachmann EZ track or whatever it's called, the type with the built-in roadbed. Both had serious problems with it, ripped it all out and started over with flex track instead of using sectional track.
Just something to consider. I never saw either of their home layouts so I don't know what their particular complaints were with the EZ track.
As far as locos go, in my experience, Athearn, Atlas and Proto 2000 are great. The standard Bachmann;s are OK as long as they are well maintained. Let the maintenance slip and you've got a problem. Bachmann Spectrum is good and Kato is good. IHC steamers are good but their diesels are well worth avoiding.
If what you want is quick and easy and then start over later, a train set with sectional track and DC is the way to go. You can have trains running in a matter of days. If you like the hobby you can go on from there. If you want to get in to a layout, and have the time, money, interest and space, start with a track plan and go from there using flextrack and DCC. You can have something running in a few weeks to s few years depending on the track plan.
What do you mean when you say sectional track? Are you talking about track that has the gray plastic conected to it? If so that was another question that i had. It seemed some what restraining but i was not sure.
Thanks
Matt
Several things.
Don't think "train set" and "track expansion pack." The train sets generally feature low-end models, and may not give you what you want, although all of the ones you've mentioned are good, reputable brands.
Go to your LHS, a show or a train club and listen to some sound engines. Mostly, these are DCC. If you look at prices, you'll find it's generally more cost-effective to get sound engines from the start rather than adding sound to a DC engine. You may not want sound, but if you think you will go with DCC (and I think you should) then you might as well start with DCC.
Wiring your layout for DCC is much easier than for DC.
Come up with a track plan, and then get track for it. I'm not a big fan of "sectional" track. Flex track is much more versatile, and doesn't constrain your track planning the way sectional track does.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Go with either the Athearn or the Atlas set. The locos in these sets can be converted to DCC if you decide to buy a system later on.
Ok i am narrowing down what to buy for a starter set that i want to grow into a very large train yard. I am thinking Atlas, Atheran or Walthers. What you say about any of these and other than just a starter set would you say that i should go ahead and buy a track expansion set?
I am starting off DC and will move into DCC after awhile. After reading other coments about the issue i thought that i would focuse on DC and learn the basic's then move on to greater things.
I also know that not only will my focus be on a larg train yard (which there is one were i live), i will be running only Northfold Southern engins.
Well that's enought please give me feed back to help me with the petty problem.