I try to hide my reverse loops by making them longer than necessary, so trains don't always meet loco-to-caboose, and having them take a circuitous route, not a simple teardrop or crossover. This hides the loop and let's the operator decide the path which doesn't obviously come back on itself, although in fact, it does.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Thanks Rich
You can call me anything you wish. One question - just what is a Bickle?
Glad you caught the taxi driver reference and no, I am not.
Here is a replacement for the repeated image in my original post.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53870309954_bbbe82bb7c_m.jpg
BillyJoeBob Newbie? You talking to me? You talking to me?* Here is a real surprise -- I haven't been a newbie in this hobby for 68 years. (August 21, 1955 - a Penn Line freight train set: I was hooked!) But, thank you, kinda makes me feel like old school meets Taylor Swift. Couple of days ago I went to the Google and entered "model railroads with two reverse loops" and landed smack on this 14 year old post. I do have some ideas for 'Create a New Discussion Topic' See, us old dogs can learn new tricks!' * Robert De Niro is a hoot!. He always takes me for a ride. Here are a couple of snaps my abuilding train set. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53864629219_e364253c52_m.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53864686355_49eddfc617_m.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53864690525_c0954cf011_m.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53864629219_e364253c52_m.jpg
Newbie? You talking to me? You talking to me?*
Here is a real surprise -- I haven't been a newbie in this hobby for 68 years. (August 21, 1955 - a Penn Line freight train set: I was hooked!) But, thank you, kinda makes me feel like old school meets Taylor Swift.
Couple of days ago I went to the Google and entered "model railroads with two reverse loops" and landed smack on this 14 year old post. I do have some ideas for 'Create a New Discussion Topic' See, us old dogs can learn new tricks!'
* Robert De Niro is a hoot!. He always takes me for a ride.
Here are a couple of snaps my abuilding train set.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53864629219_e364253c52_m.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53864686355_49eddfc617_m.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53864690525_c0954cf011_m.jpg
Nice photos and welcome to the forum!
Are you really a taxi driver?
Rich
Alton Junction
BATMAN It was obvious to me as soon as I opened it that this was an old thread, but it was like a step back in time seeing all the old names of the posters no longer here for whatever reason. I wanted a way to turn my engines and I did not want a giant turntable to do it. The CPR roundhouse in Vancouver had a small TT and a balloon track around the the RH to turn the passenger trains, so I emulated that somewhat. I can turn a Hudson on the TT but nothing larger. The 2-10-4s go around the balloon track which can also accommodate whole trains, though a larger passenger train gets turned in two or three sections.
It was obvious to me as soon as I opened it that this was an old thread, but it was like a step back in time seeing all the old names of the posters no longer here for whatever reason.
I wanted a way to turn my engines and I did not want a giant turntable to do it. The CPR roundhouse in Vancouver had a small TT and a balloon track around the the RH to turn the passenger trains, so I emulated that somewhat.
I can turn a Hudson on the TT but nothing larger. The 2-10-4s go around the balloon track which can also accommodate whole trains, though a larger passenger train gets turned in two or three sections.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Newbie to the forum? Not the hobby.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Poster only posted 13 years ago and has not posted since.
riogrande5761 Topic is 15 years old. Some members may not even be on the forums anymore, or even alive.
Topic is 15 years old. Some members may not even be on the forums anymore, or even alive.
As I have often suggested, if you cannot resist the temptation to reply to a necro thread, why not just start a new thread and provide a link to the old thread?
But, now that I took the time to read through this old thread, one reply noted that reverse loops don't look good on a layout. Maybe so, but I have four "reversing sections" on my layout, and you cannot tell by simply looking at my layout.
My layout is a large and long folded dogbone that widens to a 4-track mainline in the center. I use four double slips to permit trains to change directions and cross over to any of the other three mainline tracks.
Well, not really. Run the mainline to the reverse loop switch, which is at least a junction, run the loop back to the switch, there is another junction with a whole mainline ahead to run. So, your time table has two additional junctions
Place a small station or industrial spur and, perhaps a short siding in the loop and the loop becomes a section of mainline itself. Pad the time table to allow for some switching and problem solved.
Anyway, that's what I do.
steemtrayn[Doesn't Grand Central have loops on BOTH levels?
tomikawaTT Unfortunately, my favorite prototype reverse loop is 1:1 scale hidden track. It wraps around the lower level of New York's Grand Central Station.
Unfortunately, my favorite prototype reverse loop is 1:1 scale hidden track. It wraps around the lower level of New York's Grand Central Station.
Doesn't Grand Central have loops on BOTH levels?
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
How do I feel?
