Martian Rail Link

[philnrunt]

Alright, this idea has been bouncing around in my head for , maybe, 25 years, half serious and half fun,and Alien, Aliens OutLand didnt help kill the idea at all,and and this forum seems to be the place to finally let it out!
Has anyone ever thought how neat a Martian RR would be? You could have a central spaceport, all clean and white and shiny, then have rails radiating out, to mining camps made with container boxes and cobbled together as best they can, you would need an atmosphere generator, just think of the tank cars going to it, and a farming colony, etc etc!
As for scenery, red sand , red rocks, red sky, Red Green...no, no he wouldnt be there...but just think-NO TREES and a good reason for it!
You could even have Martian Separatists ( the early colonizers) that want Martian independence, so you would need a military persence, all camo'd in oxide red and brown! The new FP59 looks like it could be at home there,beefy yet sleek, you would have to do some detailing work to make it appear airtight ,add a couple of torpedo tanks to the roof, etc, and the same for the coaches taking workers out and back.
I see a couple of FP's with 2-3 coaches, an on- train oxygen car, and then ore jennies, tank cars, reefers, gons for recovering metals, flats with bizarre vehicles on them...it would be like 19th century railroading with 21st- or 22nd if your imagination is good enough- century equipment.
Paint jobs and road names are unlimited.
Well, now that I've gotten that out of my system, go ahead and tell me how nutz I am. That might just keep me from trying it!

[lupo]

Phil,
wasn't part of the movie Total Recall featuring the governator situated on mars?
I remember a scene with a wideangle shot of the planet panning down and zooming in to the window froma a railroadcar where Arnold was sitting, travelling though the martian landscape, so some movie scenery shop build at least a part of a martian railroad system.
Would be a nice concept, very freelanced, You design your own rolling stock, so no rivetcounter can slap your but because what you build is not prototypical, because there is no prototype!
what about introducing steam to the martian landscape: imagine how a streamlined stainless steel steamers adopted to survive in the hars martian atmosphere would look like !

[fec153]

Good idea. And Marvin is in charge. Of course Bugs and Daffy are giving him a headache.
Phil.

[Anonymous]

LOL great idea

[Big_Boy_4005]

The movie with the most extraterrestrial railroad is Ghosts Of Mars. Most of the story revolves around a train.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

The movie with the most extraterrestrial railroad is Ghosts Of Mars. Most of the story revolves around a train.

yea a cheesy movie, but the train idea is sound. that would probably be what a train would be on mars instead of the tubes people thought up years ago, as the tubes would be very expensive compared to an open rail.

Jay

[FThunder11]

Thats would be awsome, and in a way would really make the scenery easier.

[Anonymous]

I guess your railroad would face competition from the guys from that movie space truckers.

-Now THAT was a bad movie.

[randybc2003]

In an April issue a few years back MR ran an article on a layout built for the moon. It was an April Fool joke, but it got kind'a serious, and produced some nice photos. Personaly, I nick-named it the "Tyco & Tranquillium". Whole thing is good for thought.
Randy

[joseph2]

I like science fiction,the idea of a Martian RR appeals to me also.I can just imagine some of the strange animals in the stock cars.

[Big_Boy_4005]

According to Hollywood, most planets are colonized for mining the local minerals. Could you imagine how large ore cars could be in lower gravity?

Oh yeah, Ghosts of Mars was a cheesy movie, even if it did have a train.[swg]

[Anonymous]

I to thought of a Martian Railroad. Though mine was post terraforming. I like the idea of Marvin the Martian at the throttle though.

James

[IRONROOSTER]

It could be neat. Have to use electric locos with a nuclear generator - oxygen would too valuable to burn. The engine and passenger cars would have to be sealed, but the ore cars, etc could be open. The towns would all be domed with airlocks. Passenger stops could have enclosed tubes come out and seal onto the passenger trains. Need an airlock system to bring the train inside. Ties would be rocks. You might be nutz, but it would still be fun to do. Post pictures.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Good point about the airlocked train stations. I have a thought about that. It would be really simple I think. Have a seal that seals off the passenger platform as the train arrives and departs. Then have two seals at the end of the "tunnel that open and close to permit the train to enter and exit and yet allow the platform to be presurised and depressurised for loading and unloading. It would be a simple system to build I think.

James

P.S. If you want a sketch, let me know, I will draw one up and email it to you if you wish.

James

[FJ and G]

"Can you imagine how large ore cars could be in lower gravity," writes Elliot----

Actually, they wold have to be very large and heavy or else the lower gravity might result in derailments; even more so on our Moon, when we eventually build railroads there.

