The Return of the Grafffiti King --- Vandalism BECOMES ARTWORK

[Anonymous]

You're not going to believe this, but I have found pictures of YET ANOTHER GRAFFITIED BN CABOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That green must somehow be hipnotic to the taggers! I don't think that this one is in service because the website I got these pictures from says that it and an old GN passenger which is right by it are frequented by squatters and people looking for a place to drink. I couldn't find what city they are in. Well, here they are:

[lupo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Elliot,

Thanks for the information on your technique. Well done.

You mention wanting to be able to remove the graffiti. You could create a scene on your layout of a mean looking cop, overseeing some juvenile delinquents, removing the graffiti that they sprayed on the outside of the train.

dav

[}:)] Yet another railroad cop scene for your lay-out Elliot! [:D][:D][:D]
[:p] busy law enforcement going on overthere:
railroad-cops chasing railfanners, and juvenile delinquents around [^]

[FJ and G]

Elliot,

Thanks for the information on your technique. Well done.

You mention wanting to be able to remove the graffiti. You could create a scene on your layout of a mean looking cop, overseeing some juvenile delinquents, removing the graffiti that they sprayed on the outside of the train.

dav

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

Elliot,

That's some nice work you did pulling editing the photos to make decals. I agree with you that if you remove it from it's medium it can be art, just as any number of other things.....It's the choice of canvas that makes it distasteful. Alot of misdirected energy.

As far as graffiti goes though...like it or not it's a fixture on modern RRs. Decal companies are making graffiti slides that adorn some of my cars. Not as art but as a reflection of how cars look today. I think of it as a part of the weathering for some of my stock. Here's two examples from my own "fleet" and I have others that have been tagged....and I'm planning to do more.

there's a tad bit of rust... you might want to re-paint .

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Back to modeling guys. I went to CompUSA yesterday and picked up some window decal material. This is a clear peel and stick product made by Avery. This is not the same as water decals. It has advantages and disadvantages.

This is not the best method for all applications, but it is quick and easy. Since I work in O scale, I have large areas to work with. Because some of my trains are collectable, I don't want to make permenant changes that would deface the car.

This product would work well to simulate lighted signs or stained glass because it is not opaque. Any flat surface will work, but this product does not conform to detail.





I know there are a lot of people that wish all graffiti would come off that easily. [swg]

Very nice!

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjm89
I was only joking too, but SD-90/43MAC's in the older Wabash scheme would be the coolest thing to see![:D]

Here's a link that is sort of what I am thinking, only my most favorite road:

If This was a rela locomotive and some punk tagged it, I would personally hunt them down![:D][:p][}:)][;)]

This is starting to remind me of Juby4life's story, only he likes The Rock. Modern equipment in fallen flags paint. If you do it, be careful who you show it to, it could be worse than graffiti. Just ask Juby.[:0][:(][;)]

Sask, I'm beginning to wonder how many cabooses are left on BNSF roster. Very few railroad jobs call for a caboose anymore. The major roads have been trying to dump local switch work for years. MOW and locals are most of the places you would find a caboose these days. The majority went for scrap long ago.

Over 30 years ago, I saw a thing in Mad Magazine, about how you could keep thieves from stealing your new car. The Mad solution was to basicly vandalize it yourself!!!!

Could this be a company plan to make their cabooses look un-inviting???

[swg]

The French high speed trains are a real surprise. Again, I didn't think things like that sat unattended long enough to get hit. Live and learn.[;)]

[Anonymous]

Well, would you believe it, here's another picture of a graffitied BN caboose? This one came from that graffiti website that I mentioned, which is where I got the other one, but it's in a different section of the site and while no location is given, this one came from a section of US photos, while the other was taken in Vancouver, B.C.

Somebody sure must not like BN!

Here's another caboose that someone's painted. It's rather ironic that it's an Operation Lifesaver caboose advising people to stay off the tracks when someone clearly had to be tresspassing in order to do this.