I find them useful. My mountain line is loop to loop about 150 feet long. Each end has a reverse loop with a tortoise on the TO feeding it. I use the tortoise aux contacts and some unorthodox wiring to throw both the TO and main line polarity from EITHER end with a single pole double throw momentary switch (one at each end). Hold switch until points move about half way then let go and the tortoise continues until stall. (Like a latching relay without the relay).
My next step is to wire in detection IR detectors in parallel to the manual switches. Total automation IS possible in DC but the wiring becomes a bit sophisticated. I suppose that for most people DCC and auto-reversers are the best way to go.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
Texas ZepherdoctorwayneTexas Zepher2. Only way to turn a train on the move without stopping. The method which I outlined previously doesn't require stopping the train, either.I just re-read your post and don't understand. The dual DPDT method is the age old standard way of wiring a reversing loop. Flip the polarity of the main while the train is in the loop.... But I wasn't talking about controlling. I was speaking about moving the train. I just meant that in a wye or a turntable the train has to stop then proceed. Perhaps I didn't understand your post. Is there another way to roll a train into an opposite direction?
doctorwayneTexas Zepher2. Only way to turn a train on the move without stopping. The method which I outlined previously doesn't require stopping the train, either.
Texas Zepher2. Only way to turn a train on the move without stopping.
The method which I outlined previously doesn't require stopping the train, either.
I just re-read your post and don't understand. The dual DPDT method is the age old standard way of wiring a reversing loop. Flip the polarity of the main while the train is in the loop.... But I wasn't talking about controlling. I was speaking about moving the train. I just meant that in a wye or a turntable the train has to stop then proceed. Perhaps I didn't understand your post. Is there another way to roll a train into an opposite direction?
Perhaps I shouldn't have used the photo of my wye to illustrate my original reply. Of course the train must stop when using either a wye or turntable, but the original question was about revers(al)e loops - the DPDT switch is used in all three applications, but the train can move uninterrupted through a reverse loop (unless the operator forgets to throw the turnout after the train is completely within the loop and has not yet exited, going in the opposite direction).
Wayne
My previous layout was a point to loop with the loop in hidden staging. The staging represented the end of a branch. Since it was a branch, every engine that went to the end came back the same day or the next day. A perfect situation of a reverse loop. The laoyout had a peninsula that the visible track went around, with staging and the reverse under it. So there was zero additional footprint requirement and zero effort to "hide it".I had another "reversing loop" (actually a continuous running connection) where a interchange track and an upper level staging track connected. When not running continuous, the left hand end of the track was staging and the right hand end was a PRR interchange. Once again, zero additional foot print. In both cases the reverse loop or connection was hidden (loop on the lower level staging, connection behind a low backdrop, about 6-8" high).
I used DCC and used both MRC and Tony's Train Exchange reversers. I did have some issues since the loops were "far" from the command station, the reversers couldn't detect the voltage drop fast enough. I was advised to run a separate bus from the command station to the reversers, but by the time I learned that I was about to disassemble the layout to rebuild it.
My current track plan has a "reverse loop" in it where a continuous running connection ties into a wye, but that portion of the trackwork isn't built yet. Once again, the continuous running connection adds to the foot print, but not the reversing section and since the tail of the wye/continuous running connection goes through the back drop its, not visually obvious as a reversing track.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Quick and dirty way to 'hide' a reverse loop in plain sight:
Build a flood-loader over the spot on the loop equidistant from the entrance-exit switch. Then lay a second, parallel track that doesn't pass under the loader and use it as the mainline. That way you won't be routing your Empire Builder under the loading bin.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
My track plan is an around the room dogbone with the reversing loops stacked in one corner of the room, which reduces the amount of space they eat up. Each loop has three tracks which act as hidden staging yards. I can get two long trains or three short ones in the loops. The only limitation is that each track of the loop must be operated on a first in-first out basis. That has been fairly easy to schedule around. I have a DCC layout and I use a single MRC auto-reverser which is wired to both loops. As long as you don't have trains entering or exiting both loops at the same time, that works fine. Since I am a lone wolf operator, there is little chance of that. For a multi-operator layout, it would probably be a good idea to have an auto-reverser for each loop.
My main classification yard and also the main passenger station are near one of the end loops. Operationally, this plan gives a great deal of flexibility. Some trains simply run over the road from one end loop to the other. Others will arrive from one loop or another and terminate at the yard or station. Other's will originate from the yard or station and exit into one of the staging loops, to return later. I can also use the upper loop tracks as a fiddle yard if I choose to do so. I have a couple seldom used cutoff tracks which bypass the loops and turn the layout into a large double track oval if I choose to run that way. The real purpose of these tracks though is to allow me to run paired coal trains in opposite directions. Eastbound loads, westbound empties.