Would be interesting to have a train construction simulator (CD), where you could map the industries on the moon and mars and build future railroads.

dave vergun

[dharmon]

And all this time I foolishly believed that MRL was Montana Rail Link

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

And all this time I foolishly believed that MRL was Montana Rail Link

That's what I thought when I read the thread originally too....

Macguy thinking --
"that's not how you spell montana" [:I] [;)]

[BNSFNUT]

Foolish Earthmen we do not use primitive railroads on Mars. We teleport every thing.[:D]
Just kidding I think trying to build a Mars railroad would be fun and nobody could say if any thing is unprototypical.

[Jetrock]

Some things to consider about such a project:

Because the lower gravity will require much more weight to keep cars firmly on the track, the gauge will probably be wider. Consider, perhaps, modeling in Nw9--running N-scale models on HO gauge track, simulating a nine-foot roadway. Such a scale would put one in line with commercially available 1:144 and other smaller-scale model spaceship kits, as well as being able to model relatively large vistas in N scale.

Of course, such a massive thing would represent a large, developed Martian railroad industry--one could also use a narrow-gauge approach to model an early Martian settlement, with a small lightweight railroad intended to assist in construction of Martian industries, transporting goods to and from a shuttle launch pad/landing site, mine, agricultural dome, laboratories, and habitat area.

That Lunar layout wasn't exactly "a few years ago"--I think it was April of 1978 or 1979!!

[philnrunt]

Wow, you guys have some fine thoughts there, making me think even more about just how different and free thinking a layout like this would be.
I've also considered an O underground mining road on Mars, making it a 3-d kind of thing with electric engines snaking their cars through dimly lit tunnels loaded with red ore, crawling up and down steep grades going from one level to another,lost and forgotten caves and maybe even some of Marvins ancestors!
This is what happens when you work midnights, lots of time to daydream, even if it is at night!

[FJ and G]

Here's the Martian train:

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Catalogs/cat-2003-c-1/pgs-14-15.htm

dav

[CNJ831]

One would have to give an awful lot of careful thought to designing such a layout, particularly to the roadbed and rolling stock, if they wi***o be faithful to reality. The temperature extremes would probably preclude the use of any metallic rails. Periodic dust storms, with their highly static-charged particles, could prove downright dangerous or even deadly. Rolling stock and (fuel cell powered?) locomotives would have to ride on totally sealed wheels/bearings and bolster mountings because of dust infiltration. Use of open dump cars for mineral transportation would probably not be practical because of the extreme dust problem as well - bulk materials would have to ride in something like special covered hoppers unloaded under pressure. In addition, O2 would be so precious that passenger stations wouldn't use airlocks capable of holding an entire train but rather would need to employ self-sealing gangways that extended from the "station" to meet car doors, rather like those used at airports today. And don't forget, even though the gravity is much less, mass doesn't change, bringing in a whole new set of problems!

CNJ831

[RedLeader]

Here's a great idea for a martian layout!!

Take Bachmann's 500 series Nazomi shikanzen and paint it all white, remember there's no ozone layer on Mars and it's magnetophere is much weaker that the on Earth, therefore, the train must have a reflective, thermic and isolating painting (white like the one used one the space shuttle, besades white gives a certain "space age" clean look). Use some NASA decals or anything that comes to mind regarding space explorations. Perhaps stamp some flags beside the nose of the locomotive (Russia, USA, France, Japan, Germany, UK, etc.). Weather the thing with rusty dust, must simulate worn away paint, due to constant dust storms, reveiling the titanium-manganese alloy that makes the structure of the train.

Since conditions on Mars would be very different from those on Earth, and the gravity thing, and everything, the most practical solution for your rolling stock would be applying the concept as in airplane cargo. Just take the passenger cars and cover the windows leaving evidence of them and a riveted cap (just like in airplanes). The cargo would be moved in special presurized containers (...just like in air cargo). This way you don't have to worry about rolling stock, everything goes in containres shaped like the inside of your cargo-car. That would not only be easier, but much more realistic. That's the way the Space Shuttle carries cargo out side our planet. Maybe you should adapt some of those projecting doors seen in cargo planes to one of the sides of each cargo car. Imagine a the containers placed over autopropelled carriers with yellow/black zebra paterns waiting for the Via Ferrum Argentum Fluvius (Silver Creek Railroad) No. 5 to arrive.

To be realistic, in a martian mining situation, trains would not be used to transport ore. But high speed pneumatic conveys. Like pipelines full of pulverized iron ore. That could give a very interesting look to those isolated red dust deserts. Trains would be used for personel and supplies.

