Do Any Of You Model Z Scale?

[Anonymous]

Hello, Yes I model in Z-Scale.
I build modules in our own Norwegian ZMOD standard. www.zmod.no
And I think that Z-Scale is an upcoming scale that’s gone take off in the future. It's much easier to build convincing BIG layouts in a smaller space.



More images -> http://194.143.113.189/tjm/modelltog/Z-Scala/2004-06-06/index.htm



My homepage is http://194.143.113.189/tjm/ with lots of more photos.
(PS: It's in Norwegian but I'm planning on translating it in to English)

Regard.
Torsja - NORWAY

[ddechamp71]

Thank you Big Boy, and congratulations for your open mind! And if one of these days you get Z scale addict, remember, you are the welcome on Yahoo-groups Z scale!
Cheers,
Dominique

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Heine Pedersen

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005
[One small thought here, and please don't take this the wrong way, but maybe part of the image and perception problem with Z is that people keep putting it in siutcases and briefcases. That certainly strikes ME as novel.

Well, I am one of those guilty of doing that... Beside the briefcase, I also have a coffe table and a cake tin....


http://www.heinepedersen.com/miniclub


http://www.heinepedersen.com/christmas

But this is only for fun. [:D] My "real" z-layout is under costruction in this shelf:



80-90 meters of track, 60 turnouts and room for long trains.






http://www.heinepedersen.com/hyllebane

Wow, now that's diversity! Both novel and serious, I like it.

Really gang, thanks, this has been a real eye opening topic for me. And given the number of years I've been in this hobby, that doesn't happen too often anymore.

Part of my problem is that about 20 years ago I made the decision to pick one size of model train and stick to it. Having been true to my promise to myself, I have misssed a lot of things going on in other scales in the hobby. I still enjoy seeing and hearing about all sizes of trains.

The truth is that I am an advocate for trains of all sizes, from Z up to FULL SIZE, even though my scale of choice happens to be 3 rail O. That's why my signature says, "If it has flanged wheels, I like it!!!!"

Perhaps the most ironic thing about this topic is who started it. You see, I am most familiar with Joe because of his love of "toy trains" like I run. It is well known around here that I will "cross the tracks" and come over to the scale side here at MR because of my interest in the modeling and operation aspects of the hobby. To see Joe do it, well that was a surprise, and a pleasant one at that.

Way to go Joe!!![swg]

[ddechamp71]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Joe Polska

Does MT make a B unit for their F-7's? I only see A units on eBay and elsewhere.

Dummy B-units only.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005
[One small thought here, and please don't take this the wrong way, but maybe part of the image and perception problem with Z is that people keep putting it in siutcases and briefcases. That certainly strikes ME as novel.

Well, I am one of those guilty of doing that... Beside the briefcase, I also have a coffe table and a cake tin....


http://www.heinepedersen.com/miniclub


http://www.heinepedersen.com/christmas

But this is only for fun. [:D] My "real" z-layout is under costruction in this shelf:



80-90 meters of track, 60 turnouts and room for long trains.






http://www.heinepedersen.com/hyllebane

[FJ and G]

Briefcase Z layouts don't interest me. What would really be incredible is to have a 40X35 foot basement filled with a Z layout. Imagine the track, length of trains and scenery you could place in there.

Realistically, however, N isn't all that much bigger and besides is a whole lot cheaper. Still makes more sense to go with N unless you can afford Z.

dav

[Anonymous]

Joe,

Here are the Micro-Trains A units:
http://www.micro-trains.com/locomotives%20z%20scale.htm

and here are the B units:
http://www.micro-trains.com/b%20unit.htm

John

[Anonymous]

Does MT make a B unit for their F-7's? I only see A units on eBay and elsewhere.

[ddechamp71]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Joe Polska

I'm interested in the reliability and quality of Z locomotives. What's the difference between Marklin and Micro Trains, the pros and cons?

No idea about Marklin. But about Micro-Trains F7 (for the time, only available F7s, but we should soon have other stuff):
-one of the cheapest Z loco (about $100)
-shell detailing a little bit light: only one mold for shell + handrails + horn
-low speed operation VERY VERY reliable (about 5 scale MPH, even on turnouts)
-pulls like a mule (more than 50 freightcars on straight track).
Dominique

[ddechamp71]

QUOTE: I don't recall seeing too many articles about Z in MR.

Check latest february's issue.

QUOTE: I guess it has been a while since I looked, sorry. 13 years ago I worked in a hobby store, back then we didn't bother to carry any Z, few American prototypes, few manufacturers, and expensive. Simply no demand.

