Two Transition Era Questions

[wjstix]

The Trasition Era could be a very broad timeframe, depending on how you look at it. If we set electric engines aside, in 1936 you'd maybe find 1% diesel engines (a few passenger engines, and some switchers) and 99% diesel. In say 1964 (not counting engines on tourist railroads, or only kept on hte roster for railfan trips) you'd find the opposite, 1% steam at most (mostly on tiny railroads in remote areas) and 99% diesel.

Overall though, most railroads started to seriously buy diesels in big numbers after World War II (diesel production was limited due to wartime restrictions, so the railroads couldn't buy diesels as quickly as they'd like to have), and most had retired their last diesels by 1955-1959. A few like CN, the Missabe or N&W held on into 1960 with some mainline steam. But each year after 1955 more and more railroads were 100% dieselized.

Anyway..."transition era" is like saying "the golden age of radio" or something like that, it isn't really pinned down to exact dates. But in general I think when we use that term we're talking about what are sometimes called the "postwar years", 1945-1960.

 

[IVRW]

Transition era is about 1945 to 1969 at the extreme ends. Transition on any RR starts the moment it gets its first diesel. During the era, there were MANY different types of colors used for boxcars, so yes, yellow and orange would do nicely, but dont make any color dominant.

[dstarr]

The Boston & Maine took delivery on the first "Blue bird" PS-1 box cars in 1956.  

[Butlerhawk]

Thank you to all who responded to my questions - much more than I expected, but I learned a great deal from the replies. Thanks again.

[West Coast S]

Lets see:

 

Katy: chromite yellow boxcars, I believe most if not all were repainted to boxcar red by the mid fifties

Union Pacific: Armour yellow stockcars & boxcars.

Central of Georgia recieved several boxcars during this period in a silver/black short lived scheme

Minnapolis and St. Louis: Kelly green and fire engine red boxcars

Swift packing employed both the eye catching red and solid silver scheme during this time frame

Private fleet owner Chatau Martin who leased cars from GTX favored a intense purple and bold graphics. You had to have seen this one person, Kodachrome simply doesn't do it justice!

Dave

[mobilman44]

Hi!

I am 65, a model railroader since the mid-'50s, and have always modeled the transition era (even when it was actually the "modern" era!).  As previous posters wrote, I consider the era to be from the mid-late '40s until about 1959.  Of course some railroads, like the Illinois Central, did not totally dieselize until about 1960.  And, some railroads were totally diesel much earlier. 

I grew up in Chicago and spent a lot of time near (and on) railroad property.  Through the '50s, the vast majority of railroad cars were "boxcar red" or black (reefers tended to have more color).  In the mid-50s, there was a wave of colorful cars - mostly boxcars (PS 1s I believe) that hit the rails.  This was about the same time that the auto industry "modernized" their production with the '55 Chev/Ford/Pontiac, etc.

If you check out a Lionel catalog or pricing guide, you will find a section for the 6464-xxx boxcars that they put out.  These were very colorful, started in the early '50s, and pretty much replicated the prototypes.  There were several different ones, about 20 plus.

All that being said, the mix varied a lot by railroad and commodity pulled.  

ENJOY !!!!

Mobilman44

Oh, another joy of the transition era was the beloved caboose! 

[BRAKIE]

MILW-RODR

I've seen a lot of model REA box cars in green, were they all that way? I would like to include the green REA box cars and the blue Golden West Service box cars to add color, although the latter is probably out of my era around 1950.

 

 

The REA cars was found on head end of passenger trains or found in mail trains and not in regular freight trains.Yes REA owned cars was green.

Sorry,but,SP didn't start Golden West Service till the late 80s.

[BerkshireSteam]

I've seen a lot of model REA box cars in green, were they all that way? I would like to include the green REA box cars and the blue Golden West Service box cars to add color, although the latter is probably out of my era around 1950.

[Paul3]

Oh, and I should have mentioned that each road varied for "transition" depending on the condidtion of their steam fleet and their finances.

The NH was an early diesel road because their steam fleet was, for the most part a WWI-era roster, was all worn out by the 1940's (and especially after WWII).  The NH's first diesel engine arrived in 1931 (a High Hood-type Alco).  Their 2nd diesel arrived in 1936 when 10 GE switchers were ordered.  By the time WWII started, the NH had some 58 diesels on the property or on order (10 of which were road freight/passenger DL109's).  By the end of WWII, they had another 100 or so on the property (60 of them being DL109's).  By March 16th, 1948, the NH was 90% dieselized, and by March 11, 1952 the last revenue run of Steam on the NH was concluded.  The last NH steam switcher dropped it's fire for the final time in May of 1953.  The last NH steam engine (a 2-8-2 used in snow melting service) was last steamed up on July 16, 1958 after the filming of "It Happened to Jane", a Doris Day and Jack Lemmon train-based film.

So the true "transistion era" where one would find diesels and steam working side by side for the NH dates from 1931 to 1953.  For road power only, that would be from 1941 to 1952.  Meanwhile, N&W was still building new steam engines in the 1950's, and techically speaking the UP has never completely dieselized.  So it all depends...