Staging loops increase the amount of mainline running to switching which depending on your perspective can be a good or bad thing. My large classification yard plus dozens of industries gives me pleny of opportunity for switching so it is nice to have some trains that simply run through the layout.
My planned reversing loops are because my PRR corridor plan is six tracks wide and create what was called years ago a dogbone layout. This works well because the outside two tracks are basically locals. The next two are freight and the inside two are passenger so the overall layout is a loop within a loop within a loop. This way trains going into staging are held on a loop so they can return in the opposite direction. Without them it wouldn't work.
I had a folded point to point layout, and added a section that put a turntable at one end of the line and a reversing loop at the other:
The issue I have with them is that loops on layouts seem like they are not prototypic and just look weird (my opinion), because our curves are so tight and because loops of any sort are so rare in the real world. So the challenge was disguising my loop.
Most of my loop is inside of a tunnel and I think that helps to hide what it is. I generally stop the train in the tunnel and do something else for a while - making the loop/tunnel a staging track, too. When another train is heading for the loop, I put it on a siding and pull the first train out. The second one goes into the tunnel and waits while I finish operations with the first one. I can alternate trains like this for as long as I want and keep something moving on the layout all the time.
Here's a shot of my loop and turntable (I didn't end up following the drawn track plan, exactly):
For what it's worth, I found the wiring simple enough (Atlas makes a special little control box that simplifies things). Operation is easy, too; there is sort of a rhythm to the switches that control the polarity.
BTW, Crandell, It's great to see an overall picture of your layout. Nice work! I've wondered what the whole thing looks like. Thanks for posting.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
To be honest, after years of avoiding reverse loops, once I installed one I found it pretty simple to wire it up. Admittedly this was more of a "point to loop" layout so trains only went thru the loop once, plus the way the track plan worked out, most all trains either stopped at the station located within the reverse loop, or stopped in the loop to do some switching, so I didn't have to reverse trains in motion. It was a lot easier once I converted to DCC and got an automagic reversing gizmo though.
rjake4454 On my last layout we tried working with 2 reversing loops to create as much action as possible, the problem was that the loops were so big, the special modules that we hooked up couldn't cover something of that maginitude, so there were still problems, although we did get them to work eventually, but it cost many hours of frustration. How many on here have reversing loops on your layouts and I want to find out the general feeling about them on here, regarding their pros and cons.
On my last layout we tried working with 2 reversing loops to create as much action as possible, the problem was that the loops were so big, the special modules that we hooked up couldn't cover something of that maginitude, so there were still problems, although we did get them to work eventually, but it cost many hours of frustration.
How many on here have reversing loops on your layouts and I want to find out the general feeling about them on here, regarding their pros and cons.
You really don't want to know what I think about them. What is important is you want them so you can reverse train direction as trains run around the layout.
If DC, one simultaneously reverses the electrical polarity on the reverse loop and the throttle's train direction. You may or may not want to do this while the train is running. If DCC, one employs an electrical gadget (as mentioned earlier by someone else) to align polarity automatically.
Mark
Hi. Layout is in one corner of the basement, measures 9' along the close and back walls as you see it, and the length, right and left, is 13' 9". It is a folded loop design strictly for rail fanning, although the yard offers switching of a sort, and the engine servicing is obvious. Also high along the far wall, a switch back to a mine in a tunnel in the far mountain, highest up.
I use Peco Streamline Insulfrog Code 83 $6 turnouts exclusively in the yard, and one is part of the switchback to the mine. All of my engines are perfectly happy with #6's, and I would bet they would be fine with #5's. Same with my Walthers heavyweight passenger cars.
The crossover central bridge is the only construction of that nature, and that was because I had materials left over from a previous layout and wanted the bridge to be light. It is hinged at the right, where it meets the bench, and is held up by brass bolt latches at the left. Those latches also transmit power to the rails on the bridge via hidden feeders.
I only have roadbed, and it is cork, inside the tunnel to the low left, running behind the length of the yard and depot. All the rest is spline roadbed with flex laid directly on the spline tops.
The radius at the near (out of camera view) and far walls comprise the largest curves, and they are about 46". Other curves are limited by the largest curved turnouts I could find, which I hacked up in order to 'straighten' them a wee bit to eke out another 2-3" of radius. They are Walthers/Shinohara #7.5's with are tighter than advertised on the inner diverging route by about 3". I have one curved W/S #8 that seems to be closer to its advertised radii, but many items clunk through the frog....engines and cars. Unable to determine why so far. It looks clean and well made.