You're right, it was true 13 YEARS AGO. But not anymore.

QUOTE:
One small thought here, and please don't take this the wrong way, but maybe part of the image and perception problem with Z is that people keep putting it in siutcases and briefcases. That certainly strikes ME as novel.

That was MR's idea until not a long time ago. But stay tuned, things could change. Myself I'm working on a Z-scale walkaround style layout, that will fit in a 6.5 x 4 meter room. My purpose, operating LOONNGG trains (ie 80 cars) on a layout showing chosen parts of the Tehachapi Pass. Impossible with all other scales, even N. For this reason I've been collecting for 7 years F-units, GP38-2s, Dash9s, SD45s, SD40s, an F45, + an E8, a PA1 and a GS4 steamer for my corporate / railfan passenger train, + 400 freightcars, 50 turnouts, 70 meter of Micro-Trains flextrack, and I'm currently working on the first section of my layout.
Cheers,
Dominique

[Anonymous]

I'm interested in the reliability and quality of Z locomotives. What's the difference between Marklin and Micro Trains, the pros and cons?

[ddechamp71]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I still think that even after all of these years Z scale is more of a novelty than a scale for serious modelers. N is large enough to have enough detail to be useful.

Mmmhhh......The famous complex of superiority coming for "serious" modellers........
Dominique, "unserious" modeller

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Gee, all it takes is one snide remark on my part, and a dozen Z scalers come out of the woodwork. It's nice to see you are all awake, even if you don't say much. Welcome to the forum gang, in the future don't be so shy. You might want to make some more noise, because I don't recall seeing too many articles about Z in MR.[swg]

I guess it has been a while since I looked, sorry. 13 years ago I worked in a hobby store, back then we didn't bother to carry any Z, few American prototypes, few manufacturers, and expensive. Simply no demand. So, can you fit DCC recievers in it yet?

One small thought here, and please don't take this the wrong way, but maybe part of the image and perception problem with Z is that people keep putting it in siutcases and briefcases. That certainly strikes ME as novel.

Big_Boy and other intereZted partieZ,

I'm probably as much of a multi-scaler as anyone in or out of Z. I started in O-27 when I was given my uncle's WW-II era Lionel equipment, but over time, we moved to smaller houses, so my Dad and I built an HO layout, and by the time I got to college to earn an engineering degree (and what real engineer wasn't a model railroad engineer, first? [;)]) there was no room/time for little (or not-so-big, compared to the prototypes, for G! [:)]) trains. Moving over a dozen times all over the world during a Navy career resulted in starting again in N gauge, but this time via modules, so I could always "take it with me" without destroying it. Now that I'm living in a tiny home on a very expensive postage stamp-sized lot in SillyCon Valley (a Z gauge shotgun house? [:)]) where there are virtually no basementZ, siZe REALLY matters, and since my family and Navy friendZ live all over the country, I need to travel a lot. Not only is it a hoot to be able to run trainZ on an airline tray table (talk about getting the undivided attending-to from the flight attendantZ and other admirerZ - they think the little trainZ are so _cute_! [;)]) but I also have miniModuleZ that fit into a roll-aboard bag and connect together to form a 2' x 8' layout, so I can take it with me - anywhere. If I go with minimal clothing (Summer's almost here! [8D]), I could put more than four times that amount in two checked bags.

Clean track is A Good Thing, no matter what scale you're modeling, but like you said, duZt bunnieZ can be boulderZ in our scale, and keeping corrosion at bay is a never-ending battle for Truth, Justice and the American (and all other nationalitieZ [alien]) Way. As Glen pointed out, a miniscule dab of Wahl clipper oil every few feet works miracles in loosening up the gunk, and a wipe-down with a pad wetted with 90% isopropyl alcohol (with no rubbing-alcohol additives) cleans it all away.

Up until recently, DCC decoders in locos required major surgery, but most new models coming out this year are DCC ready, and decoders are made specifically for Z scale by Lenz, Digitrax (see Loy's Toys http://www.loystoys.com/decoders) and Döhler & Haas in Germany. There's no commercial on-loco/tender sound products like SoundTrax specifically for Z (yet [;)]) but with enough trimming, rewiring and imagination, it is theoretically feasible to install the N scale version in the largest box cars (albeit diagonally along the longitudinal axis). However, for a small layout, who can hear whether a sound is coming from a tiny loco, or a speaker under the layout? Plus, you can simulate earthquakes with a very modest-sized speaker and amp!

