Unless one is handicapped (arthritis and such), is in a big rush to slap down some track, or knows such a task would be completely unenjoyable, I recommend hand laying the track. Length of time in the hobby shouldn't be a factor. Experience is gained by doing, not from letting time pass. Expect the first couple of turnouts to be rough and for practice.
Mark
Allegheny2-6-6-6 I have to disagree with those who are suggesting the O/P hand lay his turnouts and possibly his track. A relatively easy undertaking for those of you who have years of experience under your belt but it sounds and correct me if I'm wrong that if this is not his first layout he's not as seasoned a layout builder as those of you who are suggesting he hand lay. Nothing wrong with it but not something that should even be undertaken by those of us on the more novice scale.I even know work class builders who won't touch the stuff,
I have to disagree with those who are suggesting the O/P hand lay his turnouts and possibly his track. A relatively easy undertaking for those of you who have years of experience under your belt but it sounds and correct me if I'm wrong that if this is not his first layout he's not as seasoned a layout builder as those of you who are suggesting he hand lay. Nothing wrong with it but not something that should even be undertaken by those of us on the more novice scale.I even know work class builders who won't touch the stuff,
Let me join the chorus of those who disagree with your premise. In 1975, I started my first layout. Having a hobby budget of $20/month, and having burned two months worth of budget on the lumber and Homasote for the 4x8, handlaid track was the only viable option. I had helped my Dad on 2 sectional track layouts that had a few pieces of flex track as a teenager. My kit experience was a Silver Streak plastic reefer with extra details. My locomotive building included slapping a Roundhouse Climax superstructure on an RTR boxcab diesel chassis, and painting the cab roof red. I had zero metal working experience, and limited soldering experience from helping my Dad and some electrical engineering class labs. There were no videos or jigs back then; my assistance was a Jack Work article in Model Railroader. Despite being such a novice my first handlaid track and turnouts were quite successful. It just isn't rocket science. Handlaid track requires some patience and determination to fix anything that's not spot on. And these are qualities that are needed to lay reliable commercial track, too (meaning no derailments caused by track).
that being said until recently I didn't realize how much of a difference there is in the profile of track manufactured by different companies. If you were to take a piece of Micro engineer flex track and a piece of Atlas and put them under a magnifying glass you will see a distinct difference between the two. That not to say that you can't mix and match them. Many people do exactly that but when it comes to turnouts you will need to do some shimming or tweaking her and there to get them to work perfectly. I had to place . styrene shims under my Walthers turnouts to get them to align with the Atlas track no biggie if you know in advance you have to do that but when you don't trust me you really start scratching your head. If you want to keep things "simple" keep tracks and turnouts the same. I will say though that I do feel Walthers Shinohara are the best for commercial one's on the market.
To me, doing what it takes to match different brands of track and sizes of rail is no big deal, and is just part of track laying. But I can see where it could be disconcerting if you weren't expecting the mismatches.
Turnouts appear to be a good example of the project results triangle - good, fast, and cheap; pick any two, and in government work you may only get one.
Handlaid will give up the fast, but will have the best results in the other two areas. My production of handlaid turnouts was one per two evenings of about 2 hours each. This was from bare Homasote to fully ballasted and weathered, fully wired, with throw mechanism installed, using only hand tools and no jigs. I did not rush as I had a small layout; others may be faster. Using the Fast Tracks jigs may take some time off, but honestly the fabrication of parts is only a small part of the overall turnout building process. Keep in mind the same is true for commercial turnouts. Turnout fabrication is only a portion of the process - ballasting, weathering, wiring, installation of turnout throws will all take as long or longer than with the handlaid-in-place turnout where many of these tasks are performed prior to laying the rails. And time to make adjustments to the commercial turnout itself needs to be factored in, too - very few commercial turnouts consistently require no adjustments of any kind.
Atlas turnouts are reasonably priced. But their plastic cast components make them ugly compared to my handlaid turnouts. Atlas turnouts tend to be a little sloppy in their tolerances, and get worse with age. With properly gauged wheels, they are pretty reliable for the 1st decade in my experience. Since I model an early era with small locomotives and still use DC, the Atlas insulated frogs are a drawback.
Shinohara turnouts are step up in looks, but still not quite as good as handlaid, IMHO. I prefer their narrower tolerances (compared to Atlas) and sturdier construction. Their powered frogs (I have older style Shinohara in HO and HOn3 code 70) and power routing are an advantage to me, but may be a detriment to the DCC user. Their price isn't much higher than Atlas at my LHS.