Paul A. Cutler III
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Weather Or No Go New Haven
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[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

Paul3

Sheldon,
Both the BAR and the New Haven had State of Maine cars as both were ordered at the same time.  The NH saved a few bucks per car by using the same paint scheme.  These were insulated and heated cars (with charcoal heaters) to keep potatoes from freezing during shipment.  The NH cars were made after the BAR order, and there's a pic of a NH State of Maine car dated July, 1953.

The NH's more colorful era of orange and black boxcars started in 1955 with Pres. Patrick B. McGinnis arrival and his appointment of designer Herbert Matter.  For a cool video of the process, check out:  http://www.herbertmatter.net/clips.html  Before McGinnis, NH cars were boxcar red, black, or gray. Cabooses were "Caboose Red" (see: Floquil).

Paul A. Cutler III
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Weather Or No Go New Haven
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Paul, thanks for the additional info, I knew the New Haven also had those cars but had no data on them handy. My list is by no means complete but was simply intended to give some examples. I listed examples on which I some sort of reliable date info.

Sheldon

[Paul3]

Sheldon,
Both the BAR and the New Haven had State of Maine cars as both were ordered at the same time.  The NH saved a few bucks per car by using the same paint scheme.  These were insulated and heated cars (with charcoal heaters) to keep potatoes from freezing during shipment.  The NH cars were made after the BAR order, and there's a pic of a NH State of Maine car dated July, 1953.

The NH's more colorful era of orange and black boxcars started in 1955 with Pres. Patrick B. McGinnis arrival and his appointment of designer Herbert Matter.  For a cool video of the process, check out:  http://www.herbertmatter.net/clips.html  Before McGinnis, NH cars were boxcar red, black, or gray. Cabooses were "Caboose Red" (see: Floquil).

Paul A. Cutler III
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Weather Or No Go New Haven
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[tgindy]

When did your favorite "road" become full-diesel from steam?

Example:  Pennsy's actual transition year was 1958 -- meaning 1957 was the last year the PRR ran steam.

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

The colorful boxcar thing started in the very late forties and was in full swing by the early 50's. Lots of roads had new bright colored/multi color schemes, but they did not represent large quanitities of rolling stock in the "big picture".

Many such schemes advertised new "less than carload" or "merchandise" services being promoted by the railroads.  

Examples:

B&O Sentinel Service - blue/silver w/ yellow/green "signal" - aprox date: 1945

B&O Timesaver Service - blue/orange - aprox date: 1951

Missouri Pacific Eagle merchandise service - blue/gray/yellow - aprox date: 1951

Southern Pacific "Overnite" - black w/yellow & red herald - aprox date: 1954

Bangor & Aroostook "State of Maine" - red/white/blue -aprox date: 1954

NYC Pacemaker - red and grey - aprox date: 1953?

 

By the 60's many roads had made their standard schemes "brighter" but simpler, geting away from complex multi color schemes in favor of sold but bright or bold colors rather than "box car red" or oxide red.

Example: B&O sold blue with yellow lettering.

Sheldon

 

[mreagant]

You can probably ID a few colored box cars for almost all class 1 roads before 1960.  Intrestingly, model makers such as Athearn usually offered some of these for sale. At the same time, some models of colored cars, especially from sets, were less-that-faithful in getting the color right.  I've got a couple that do not pass the prototype test including a bright blue DH 40 footer that is hard to miss.

[7j43k]

The "colorful boxcar" phase seemed to arrive just after the transition era. There were exceptions though. GN went with a bright red in about 1956 and they did their orange sided boxcars about 1947.

I just went through my copy of "Northern Pacific in Color, Vol. 1 1949-1959" by Doug Nighswonger. That kinda covers the "transition era". From the pictures, I would say that 95% (or more) of boxcars were "boxcar" red. Reefers tended to yellow or orange. Hoppers tended (a lot, though GN stayed with boxcar red, for example) to black (see coal). Gons were maybe split between boxcar red and black. Same for flatcars. Most tankcars were probably black, but there were indeed some colorful ones.

I would say these proportions would be pretty typical throughout the US, except if you happen to be modeling a railroad that chose an unusual color. Then, since there would be so many home road cars, there's be a color shift.

Ed

[selector]

Reefers, a sort-of-boxcar, were often privately owned and colourful.The Great Northern had colourful boxcars.  The Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo Railway had yellow boxcars, but jet black covered hoppers.

Cabeese were of many colours.

The first diesels appeared in the early thirties, but it would be a reach to say that it was the start of the trainsition...er...transition era.

-Crandell

[tomikawaTT]

To add to what Dave said, there were some rather colorful box cars running in the transition era.  NYC's Pacemaker cars, with the big tapered roller (they had roller bearings) on a two-tone car side, come to mind.  Also, while still box car red, the Santa Fe had some with the system map spread all over the side.

The Pacemakers were originally in captive service (high speed LCL in named freight trains) but others were more widely dispersed.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - where box cars were color coded to indicate maximum speed)

[dehusman]

Roughly 1945-1960.  Freight diesels became generally accepted during WW2 and by 1956 the vast majority of mainline steam operations were dead.  People will argue the dates back forth a couple years either way, but that's the general range (and all the 'transition era" is is a general range).

Were there yellow or orange boxcars?  Sure.  Were they common? No.

 

[Butlerhawk]

FIrst - what years cover the transition era and secondly, were box cars painted (orange, yellow, etc. as opposed to the traditional reds) during the era? Thanks for the help.