Supply and demand is always a chicken-and-egg thing in the early stages of any product. If it were the early 1950s and the Internet were somehow able to be based on vacuum tubes, forum folks here would be poo-pooing the ridiculous idea of a Half-O scale (BTW, HO had been around in the UK since the 1930s, but didn't overtake O scale in popularity in the U.S. until the 1960s)!!! "Who will be able to count the 'rivets' on a piece of plastic (UGH!) without looking from closer than six feet away??? By gum, in my day, we built our models with real rivets, heated in a furnace to thousands of degrees, and hammered them into cold-rolled iron!!! Who's brilliant idea was it to get rid of the middle rail, and what's up with non-metallic ties closer together than every six inches, that actually look realistic??? Bah, humbug!!! HO is nothing but a novelty that will never take off! Not on my layout!!!!! [;)]"

Despite relatively minimal coverage of Z in model railroading magazines like MR, their demographics are rapidly approaching geezerhood (or is it codgerhood - I'm too old to remember anymore! [:p]) and someday, the younger generationZ, who tend to model in smaller scaleZ simply due to space constraints, will move into the driverZ Zeat (and the revolution will be televiZed! [;)]. In fact, MR has committed to publishing at least four articles on Z in 2004, the first of which was featured in the centerfold of the March issue, due in no small part to vociferous input by folkZ like uZ in the Yahoo Z_Scale group, not to mention the hard work on the fantaZtic four-seaZon/scene layout by our very own Lyn St. Laurent.

Regarding building layoutZ in luggage, I guess a case (pun fully intended) can be made that larger scales are just a novelty because you can only fit the layouts into their own buildings - why not just go ahead and restore prototypes??? [:D]

We now return you to your life, already in progreZZ! [zzz]

All Z BeZt,
Jim

[Anonymous]

Hi All, I admit I joined just today to reply just to this topic. I started with N gauge and HO and in 1978 fell in love with the miniature world of Z. Z is so much more than a novelty today as has already been stated. To Mr. Big Boy, did you know someone has actually made a scratchbuilt Z gauge Big Boy, pic in the latest issue of Z Track magazine. I loved Z as much 15 years ago as today, that I scratch built a J3 shrouded Hudson and custom decaled 4 passenger cars to match for the 1938 NYC 20th Century Limited, my favorite. I'd be happy to send pics to anyone on request of the detail that can be obtained in Z. The J3 is a rare site in any scale. I'm proud to be able to say I made the first in Z that rivals any larger scale, like I said, I'll be happy to send pics to anyone upon request to prove my point, anything is now possible in Z as any other scale. I'm currently working on making a castable J3 and smoothsided passenger cars to match.
I've seen so many incredible acomplishments in Z lately that is not at all novel. Not by just me but the Z comunity at large. I recently (in the past 6 months) was chalenged to light a AZL SD40-2 with working head/tail lights, and Ditch lights!!! Z scale now has it's first modern Loco with working ditchlights, photos also available upon request, or via a visit to the Yahoo Z_Scale group photo section.
Z gauge is definitly an emerging scale to rival the bigger ones, and I'm glad to be apart of it. As for cost as some have mentioned, I'm not rich, but with the same skills as other scalers posses and maybe a jewelers loupe, It is possible to model any railroad your heart desires in the fraction of the space as the "Big Boys", at a affordable cost.
Sincerly, Michael Hilliard, Wilton, CT USA

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Heine Pedersen

You can take a look at my briefcase layout here:

http://www.heinepedersen.com/briefcase

That's an awsome layout, nothing like being able to take your train set on an airplace with you.

That would sure kills some time during those trans-atlantic flights. [:D][8D]

[Anonymous]

No question about it, the people in the Yahoo Z group are super![:)]

[Anonymous]

Just had to add my $1.50 worth (I'm a consultant, so I get paid more ;-) )
I've owned Z since "the early days" of about 1976 and then, yes, it was a novelty. In the last 5 years or so there has been tremendous growth in all aspects of Z. Rolling stock. Brass & cardstock buildings. Accessories. Steam. Diesel, Electric. All eras. Varying road #'s. Truer profile rails. DCC....it's jst been mind boggling to watch it happen. Each month finds new surprises, new vendors. The excitement is incredible to be a part of! And of the many hobbies I participate in, both online and off, I have found the Z-scale community to be THE friendliest and THE most helpful across the board, across the country, and around the world.

So, Joe (and Big Boy), take advantage of the free Z-Track magazine (and subscribe!), view all the wonderful layouts, big and small, that are online to see, chat in the forums, and decide if its for you. Z has its own challenges, but at least variety, reliability, and availabilty aren't among them anymore!