I have not used any other brand of commercial turnout.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Allegheny2-6-6-6 I have to disagree with those who are suggesting the O/P hand lay his turnouts and possibly his track. A relatively easy undertaking for those of you who have years of experience under your belt but it sounds and correct me if I'm wrong that if this is not his first layout he's not as seasoned a layout builder as those of you who are suggesting he hand lay. Nothing wrong with it but not something that should even be undertaken by those of us on the more novice scale....
I have to disagree with those who are suggesting the O/P hand lay his turnouts and possibly his track. A relatively easy undertaking for those of you who have years of experience under your belt but it sounds and correct me if I'm wrong that if this is not his first layout he's not as seasoned a layout builder as those of you who are suggesting he hand lay. Nothing wrong with it but not something that should even be undertaken by those of us on the more novice scale....
I would disagree with you entirely. I hand layed all of the track on my second layout, and I've only been in the hobby about two years.
Just because someone is new to the hobby, doesn't mean by default they are incompetent.
The OP originally mentioned that he wanted smooth running turnouts. In my limited, new to the hobby experience, hand laying is the way to go, and is a lot more fun than just gluing down flex track.
I'm trying to model 1956, not live in it.
Why wait for the next layout? I had never built a locomotive but that did not stop me from buying and building my first Bowser some thirty years ago. It still runs great today. How can one gain experience in any thing unless one tries to do it? I have never hand laid track until a few months ago. I really enjoy it more so than seeing my modules with the terrible looking flex track and over size rail. If the OP starts with hand laid he or she will gain in experience and knowledge that they can do it and it would be a source of pride and accomplishment.
This is my first home layout since I was a child. I started with Lionel 027. Switched to HO as a teen and thirty years of no layout I joined a modular group. The group standard in building modules is code 100 rail and Peco turnouts on the 3 mains. My first module had Peco turnouts from the mains and Shinohara on the sidings and industry lines. After the first module season the Shinohara was ripped out and replaced with Peco. Seven modules and 8 years the Pecos are still going strong. There is no more difficult duty than modules. Temperature and humidity swings and battered and banged around in rain and snow is tougher than any home layout.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I have to disagree with those who are suggesting the O/P hand lay his turnouts and possibly his track. A relatively easy undertaking for those of you who have years of experience under your belt but it sounds and correct me if I'm wrong that if this is not his first layout he's not as seasoned a layout builder as those of you who are suggesting he hand lay. Nothing wrong with it but not something that should even be undertaken by those of us on the more novice scale.I even know work class builders who won't touch the stuff, that being said until recently I didn't realize how much of a difference there is in the profile of track manufactured by different companies. If you were to take a piece of Micro engineer flex track and a piece of Atlas and put them under a magnifying glass you will see a distinct difference between the two. That not to say that you can't mix and match them. Many people do exactly that but when it comes to turnouts you will need to do some shimming or tweaking her and there to get them to work perfectly. I had to place . styrene shims under my Walthers turnouts to get them to align with the Atlas track no biggie if you know in advance you have to do that but when you don't trust me you really start scratching your head. If you want to keep things "simple" keep tracks and turnouts the same. I will say though that I do feel Walthers Shinohara are the best for commercial one's on the market.
"Tomikawa" Chuck makes an excellent point!! I highly recommend handlaying both track and turnouts. For one thing, it gives you more hobby "bang for the buck." Yeah, it takes longer to get the track laid, and you do have to purchase ties and stain (several colors), spikes, rail and at least THREE track guages. But the cash outlay is similar and the end product, if you start learning slowly, paying attention to what you are doing and trying to achieve the most meticulous job you can muster, will be better looking and smoother operating .... and you will have had more fun for your cash outlay. (And you will look at it and be proud!) I've been handlaying for more than a few of years now and I can now "fly" along at a pretty good clip once I get going.
The turnouts flow like butter ... a train really snakes through my turnouts - no sudden lurches to the side. O.K., so I'm not totally sure if some of them are #5 or #5 1/2 or 5 3/4, but the are reliable, smoothly operating and they look awesome. And I just build them when I get there -- continuous rail straight through the stock rails.
