Question On Rail Service For A Tannery

[Anonymous]

So much for breakfast.

[BR60103]

Tom:
There was an article a few years ago in Branchline (Bytown Railway Society) about the tannery in Acton, Ont.
The article told about the trip disposing of the bits of meat/fat that had to be removed from the hides. There would be a couple of carloads of this stuff move about a hundred miles. The load would be rotten and maggoty and slightly liquid. I think it moved in some sort of wooden gondolas. (I'm doing this from memory.)
Now there would be a modelling job!

[tomwatkins]

Thanks again to everyone for the information. I've learned a lot and I really appreciate it.

Bill Mathewson, please let me know what you find out about the rendering plant. Sounds very interesting.

Again, thanks to everyone,
Tom Watkins

[FJ and G]

Tom,

I took pictures of FJ&G, which made it on a website: http://www.ginosrailpage.com/railpage1.html

I don't know how much leather you will see in this cool website, but you can see some very colorful diesels.

Interestingly, the BNSF railroad later stole their colors to make its famous pumpkin scheme. Trainmaster's FM also used the FJ&G's colors. FJ&G dieselized early, around 1945 with 2 S-2 diesels.

Dave Vergun

[FJ and G]

Tom, Bill,

I grew up in Gloversville NY & still can recall the nice smell of leather tannery. Some people in North Carolina sold them cheaper and around the 1960s, operations declines so that today, they are a shell of their former selves and anyway, the FJ&G is gone forever, except in my forum name and in the Summer Classic Trains 04 magazine

Yes, I recall the tank cars w/chemicals and boxcars full of skins. I don't really remember any other type of cars used. Many of the tanneries were located next to the Cayudetta Creek, which ran right beside the FJ&G for about 10 miles from Gloversville to Fonda, with a few places that diverged.

The tanneries used to dump their waste chemicals into the creek; and there weren't many fish in it; but we used to catch crayfish under the rocks in the creek and wade in the dirty water.

Now, I understand, much of the leatherwares are made in the Philippines. Sorry couldn't be of any more help than that. But you did bring back some memories.

BTW, the twin city, Johnstown, also produced leather. At one time, the tannin was made from trees in the area, in fact, so many trees were cut down that at one time, Gloversville was called "Stump City."

dave Vergun

[88gta350]

woohoo! That last reply gave me a star!! I feel so much better about myself now! [:-^]

[88gta350]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cacole

Wouldn't there also be a lot of bulk salt used in the tanning process? I toured a seal tannery in St. Louis, MO way back in the middle 1960's and seem to remember that a lot of coarse salt was used in the process to dry the hides. That salt was brought in by the boxcar load in burlap gunny sacks.

There definately should be salt. If I remember what I've read and heard from the hunters at work correctly, the hide is soaked in salt water before anything is done with it.

[Anonymous]

Tom-

There is a 'rendering' plant somewhere close to, or in Canton, GA, according to some area modelers. I'm checking into it and will let you know. This would provide a fairly close source of traffic from the L&N's Hook & Eye Line to your Southern's Murphy Branch. My understanding is that the facility really stinks from the processing. I'll follow my nose and try to locate it. It's supposed to be located along the Georgia Northeastern RR, although I'm not sure if it is served by rail

Another point alluded to by 'jrbarney' re: a tanning operation in Endicott, NY, that I'd like to elaborate on - I spent my high school years in the Mohawk Valley region of upstate NY, and there was a tanning operation upstream on Saquoit (sp?) Creek which flowed fairly close to our home; (it would have been considered a river in other regions of the US because of it's water volume, width, depth, etc.). The color of the water would often range from light to dark brown, and various reds and almost purples. I don't remember it smelling particularly. Apparantly, whenever the tannery changed colors, they just dumped the raw solvents into the creek. From digging back into the back corner of my brain-approx 40 years back-I remember that the banks along the creek were often stained from the tanning process, and depending upon the water level in the creek at the time a particular color dye was being used, a "bathtub ring" was left as a telltale. This creek flowed north into the Mohawk River eventually. There were far more tanning operations further East in the Mohawk Valley in the Gloversville, NY area, not too far from Albany, NY

You might contact the NEB&W located in RPI in Troy, NY that has authentically researched and constructed a fantastic HO system on the campus. Tanning, leather goods, shoes, etc. was an important upstate NY industry fifty years ago, and perhaps they can link you to more specific industry/operations information.