In France the taggers are really ambitious, actually targeting the TGV!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjm89

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Lets call our group, Model Railroaders in the Hood.

dav

How about "Ghetto Model Railroaders". Count me in, it'll be fun! It's illegal, but fun! So I guess it'd be illegal fun. But how can fun be illegal?[:0][?]................[:p]

We'll be walkin' in the backstreet alleys of East St. Louis or South LA or maybe even Queens, New York, packing Colt 45's, wearing our hats backwards, repainting NS locomotives in Wabash or NKP paint....[:D][8D][;)][:p][}:)][:)]

Sorry, 4884BigBoy, but I'm a Country Boy now and forever!

And I can't stand wearing a hat backwards[xx(], in fact the only thing I wrote that I would support would be NS repainting it's roster in WABASH and NKP colors![:D]

Hey, I agree. I was only joking. I can't stand wearing hats backwards, either! I'm a Michigander and proud of it. No ghetto hear (atleast I thought there was none till I went to Detriot[;)]) But, repainting locos in thier old rold scheme does sound interesting. I wish modern roads would do more of that.[:(]

I was only joking too, but SD-90/43MAC's in the older Wabash scheme would be the coolest thing to see![:D]

Here's a link that is sort of what I am thinking, only my most favorite road:

If This was a rela locomotive and some punk tagged it, I would personally hunt them down![:D][:p][}:)][;)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

It almost looks like you two photographed opposite sides of the same caboose.

That's why I posted it. I was wondering the same thing. I have a feeling that there are a few painted BN cabooses. Actually, the article that was in MR a while back also featured a BN caboose. Now I'll have to go find that article and see if any of these match.[:0][swg]

The article I was thinking of was done in June 2003. It was called "Painting with decals". The thing is, the author was working in N scale. That technique would become increasingly difficult and expensive as the size of the trains got larger. This is a variation on that theme, and by changing the application slightly, it opens up a lot more possibilities.

For all of my graffiti hating friends who have managed to stick around, and "eat their vegetables", this is "dessert". I hope you find it better than "Jell-o". [swg]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Back to modeling guys. I went to CompUSA yesterday and picked up some window decal material. This is a clear peel and stick product made by Avery. This is not the same as water decals. It has advantages and disadvantages.

This is not the best method for all applications, but it is quick and easy. Since I work in O scale, I have large areas to work with. Because some of my trains are collectable, I don't want to make permenant changes that would deface the car.

This product would work well to simulate lighted signs or stained glass because it is not opaque. Any flat surface will work, but this product does not conform to detail.





I know there are a lot of people that wish all graffiti would come off that easily. [swg]

[dharmon]

It almost looks like you two photographed opposite sides of the same caboose.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks Sask, those are some amazing photos. My opinion of the tank cars is, that the graffiti is a vast improvement over the original plain black.

The GG-1, having not been resrored yet, is no big deal. That may have happened before it came under the protection of the museum, and once restored should command respect again. Beside, this engine has seen much worse than graffiti in it's lifetime.[swg]

The really amazing photo is the UP loco. How the HELL did they let that happen??? Either someone was asleep, or the employees were bored. Maybe they were angry at the prospect of an impending layoff, and decided to try "art" instead.[:P]

The old BN caboose is also interesting. I found this one a few weeks ago in the other side of town, being used in a work train that was distributing ties.



Oh, and thanks for the link. I've marked it.[swg]

[Roadtrp]

"Actually, this GG1 is owned by the B&O Museum and has been sitting where it is since 1985. It's really sad to see it like this. It also happens to be the GG1 that was involved in a big crash in Washington, D.C. Union Station in 1953."

-----------------------------------

I agree that it is really sad that some young dumb vandal defaced the GG1 that way. And I think it is even sadder (and dumber) that the B&O Museum, which should be responsible for preserving the loco, has let it sit there and deterioriate for almost 20 years.

I'm not real sure who the worse vandal is here... [V]

[Anonymous]

I myself am very much opposed to graffiti and consider it to be vandalism, no matter how artistic it is, but as others have said, it is something that has become a part of modern railroads whether we like it or not. Here are a few interesting photos I've found on the net of graffitied trains.





I must say that these cars pictured above certainly impressed me, perhaps because of the fact that they actually represent something as opposed to being just some mindless writing that noone can read. These cars would make some very interesting models.

It isn't just freight cars that these guys go after, just look at this UP unit.