John Duino

[Anonymous]

Again another N gauge convert----no more room at either the apartment or the club so I sitched Christmas to zee & adapted an HO layout from a Model Railroad article that allows me to run dash 9's in 72 inches by 30 inches pulling coal drags as well as my Kato's. Gotta save up (brass dash 9's) to do the DCC trick.....I'm excited about zee as much as I was earlier about the interest in N scale----the web keeps us zee folks talking all the time
Fred Griffin

[Anonymous]

Big Boy makes a good point about the lack of Z scale articles in MR. Other than an occasional bone they throw out, there's simply not much coverage.[:(]

[Anonymous]

Yup, Big_Boy, glue or solder to printed circuit board ties, available ready made. And there are at least 4 sources of track, both sectional and fixed, used for both Z and Nn3 scales. At least 3 sources of turnouts, although the word is that Micro-Trains now has them in the works too. And http://www.handlaidtrack.com has lay-your-own-turnout templates for all scales including Z. An avid Z scaler has recently shown how to scratch-build turnouts starting with MT flex track.

Maybe we should hang out on this list more and represent Z scale a little better. Otherwise when folks ask about Z there are not many around to answer with the progress Z has made, and then older impressions stay retained.

As for eyesight, many of us (myself too) use a magnifying glass to do the fine work, but not when actually running the trains.[:)]

Like any scale, track does need to be reasonably clean. We manage nicely. Especially with multiple wheel pickup now. There are Z scale track cleaning cars available, rubbing alcohol, and the venerable trick of a VERY light dab of Wahl Oil works wonders.

Anyway, if you like what you see come join a Z list and ask more questions. Many of us got into Z this way from starting out in larger scales and continue to model in multiple scales. Multiplies the fun!

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gchenier

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005


I guess it has been a while since I looked, sorry. 13 years ago I worked in a hobby store, back then we didn't bother to carry any Z, few American prototypes, few manufacturers, and expensive. Simply no demand. So, can you fit DCC recievers in it yet?

One small thought here, and please don't take this the wrong way, but maybe part of the image and perception problem with Z is that people keep putting it in siutcases and briefcases. That certainly strikes ME as novel.

Hi Big_Boy,

Understandable. A lot of progress can happen in 13 years and even as recently as 2 years. Many folks now model in more than 1 scale, i'm into both Z and N. Different layouts, although there are many who use multiple scales on the same layout as amusement park scenes or forced perspective.

Yes, Z-DCC is now very do-able and a number of enthusiasts are doing it. For just a few of many fine examples have a visit to

http://hometown.aol.de/redrockrail/English/Digital.htm

http://www.texasandbeyond.org

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Z_Scale_DCC

As for briefcases, Z gets put in them simply because it CAN be put in them. But it is not limited to briefcases. At one time it may have been considered a novelty or novel, and at one time my first impression was almost the same simply because i had never seen it before. But remember that Zedbug i warned you about? [:D]

I remember back when Z first came out. I was in an N scale club, and one of the guys was tinkering with it so that he could do Nn3. That was also when I first saw hand laid track that small. He was doing a small section of dual gauge on the club layout. That was about 24 years ago.[:)]

DCC has come a long way too, I remember when you had to cut up the boards just to get them into certain HO engines. Now they come ready to run with DCC.

I'm afraid I'm immune to the "Zedbug". I have way too many 3 rail O gauge trains to even think about switching. Beside, I would probably go broke trying to fill 2000 square feet with Z, but it is an interesting thought.[:0][:p][;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Joe Polska

Thanks for all of the responses and pictures. Very nice! Does anyone sell ready made layouts? I seem to recall seeing one from Marklin on ebay.
[:)]

Hi Joe,

Marklin and Noch are 2 sources that i know of, the Noch are pre-formed kits

www.marklin.com

www.noch.com , but this site seems to be having some problems at the moment. It is not written in English, so you may want to do a google search and choose 'translate'

[Big_Boy_4005]

So when you hand lay track in Z, you glue the rails right? Spike heads are too big, and ties are to small. I did look at the photos, and I must say that I like the Milwaukee stuff. Is that all Micro Trains?