Hope this of value to you. . .
BILL

[jrbarney]

Tom,
The article Dan mentioned is cited in the Index of Magazines as follows:

Burlington Northern hide boxcars, Railroad Model Craftsman, November 1993, page 70 ( BN, BOXCAR, HIDE, KITBASH, "MICHAELS, G.J. JR.", CONSTRUCTION, FREIGHTCAR, RMC )

In Endicott, New York, the scraps from shoe making at the Endicott Johnson factories were dumped in an empty lot, later paved over as a parking lot for a KMart. The leachings from the chrome tanned leathers polluted the local water aquifers. This was pre-EPA.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[cacole]

Wouldn't there also be a lot of bulk salt used in the tanning process? I toured a seal tannery in St. Louis, MO way back in the middle 1960's and seem to remember that a lot of coarse salt was used in the process to dry the hides. That salt was brought in by the boxcar load in burlap gunny sacks.

[tomwatkins]

Thank you all very much for the information. It's very useful. I hadn't considered that the cars hauling the untanned hides wouldn't be useable for anything else. That gives me a reason to build some really beat up 36' wood sided cars serving out their last days. Cool !

Thanks Again,
Tom Watkins

[Anonymous]

I misread the topic as "Question On Rail Service For A Tranny."

[:D] [oops]

[AltonFan]

There was an article in Railroad Model Craftsman about kitbashing boxcars for hide service. Among the points made:

-cars used for hide service were unsuitable for any other use.
-hides were loaded through hatches cut in the roof, and unloaded through the side doors.
-outdated cars were often used for this service.

[jrbarney]

Tom,
The only "hit" in the Index of Magazines was the following:
Modeling A Pennsylvania Tannery, Light Iron Digest, August/September 1999, page 14 ( "KEITH, DAVID", STRUCTURE, TANNERY, LID )
The LID is a bi-monthly and their Web site is:
http://www.lightirondigest.com
their Email address is:
[e-mail]
They also publish a periodical about the Maine 2 foot railroads. Suggest you inquire about the back issue or a photocopy of the article, it may have something of use. If they can't provide a copy, try the NMRA's Kalmbach Memorial Library.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Anonymous]

Tomwatkins,

I have had experience on the road with the "Meat Triangle" that includes Ft. Morgan Colorado, Plainview Tx and Liberal Kansas. This area is probably the main meat processing for most of the United Utates. As a Driver, occasionally I have had the unsavory task of hauling hides to Mexico by way of Eagle Pass Tx.

These cattle gets slaughtered and processed in the same building. The guts and nervous structures (Brains etc) get sent to rendering for conversion into other products. Hides end up in a tanning facility near the main plant. There are a series of vats from one end of the building to the other. These hides spend some time "soaking" before being folded and loaded onto a flatbed. I had a "covered wagon" and could carry alot of hides odors and all.

The good hides get to stay in country for domestic uses ranging from Jackets to Boots. The "bad" (Not necessarily poor quality) got sent out of the country. After I deliver these hides I would have the trailer washed with strong soap and chemicals. And the next stop would be laundry.

I suppose a tannery can have a occasional box car of linen for a laundry place, soap and such (Borax?) and the cars used to carry hides were kind of the "Bottom of the barrel" and not suitable for other service. Tank cars can be used to ship out wastes and byproducts of the tanning process. (Interchange em out to a distant rendering plant?) This is usually a close part of the meat packing plants.

I recall the drivers who had the task of delivering to the rendering plants had to keep their rigs very very clean and "TIGHT" hence wash racks may be provided to clean your cars. It was really upsetting to the Law Enforcement if any material was to "Drip" onto a state scalehouse.

I think the cars can return from interchange and deliver feeds and such to the local "elevator" for agriculture and return to the tannery to begin the process over again.

I hope this information is of value, I myself do not yet know the exact values of various loads that come and go from these places yet. But I learned for example that some 2700 cattle a day could be slaughtered in a large packing plant.

[tomwatkins]

One of the industries I'm going to include on my layout is a large tannery which operated in Andrews, NC for several decades. I'd like input on what types of materials would have gone in and out to a tannery by rail. Chemicals would have come in by tank car, untanned hides by boxcar, bark either in gondolas or bundled on flat cars and finished hides shipped out by boxcar. That's what I know or suspect at this point, but I'd appreciate additional information on alternatives or additions to incoming materials and any byproducts which could be shipped out.
Thanks,
Tom Watkins