If you have other questions, please feel free to PM me.
-Crandell
selector My solution would not be satisfactory for most layout builders, but I like the reversing loop bridge running diagonally across the central operating pit of my layout. It is a 24" minimum radius at its tightest, generally 28", and gapped to allow a train about 7' long to use it. A Digitrax PSX-AR reverses the polarity automatically...a wonderful device. -Crandell
My solution would not be satisfactory for most layout builders, but I like the reversing loop bridge running diagonally across the central operating pit of my layout. It is a 24" minimum radius at its tightest, generally 28", and gapped to allow a train about 7' long to use it. A Digitrax PSX-AR reverses the polarity automatically...a wonderful device.
Selector, I really like your layout plan. What are the dimensions of the table and how big is the room if you don't mind me asking..
Oh and did you lay your cork road bed on plywood? I see some blue foam used on top of plywood in some places, how did you make the transition from foam to plywood? Or do the tracks and cork roadbed lay on foam as well?
I also forgot to ask, do your large non-articulated steam engines have problems with #6 switches or do you use only #8 turnouts for the T1 and J1?
And whats the largest radius on your layout?
Texas ZepherAny toy train system that uses two rails and gets its power through the track will have reversing loop issues. It is definitely not an HO issue. The new electronic auto switches especially for DCC have largely eliminated the old "run the track" issue. As for pro's and con's:Pros:1. Adds a great deal of operational flexibility - allowing more ways to simulate a mainline. loop-to-loop, out and back (point to loop).2. Only way to turn a train on the move without stopping.Cons:1. Electrical short circuits (same issue with wyes and turntables).2. Can cause routing issues when used on the end of a single track mainline.3. Increases the possibility for head on collisions.
Any toy train system that uses two rails and gets its power through the track will have reversing loop issues. It is definitely not an HO issue. The new electronic auto switches especially for DCC have largely eliminated the old "run the track" issue. As for pro's and con's:
Pros:1. Adds a great deal of operational flexibility - allowing more ways to simulate a mainline. loop-to-loop, out and back (point to loop).2. Only way to turn a train on the move without stopping.
Cons:1. Electrical short circuits (same issue with wyes and turntables).2. Can cause routing issues when used on the end of a single track mainline.3. Increases the possibility for head on collisions.
The method which I outlined previously doesn't require stopping the train, either. On my first layout, a 4'x8', there were two reverse loops.
tomikawaTT All of my needs for turning full-length trains end for end are handled by a single specially-wired section of track in the netherworld. It's used by every locomotive powered train that leaves the visible world, a necessary evil that makes my operating scheme possible. Actually, it doesn't have a separately-wired reverse switch. It DOES have auto-stop circuits, and movement through it is controlled by connecting it to the block ahead - one is the UP main, the other is a crossover to the DOWN main. The necessary contacts are on the switch machine. As for reverse switches, each of my train controllers has two. One sets timetable direction (up or down) and the other determines which way the locomotive will travel (smokebox first, or tender first.) The direction switch only has to be set once for each train movement. Switching moves are controlled by the locomotive reverse switch. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
All of my needs for turning full-length trains end for end are handled by a single specially-wired section of track in the netherworld. It's used by every locomotive powered train that leaves the visible world, a necessary evil that makes my operating scheme possible. Actually, it doesn't have a separately-wired reverse switch. It DOES have auto-stop circuits, and movement through it is controlled by connecting it to the block ahead - one is the UP main, the other is a crossover to the DOWN main. The necessary contacts are on the switch machine.
As for reverse switches, each of my train controllers has two. One sets timetable direction (up or down) and the other determines which way the locomotive will travel (smokebox first, or tender first.) The direction switch only has to be set once for each train movement. Switching moves are controlled by the locomotive reverse switch.
This is one of the classic, and best, ways to use reverse loops and by far one of the best ways to wire them. I use this same idea in all reverse loops on my layout as well. Like Chuck, all my reverse loops are "off stage" trackage to prepare for the next run, session, etc.
And this type of wiring is easy to understand and operate even in DC, and will work with DCC as well.
This idea was recommended and promoted by Paul Mallory and others back in the "dark ages" of our hobby. Ideas that still work well dispite their "age".
Sheldon
The solution on my Santa Fe was to not use any. The mainline is point to point and into staging. That is the top deck. The middle deck is a Santa Fe branch off the top deck and runs through the layout and down to a third deck where there are two more staging areas. At one time I had a staging track on the top deck set up to let me run through trains in a loop during open houses, but that finally got pulled.
Bob