This next photo makes me want to go and hunt down whoever's responsible!

Actually, this GG1 is owned by the B&O Museum and has been sitting where it is since 1985. It's really sad to see it like this. It also happens to be the GG1 that was involved in a big crash in Washington, D.C. Union Station in 1953.


These are a couple more that I just found interesting.



If you want ideas for those decals, Elliot, try this website http://www.graffiti.org/trains/index.trains.html . It does glorify graffiti and all the morons that to do it, but it does have tons of photos. Interestingly enough, trains.com is included in their links section.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjm89

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Lets call our group, Model Railroaders in the Hood.

dav

How about "Ghetto Model Railroaders". Count me in, it'll be fun! It's illegal, but fun! So I guess it'd be illegal fun. But how can fun be illegal?[:0][?]................[:p]

We'll be walkin' in the backstreet alleys of East St. Louis or South LA or maybe even Queens, New York, packing Colt 45's, wearing our hats backwards, repainting NS locomotives in Wabash or NKP paint....[:D][8D][;)][:p][}:)][:)]

Sorry, 4884BigBoy, but I'm a Country Boy now and forever!

And I can't stand wearing a hat backwards[xx(], in fact the only thing I wrote that I would support would be NS repainting it's roster in WABASH and NKP colors![:D]

Hey, I agree. I was only joking. I can't stand wearing hats backwards, either! I'm a Michigander and proud of it. No ghetto hear (atleast I thought there was none till I went to Detriot[;)]) But, repainting locos in thier old rold scheme does sound interesting. I wish modern roads would do more of that.[:(]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Metro,

Another thing I find amazing is that you never (very rarely) see a container or trailer (TOFC) painted with graffiti; just fixed cars like boxcars, hoppers and reefers.

dharmon,

I like your "weathering"

Dave Vergun

Actually, yesterday I spent a couple of hours down by the tracks. I did see some on some containers and semi trailers, but much less than on the cars themselves. I think this says something about railroads, and how the cars themselves move, or rather don't move for longer periods.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Metro,

Another thing I find amazing is that you never (very rarely) see a container or trailer (TOFC) painted with graffiti; just fixed cars like boxcars, hoppers and reefers.

dharmon,

I like your "weathering"

Dave Vergun

Sorry Dave , I forgot to say thanks.

I think the choice of mediums is a function of where types of cars are left unattended. I have seen trailers and containers that have been tagged, but I have a feeling that was done while not on the rails. Intermodals tend to not sit around in yards or sidings for too long and the IM terminals are usually gated and guarded.

Dan

[Roadtrp]

[swg][swg][swg][swg][swg]

-Jerry

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Metro,

Another thing I find amazing is that you never (very rarely) see a container or trailer (TOFC) painted with graffiti; just fixed cars like boxcars, hoppers and reefers.

dharmon,

I like your "weathering"

Dave Vergun

If you look closely at the hopper on the left...some jack@$$ wrote his name there is big block letters....[:)]

[FJ and G]

Metro,

Another thing I find amazing is that you never (very rarely) see a container or trailer (TOFC) painted with graffiti; just fixed cars like boxcars, hoppers and reefers.

dharmon,

I like your "weathering"

Dave Vergun

[Javern]

yes it's illegal but likely will NEVER cease to be around, it's part of railroad history and lore, I think it's ok for those of us that model and enjoy it.

[dharmon]

Elliot,

That's some nice work you did pulling editing the photos to make decals. I agree with you that if you remove it from it's medium it can be art, just as any number of other things.....It's the choice of canvas that makes it distasteful. Alot of misdirected energy.

As far as graffiti goes though...like it or not it's a fixture on modern RRs. Decal companies are making graffiti slides that adorn some of my cars. Not as art but as a reflection of how cars look today. I think of it as a part of the weathering for some of my stock. Here's two examples from my own "fleet" and I have others that have been tagged....and I'm planning to do more.

[METRO]

Well regardless of the moral/ethical argument, I think that the photos are a great Idea and I'm gonna start scanning some from my colection.

I also have some magazines with some absolutely amazing graf in them and I'm gonna make decals out of those too.