So let me get this straight. 4 people make their second post when we talk Z, and 4 make their first post, 2 of whom joined today just to get in on the discussion. Not bad for a days work here in the train world. [swg]

By the way, my eyesight is pretty good for 43, and the closer I get the better I see.[;)]

Keep in mind that because Z scale trains are as small as they are there is not as much surface area of the wheel coming in contact with the rail. This means that a fleck of dust or dirt is much larger proportionally, and can have a much bigger effect than it would with a larger train. Sorry, but that is a fact of life that can't be changed. However it is possible to deal with it and cope, as all of our Z scale friends will attest.[swg]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005


I guess it has been a while since I looked, sorry. 13 years ago I worked in a hobby store, back then we didn't bother to carry any Z, few American prototypes, few manufacturers, and expensive. Simply no demand. So, can you fit DCC recievers in it yet?

One small thought here, and please don't take this the wrong way, but maybe part of the image and perception problem with Z is that people keep putting it in siutcases and briefcases. That certainly strikes ME as novel.

Hi Big_Boy,

Understandable. A lot of progress can happen in 13 years and even as recently as 2 years. Many folks now model in more than 1 scale, i'm into both Z and N. Different layouts, although there are many who use multiple scales on the same layout as amusement park scenes or forced perspective.

Yes, Z-DCC is now very do-able and a number of enthusiasts are doing it. For just a few of many fine examples have a visit to

http://hometown.aol.de/redrockrail/English/Digital.htm

http://www.texasandbeyond.org

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Z_Scale_DCC

As for briefcases, Z gets put in them simply because it CAN be put in them. But it is not limited to briefcases. At one time it may have been considered a novelty or novel, and at one time my first impression was almost the same simply because i had never seen it before. But remember that Zedbug i warned you about? [:D]

[pray59]

Yes, Z is out in force. I am a long time N Scaler that was bitten last year after winning some NMRA AP points for a scratch built NP caboose...just to see if I could do it.

I started by purchasing an NP Mikado, and a few cars, which runs almost as good as my Kato N Scale Mikes, and the next thing I know, I'm subscribed to Z Track, Hand Laying code 40 Z Scale turnouts, running flywheel equipt SD-45's that run as good Kato's do, and am totally committed to Z Scale now.

It's just like the 1988 turning point in N Scale when Kato started cranking out GP38-2's and a gut could actually enjoy running N Scale... Well now those days are here for Z Scale. It's time to hop on board and give Z another looksee! [:D]

-Robert

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all of the responses and pictures. Very nice! Does anyone sell ready made layouts? I seem to recall seeing one from Marklin on ebay.

[:)]

[z220]

Rock,

1) Engines are reliable and do run well - look it up in Guniess book of records: longest running model train was in Z scale (something like 30 days without stopping)
2) Track issues - same as any other scale - just smaller! (grin) Uses same track as Nn3 (or I should say that Nn3 uses Z scale track)
3) Extremely Expensive - more expensive? Yes. But all scales have their $1000 brass locos. Cheapest locos in Z go for under $100.
4) Not many dealers - this is an issue, but there is at least one dealer in just about every major city - and plenty of help on the web (better than most scales)
5) Coupler problems? None.
6) *SOME* Marklin items are now made in China. So is everything else - including all other scales.

Any reason to avoid Z? No. Details are FANTASTIC (Need a jewelers loop to see them all) and you can build so very much more layout in the same space.

So what are the drawbacks? Well, none of the ones that existed 5 to 10 years ago. Z has the same issues that all other "non mainline" scales have (IE everything except N and HO) but Z has grown quite a bit in the past few years.

Thousands model in Z now, and it is one of the few scales that is actually GROWING in popularity (younger guys seem to like Z) so it really is the scale of the future - and the present!

Best,
-Rob

[Anonymous]

In addition to Z scale, I also have experience in O gauge and N scale. As The Rock stated above, Z scale is just as legitimate as the others. You can't believe the empire you can build in a limited space. I haven't been active in Z the past couple of years. Having renewed my interest recently, I was amazed to see how much it has grown in the past two years. It's highly unlikely that the other scales have seen such growth in the same period.

Bigboy, take a look at the links that have been posted. You might be suprised. And come join us at the Z scale Yahoo forum and get involved.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Gee, all it takes is one snide remark on my part, and a dozen Z scalers come out of the woodwork. It's nice to see you are all awake, even if you don't say much. Welcome to the forum gang, in the future don't be so shy. You might want to make some more noise, because I don't recall seeing too many articles about Z in MR.[swg]

I guess it has been a while since I looked, sorry. 13 years ago I worked in a hobby store, back then we didn't bother to carry any Z, few American prototypes, few manufacturers, and expensive. Simply no demand. So, can you fit DCC recievers in it yet?

One small thought here, and please don't take this the wrong way, but maybe part of the image and perception problem with Z is that people keep putting it in siutcases and briefcases. That certainly strikes ME as novel.