Really, guys ... it's worth the shot to learn how to do it. (I started because I had time and very little money but wanted to build. Sometimes valuable skills are learned because of a totally unrelated situation!
I encourage you to try it. There have been several good step-by-step article series written in Model Railroader on the "How-To" over the years. Look them up.
BiL Marsland (P5se Camelback) Lehigh Susquehanna & Western Northeastern Pennsylvania Coal Hauler All Camelback Steam Roster!! "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others" -- George Orwell, Animal Farm, Chpt. 10
Here's an easy way to make your own turnouts with Central Valley tie templates.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
For what it's worth, I'd like to echo Chuck's and Crandall's suggestions - handlay your own. Once you sort it out how, there's no going back, and it can be less expensive overall, especially given the quality of the trackwork you can produce..
There are other options beside Fast trax jigs. Try CVT and Proto 87 stores and also Railway engineering.
http://www.cvmw.com/
http://www.proto87.com/
http://www.railwayeng.com/turnouts.htm
I have started using the CVT switch kits and making my own frogs using code 70 and code 55 rail. I also solder a thin wire to the cast brass points to the diverging rails. Each one takes about 2 hours detailed right down to the joint bars and painted. The first one took about 3 hours but it was a learning experience. Proto 87 has a special $10 turnouts going now with a $100 minimum. They use the CVT ties and it comes with rail and frog. I have about 25 turnouts built and tested and waiting for the benchwork to be done.
Thank you all for your responses... handlaying track scares me but after looking at fast tracks, seems like a viable option. I will do some more homework.
Hand lay or Peco.
Regarding Atlas's code 83 track it is .017" taller than just about everyone elses, so that it has the same top of rail to bottom of tie dimension as code 100 track.
tomikawaTTIf you are truly interested in having a large quantity of quality turnouts, I would recommend taking the time and putting out the effort needed to learn how to hand-lay your own...
I took the liberty of quoting Chuck and adding a word that wasn't there originally...it's in bold.
I agree entirely. It may seem like a dark jungle to contemplate, but I watched some on-line videos showing how to make turnouts, and the rest was history for me. Really, and truly, if you are going to be in the market for more than about 10 turnouts of any one type, it would be worth learning how to make your own. You'll save hundreds of dollars and you will learn a technique that will have you almost limitless in what you can do in the way of track plans.
If you are hard and fast on commercial, I know the Walthers/Shinohara turnouts and the Peco Code 83 "Streamline" Insulfrog versions. I like them both enough to recommend them, with a slight nod in favour of the Peco. One caveat, and it's a doozy: beware the W/S curved turnouts. No matter what they advertise in the way of the inner curvature, subtract about 15% of the claimed radius figure for safety.
-Crandell
I have used many of the commercial turnouts and finally got fed up with them and started hand laying mine with the Fast Tracks tools. They are simple to make and become cost effective with the more that you make. Since you are going to be needing many this seems like the way to go. If I had to do it all over that is what I would have done in the first place.
Mike
If you are truly interested in having a quantity of quality turnouts, I would recommend taking the time and putting out the effort needed to learn how to hand-lay your own. Since you are the quality control agent, the finished product will have to meet YOUR specifications, and you can get the 'makin's' of a hand-laid turnout (less switch machine) for the approximate cost of one length of Atlas flex.
There have been a number of threads in the past about methods, jigs and such, so I'm not going to go into that here. What I will say is that handlaying turnouts is not rocket science. Even this arthritic old coot can do it. All that's required is patience, and a willingness to toss any part that falls short of near perfection. Just set your, "Good enough," bar high enough. Before you know it you'll be assembling yard throats on curves and other examples of specialwork that can't be bought at any price from your friendly vendor.
You might even find out that it's fun!
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on Atlas flex with hand-laid turnouts)
I'll pass on the which one is better part of the question. But just so you know, even though both the Atlas and Walthers turnouts are code 83 the ties on the Walthers turnouts are thinner by somewhere around 0.025 inch. So you'll have to shim the Walthers turnouts to get them to the proper elevation to join the Atlas track.
I am at the track laying stage in building my HO layout. I plan on using DCC. I am looking for insights into the differences between the various turnout options. Obviously, there is a big difference in price between Atlas and Walther for example... I am looking for quality but will needing quantity ---- what is best for DCC purposes? I am planning on using Code 83 flex track and have purchased it from Atlas at this point if that makes a difference.