The one big question I have always had with the graf is how do the artist/vandal/whatevers find a car that is parked in one place long enough to paint them without getting caught?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Lets call our group, Model Railroaders in the Hood.

dav

How about "Ghetto Model Railroaders". Count me in, it'll be fun! It's illegal, but fun! So I guess it'd be illegal fun. But how can fun be illegal?[:0][?]................[:p]

We'll be walkin' in the backstreet alleys of East St. Louis or South LA or maybe even Queens, New York, packing Colt 45's, wearing our hats backwards, repainting NS locomotives in Wabash or NKP paint....[:D][8D][;)][:p][}:)][:)]

Sorry, 4884BigBoy, but I'm a Country Boy now and forever!

And I can't stand wearing a hat backwards[xx(], in fact the only thing I wrote that I would support would be NS repainting it's roster in WABASH and NKP colors![:D]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Don't worry guys, I have very thick skin. If I didn't think I could take the heat, I wouldn't bother to discuss it.

Really, this topic isn't about the graffiti as much as it is about capturing images in the real world using a digital camera, and transfering them to models, through some medium run through your printer.

In this case the graffiti happens to be my image of choice, but this technique works well for other things, like logos or building windows. I have even done houses using a similar method where a photo of a house was laminated onto plexiglass, and the windows were cut out by hand, and the flat building lighted. The houses were done the old fashioned way on photo paper, and were expensive. I'm dreaming of what I could do with today's technology.

Just because you aren't interested in the images I've posted here this time, doesn't mean that there isn't something of value to be learned. I am working on other things beside graffiti.

As I was driving down the freeway today, I saw a semi trailer that was basicly a Marine recruitment billboard. If I hadn't been going 70 MPH, and had had a good shot, I would have captured that image too.[swg]

[AntonioFP45]

Sorry guys,

But Ghetto?!!! Why are we glorifying the "Ghetto"? I lived in it a few years. My mother was mugged one year and my dad's car was stolen (later recovered).[B)]

Many of us spend so much energy trying to get across to young people that there is absolutely nothing cool about the ghetto, graffitti and the "nuances" associated with it!

Stands to reason that a number of the young people reading these threads are going to use this to justify the "ghetto" life, and spraying "art" (graffitti) on freight cars as a cool way to spend time. Even integrate it as part of their model railroading. Yes, it's everywhere, but now it seems that; intentionally or not, it's being encouraged on the Model Railroader Forum!![V]

Sorry guys, you've been wonderful responding to my other posts, but this one really cuts deeper than you realize if you really thing about it. Liberal "while-washing" does not help our influential younger generation at all!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Lets call our group, Model Railroaders in the Hood.

dav

How about "Ghetto Model Railroaders". Count me in, it'll be fun! It's illegal, but fun! So I guess it'd be illegal fun. But how can fun be illegal?[:0][?]................[:p]

[Anonymous]

Now now guys... [:D]

You must remember that this is a model railroader forum for people to come on and express Ideas.

What I am saying is: Don't flame the guy just because he brings up the idea of Graffiti.

If you look at a prototype railroad (Like my area, and I don't live in a big city!) There is graffiti everywere on these cars! Boxcars appear to be a favorite. flatcars tend to not get any. The only ones to not get any graffiti would be new cars and locomotives (Because of the people present on the loco.

If it make any of you feel better, a guy trying to put some graffiti on the roof of a commuter train stood up and got fried by the overhead wires. Happy now?

[FJ and G]

The heyaday of graffiti art on the NY transit was from 1971 to 1986; the Golden Age, if you will. I think you will gain an appreciation or at least a certain respect for this artform if you do a quick read of this history of art on the following website; then look at a picture on the next website. I quit riding the NY subways in 1969 and moved upstate, missing that Golden Age, so my memory is of just plain grimy subway cars, nice in their own way, but without the graffiti, thus, like most of you, my bias is for graffiti-free cars.

However, if you look at some of the artwork, like Elliot has displayed, I think that at the very least, you will recognize some talent, wasted perhaps, but talent nonetheless:

History of graffiti
http://www.daveyd.com/historyofgraf.html

Transit art in the Bronx:
http://photoarts.com/cooper/graffiti/artvstransit.html

Dave Vergun