CNJ831 idea of extending gates to the trains is a cool one. Mars is so cold that diesel would be useless and not even think about steam (Mars is a freacking planet sized desert!! water is produced in factories for survival of men and that's it) Electrified third rail is more realistic, catenary would be a problem with those horrible supersonic hurricanes and state-size tornadoes. Hidrogen power cells is another (more sci-fi)solution, the technology must be very advanced for H2 powers cells to produce enough power to haul a train, today an average car packed up with those things can bearly reach 60 kph!! and they are very expensive to produce. A broom like thingy would go infront of the contact shoe to brush away any dust built up on the third rail, so the locomotive could pick up electricity.

The must interesting of all would be your MOW equipment and all that dusty and bulky martian industry structures, with all those blinking strobes, pressurized pipes. Ah, and don't bother buying rust paint, on Mars there's no rusting, 'cause there's almost no oxygen. So iron slabs coming out of the furnace would be metalic but full of dust. You would like to use concrete ties rather than wood for obvious extraterrestrial reasons.

The idea is so wacky, I could try it myself!!! Just imagine the dust cloud behind the train while it dashes at 600kph to the Blakely Vallis Iron Mine.

Of course, this if you want a rail track sysytem, but if what you want is plausible realism the train would be a MAGLEV kind of thing.

[espeefoamer]

Be sure to paint every thing yellow,because as soon as the UP hears about it they will take it over.[:(]

[robengland]

I recall thirty years ago seeing something about a moon railway that had me thinking then what a cool model it would make.

Here's another thought for you: railway on an asteroid. I saw a layout plan on the Web but I can't find it again. Instead of a flat bench, you suspend a ball from the ceiling, then run tracks all over it in three dimensions (due to absense of gravity, asterioid railways need to cling to the track anyway, so it is "prototypical").

[Jetrock]

Another option would be to go for either a "fantasy Mars" environment, with Earth-normal but thin atmosphere, canals, gleaming Martian cities, and green six-armed Martians.

Finally, if one is developing a "later settlement" layout, a "terraformed" Mars is possible (read Kim Stanley Robinson's "Green Mars" for ideas on this.) It would still be a red planet, but with weird incredibly-spindly green trees, liquid water and no need for airlocks at the passenger stations...

[philnrunt]

Once again, you people impress me.
The way I see it, you would have alot more scenery options if you built it 25 years or so after we first arrived. Then you could have ruins, failed projects, and an atmosphere in place. All of the bizarre original project problems would have been pretty much worked out by then, and it would be more of an everyday job instead of an exploration type deal.
I really like the idea of sandblasted equipment, man vs nature has always fascinated me and Mars is definitely nature untamed..
The idea of each business-facility being totally isolated, connected by a 1 day train trip or a 4 day crawler trip is also appealing to me.Trains taking provisions to mines, terra former colonies, research stations and military bases would be a blast to model.
The stuff you didnt want to actually model could be a team track type arrangement and you could say it's one of the underground installations! Just a pneumatic download station and you could say it was anything.
FJ&G-
Not too sure about the looks, but that fancy Magne-Traction would be just the ticket for a low gravity situation!

[Anonymous]

Dont forget that one of starfleet's biggest shipyards is on mars, Utopia Planitia. Just imagine all the loads of warp nacelles, sections of hull and assorted paneling, all the drafting buildings, Outfitting buildings, ect. I can imagine all sorts of uses of railway support there.

James

[FJ and G]

Since the whole planet is basically iron, you wouldn't really need iron ore cars to carry stuff around; but what you would need would be hopper cars to carry the ice to other parts of the planet to be used as water or for mixing chemicals. Tank cars and pipelines would not be able to transport the ice, as it is not fluid enough (if heated, it would quickly refreeze).

One would need to make a geological study of the planet to see if all of the rock material is consistently the same everywhere. If not, then trains would certainly be useful for transporting the materials to a processing plant.

Of course, trains as people movers (or Martian movers if they discover anteanaed people) would be useful.

Dav
Reporting from Earth

[joseph2]

There might be water in the form of ice on Mars,so perhaps gondolas of ice or tank cars of water going back to the settlement.Flat cars of pipes for water pipelines also come to mind.Could we modify a Cat bulldozer for Mars and use it as a flatcar load? Perhaps put a trailer for a battery on the back of a bulldozer.Any of you read scifi about future railroads? Harry Harrison wrote Tunnel Under the Atlantic back in the early 1970's.Ron Goulart mentions railrads in some of his Barnum books. Joe G.